Plane Crash La Ronge

rigpiggy · Post by **rigpiggy** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 6:26 am

otter fan
Post subject: Re: Plane Crash La Ronge
New post Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 3:28 pm
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Cat Driver
I hate your posts and stopped reading them years ago.

Cheers[/quote]

TROLL!!!!!!!

flyinthebug · Post by **flyinthebug** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:44 am

True rig..But even trolls should show SOME respect!
Fly safe all.

otter fan · Post by **otter fan** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 1:02 pm

cat driver

My comment was rude. Sorry for the disrespect.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 1:22 pm

otter fan, no problem.

In the grand scheme of life these things are not really a big deal.

If everyone agreed with and liked everything everyone else said life would be boring as hell.

Hyster · Post by **Hyster** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 5:45 pm

Dont be sorry Otterfan, the reason I stopped coming to this site is because every decent thread gets ambushed by Cat Driver and his cronnies. I only check in to see whats happening in Canada from time to time. FlyTheBug I think your comment that the CP and Twest have been working hard to improve safety is weak considering they average one serious accident per year. And that was since I worked there 10 years ago. Now everyone please tell me I should be nice to Cat and how wise he is.

Wasnt Santana the hot court party girl? Glad everyone is OK.

flyinthebug · Post by **flyinthebug** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 9:06 pm

Hyster.. I did withdraw my comment about the current CP.

I didnt suggest you or anyone "need to be nice" to Cat.. All I suggested is to show some respect to a man that has the wealth of experience and knowledge that he has. He has forgotten more about this industry, then many of us will learn over the next 25 years.

You dont have to like anyone.. But to say "hate" is disrespectful, distasteful & lacking any class. After all, we are professionals correct?. So if respect doesnt work for you, perhaps some professional courtesy? Thats all I was asking. I could give a rats ass who likes me or not on here..But wouldnt even you agree Hyster that "hate" is a strong word? Theres no room for that kind of personal attack..on whats supposed to be an anonymous forum (whether or not . chose to step out from his anonimity or not)

To me, it was a simple issue of respect for someone thats seen more in our industry then most ever do or will.

Fly safe all.

Hyster · Post by **Hyster** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 10:16 pm

This is exactly what I mean, I didnt want a lesson in respecting our elders. This is why I HATE this forum, it always turns into Cat Driver hijacking a topic and recanting some old story that may or may not be true, someone like otterfan voicing his frustration, then guys like FTB coming to Cats rescue. I say we make a separate forum for CatDriver, and the rest of us can get down to the business of starting rumours and making speculations.

Now, I and many others only want to know what happened to this aircraft and if Santana was the good looking one or not.

Four1oh · Post by **Four1oh** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 10:22 pm

the backbone of this forum was built on speculation and armchair quarterbacking, and talk of hot chicks...

mattedfred · Post by **mattedfred** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:42 pm

Hyster wrote:and if Santana was the good looking one or not.

whatever floats your boat

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 9:51 am

Hyster is on to something here and maybe Joe should consider splitting this forum up.

So lets examine what Hyster is really saying.

This is exactly what I mean, I didnt want a lesson in respecting our elders. This is why I HATE this forum,

For sure having respect for others seems to be quite an acceptable trait, but will that really work if a pilot moves up into the airline sector of flying?

it always turns into Cat Driver hijacking a topic and recanting some old story that may or may not be true,

Interesting thought process being put forward here, so lets examine this a little closer.

A thread can be hijacked for sure and I admit I have that talent.

As to the same old story that should be broken down into two parts.

(1) Is the story related to aviation and does it have any real impact on how aviation is being regulated?

(2) If the story is untrue why do those who the story is about allow untruths to be continually spread around the industry?

someone like otterfan voicing his frustration, then guys like FTB coming to Cats rescue. I say we make a separate forum for CatDriver, and the rest of us can get down to the business of starting rumours and making speculations.

I really don't wan't nor need my own forum.

However for those who wish to spend all their time speculating and spreading rumors there is already such a forum.....Misc. / Political Debate / Aviation Humor.

There you go Hyster think about the above and skip my posts......unless of course you have some proof that what I post about how the industry is managed is false.

If you can prove what I say is false you really should do something about that.

torquey401 · Post by **torquey401** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 10:27 am

TWA wrecked another airplane. This is my shocked face!

Not the first one, won't be the last. At least no one was killed this time.

Widow · Post by **Widow** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 11:46 am

Plane crash survivor credits quick-thinking crew

By Luke Simcoe,
The StarPhoenix
February 7, 2009

A northern Saskatchewan court clerk was back at work less than 48 hours after she walked away from a "horrifying" plane crash in La Ronge.

"I went back in today and met with the other survivors," Tessa Santana said in an interview Friday. "We had a chance to say what we had to say, grieve a bit and be thankful."

Santana was one of five provincial court members on board a Transwest Air flight that crashed into the bush shortly after taking off from the La Ronge airport on Wednesday.

Moments after leaving the runway, the plane began to veer sharply to the right.

"I looked at the pilot and he was pulling up with all his might," Santana said. "It was almost like the engine was failing because we didn't have the power to get up."

The plane, a DHC-6 Twin Otter, was destined for Deschambault Lake.

The pilot was able to land the plane in some nearby bush. Neither the crew nor any of the court members suffered any serious injuries, but the plane lost a wing and a propeller in the crash.

After checking on the other passengers, Santana noticed the bush underneath the plane had caught fire. The main door was jammed, so those on board had to rush out via the plane's emergency exit.

Santana says a Crown prosecutor fell out of the plane while trying to disembark.

"He's pretty sore, but nothing seems to be broken," she said.

A court clerk in La Ronge for 13 years, Santana says flying is part of her job. She averages about three flights a week across northern Saskatchewan.

Santana credits her survival to the quick thinking of the Transwest crew, as well as the size of the Twin Otter aircraft. The passengers and crew may not have lived had they had been in a smaller plane, she says.

Twin Otters were manufactured by de Havilland Canada between 1966 and 1988. The 20-passenger, twin-engine planes are popular among bush pilots and many of them are still operating throughout northern Canada, says Transwest spokesperson Debbie Wrightson.

"In terms of bush planes, the Twin Otter is viewed as one of the safest," she said.

According to its serial number, the plane that crashed in La Ronge was only the eighth Twin Otter to ever roll off of the de Havilland production line.

Wrightson defended the 40-year-old plane and said Transwest maintains all of its aircraft in accordance with Transport Canada safety protocols.

"We wouldn't have them in the air if they weren't safe," she said.

Transport Canada last inspected Transwest's maintenance programs on Nov. 3, 2008. According to spokesperson Andrea Rudniski, "there were no findings that had an immediate impact on flight safety."

Investigators from the Transportation Safety Board are on scene in La Ronge examining the wreckage and interviewing witnesses. Their findings will help determine the cause of the crash.

http://www.thestarphoenix.com/Plane+cra ... story.html

xsbank · Post by **xsbank** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 12:07 pm

Remember that old Air West TO that had a flap fail on final into the harbour? Corrosion, I believe. Wonder if that happened here? Or engine failure with too much flap?

Are TOs ever flown single pilot?

ilovelamp · Post by **ilovelamp** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 12:40 pm

"A little bird that only migrates to YVC in the summer assures me that the screaming, impatient, swearing, belittling, hand-hitting style of training from the dark ages continues in YVC but now it is accent neutral. An added bonus for people new to the airplane .... the excersizes for a training flight are never pre-planned or assigned, and only under rare circumstances are you pre or post flight briefed.

The "airborne only" training program consists of playing "129 questions" to find your weaknesses and show the training pilot's superiority. Sayings like "I hope I don't have to pablum fed you around here" are always a guaranteed motivator, as is "If you were a decent pilot, you'd be picking this up faster ... you saw it done when we flew at the beginning of last week on your first flight."

I too was a victim of this type of training there, Thought it was my flying skills. It was only when I moved on to another operator did I realise that the trainer was the culprit. Dont know whats going on now, but I sure hope it has improved.

I know most of the TO crews at TWA..competent guys with lots of common sense. Hope they are not hanging there heads.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 2:33 pm

"A little bird that only migrates to YVC in the summer assures me that the screaming, impatient, swearing, belittling, hand-hitting style of training from the dark ages continues in YVC but now it is accent neutral. An added bonus for people new to the airplane .... the excersizes for a training flight are never pre-planned or assigned, and only under rare circumstances are you pre or post flight briefed.

The "airborne only" training program consists of playing "129 questions" to find your weaknesses and show the training pilot's superiority. Sayings like "I hope I don't have to pablum fed you around here" are always a guaranteed motivator, as is "If you were a decent pilot, you'd be picking this up faster ... you saw it done when we flew at the beginning of last week on your first flight."

If true, which I suspect the above is I wonder what Hyster thinks of that kind of training?

Quite frankly I think it is so unacceptable any training pilot who acts like that should have their pilots license revoked permanently.

Is it really possible for such a gong show to operate in this century?

flyinthebug · Post by **flyinthebug** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 3:00 pm

Cat, I can name 4 training Capt`s off the top of my head that have that mentality. Yes, sad but true. On the positive side of this, for every bad one I can name 3 good ones.

It does occur and I want to reiterate for clarity that my comments on the improvements I witnessed from 2000-2005 at TWA seemed to be substantial. They lost two key managers in 05 who were both great "people persons" including a CP that barked on occasion.. but only when he needed to. If things have taken steps backwards, and that is what some have suggested in this thread alone.. then im sorry for TWA. It is encouraging that most seem to agree the -6 crews in YVC is still a good group.

I think the crew on this flight did a great job!

Hyster.. Respect is something that you shouldnt need me or anyone on this site to explain to you. It just is. And just an FYI, Cat and I have had our share of disagreements on this site. We started arguing back in 03 and then the website was revamped and some of our disagreements are lost now. Regardless, if you take the time to truly understand what he has gone through.. only then will you take the time to respect him. I just didnt like the word HATE.. Its too strong for a f*cking public forum! If you hate his posts, then do what lil suggested and add him to your "foes" list and save your comments. Cat does have a following on here because he does more then rant about the "evil doers" at TC.. He infact answers MANY questions.. his stories are often informative and even humourous. I flew with him for one day on the coast back in the 90`s and he taught me how to fire up a DHC2 the "proper" way. Other then that, I have no personal connection to the man. I just thought he has EARNED our respect.. and even my right wing friend Old Fog Ducker shows respect .. even when he obviously disagrees with Cat on most everything. I have friends on the far right and even some on the far left (gulp) lol..Just show some professionalism for Christ sakes is all I asked.

Theres my 2nd and final lecture.

Is respect such a hard thing to show? If otter fan was at all sincere, kudos! That took some class.

Fly safe all
Cheers.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 3:47 pm

Flynthebug when I first started to post on the internet in these forums I had a very difficult time dealing with some of the replies that one gets from some posters.

At first I used to get all upset and responded in a manner that showed they they had gotten to me.

It did not take long to come to the simple conclusion I was allowing someone who was hiding behind a computer screen to aggrivate me.

I have to admit though that there are a few here who still manage to get me truly riled.

It is mostly the ones who appear to be TC or ex TC who make really ignorant statements such as I deserved what I got from Transport.

That fuckin type still manages to get me riled because they are exactly what is wrong in TCCA. Arrogant, ignorant, and devoid of any understanding of the duty their job entails.

Rudder Bug · Post by **Rudder Bug** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 5:26 pm

Is respect such a hard thing to show? If otter fan was at all sincere, kudos! That took some class.

Yes indeed and I appreciated Otter Fan's kind apologies to Cat. I yet have to dig in several thousands of postings to put together one of the greatest autobiography of a great Canadian aviator, Mr. . ..

The other bug

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 5:50 pm

Oh, Oh now you've gone and really made yourself a real target Rudder Bug..

How's the project coming along?

Rudder Bug · Post by **Rudder Bug** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 6:04 pm

Oh, Oh now you've gone and really made yourself a real target Rudder Bug

Hahaha I don't mind Cat!

Well things are going rather slow. Had to design a rudder cause I'm enlarging the vertical fin. It's on its way and getting there. I am building a garage in a couple months cause the little shed in the backyard is just good enough for the small components¸and the temperature isn't cooperating at all this winter.

I found some metal spars and a way to make an aluminum leading edge. Pretty happy with it. Another VJ-22 builder is sending me his sketch for wing tanks sitting through the drag wires. Well, all in all, my brain is racing day and night but I love it!

Still flying the oil patch every now and then to earn the plane and the bread.

What about you?

Gilles

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 6:40 pm

I'm involved in another career outside of aviation, we are setting up a business that involves building " empty nester's " homes away from civilization but close enough to get to a city to be able to get to hospitals etc. in an emergency. That was why the Husky was bought.

The homes will be hi tech and completely self sufficient and energy friendly..and expensive.

As to my Cub Project I have decided to forget putting it on floats now that I have the Husky Amphib. to fly.

So the Cub will be a Clipped Wing so I can do fun things with it.

By the way I appreciate your comments.

Rudder Bug · Post by **Rudder Bug** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 6:56 pm

I know we are hijacking the thread but its better than commenting about an incident we don't know f*all about!

Tell me about the clipped wings version, is it altering the take-off and climb performances much? I'm asking you because I can make my wings any lenght I want, with or without the round wing tips, which are said not to provide any lift...

I could cruise a little faster with less winspan but my lake is half a mile long. Hmmmmm

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 7:05 pm

Here you go Rudder Bug, this will give you a good idea on the subject.

http://home.xcountry.tv/~dann/id17.htm

Bottom line for your project is do not clip the wings the slight gain in airspeed is not worth the loss of take off performance from the water.

Rudder Bug · Post by **Rudder Bug** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 7:28 pm

Thanks ., that was exactly was I was looking for!

Back to the thread, would it be possible that one of the props went into reverse? I saw that happening to some friends while taxiing a 6 and I personally experienced a prop feathering itself right after landing.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 7:52 pm

I can't remember how the T.O. propellor governing system works, but I can't think of how it would be able to go into reverse at take off power with the power levers forward.

There however have been several T.O. crashes due to a flap failure on one side.

There is just not enough real information on this accident to even start to figure out what could have happened.