Ground turboprop aircraft, expert says

[mcrit]

Four1oh.....you are indeed correct.

[Four1oh]

Well then... he's proven a fool twice.

[W5]

This so-called expert (Hall) was a political appointee, and never an investigator.

[props ahead]

Ground all aircraft so everyone can travel by bus,car,train,boat because they are all proven 100% safe 100% of the time!
There is something missing here though courtesy of the Star. I just cant believe he would publicly say something that stupid.

[foxmoth]

Jeez, Hedley,
if we ground all aircraft so theirs no accidents, there would be no TSB, NTSB etc. Think of the jobloss!!!

[Joe Blow Schmo]

Looks like he runs a consulting company which, amongst other things, provides "expert testimony". Perhaps he's looking to make some money off of a few lawsuits.

[x-wind]

Interesting comment about heated wings vice de-ice boots though... eh?

Thoughts

[J31]

To put this in a sad perspective, in the last 5 days ………420 people have been killed in US car crashes since this Q400 went down. Are we up in arms about that?

[Big Pratt]

Probably has shares in a regional jet manufacturing company or an airline that only flies jets!!

More likely a vested interest in this little law firm:
http://www.nolan-law.com/

wow, considering his former job, you'd think he know his advice doesn't make any sense.

But considering his current job, it all makes perfect sense.
http://www.nolan-law.com/staff/attorneys/james-e-hall/

This so-called expert (Hall) was a political appointee, and never an investigator.

Otherwise known as a Washington insiders male reproductive organ suction applicator.

BP

[.......]

I fly the ATR and will bet that the Dash 8 will now have to go through all the icing bullshit that the ATR had to go through.

Not quite right... I was flying the ATR back then (have about 3000hrs on it) and if you remember correctly, the FAA did, in fact, GROUND the whole ATR fleet and TC followed suit. Hell, for about a year CRA were doing our skeds for us, and we were jumpseating on the DH8-300 to give them support.

Funny though, they're not talking about grounding a fleet of North American (Canadian) made aircraft although they suspect the same cause of accident.

[jamesbay]

Catch rate is based on a combination of airspeed and airfoil design,no? That's what would totally suprise me about this aircraft being of DeHavilland origin.

[wallypilot]

http://www.thestar.com/News/World/article/588565

Hall said aircraft with turboprop engines fly at slower speeds than jets, making it easier for ice to accumulate.

I am surprised no one has picked up on this comment yet. what a bafoon.

[1973-150L]

I fly the ATR and will bet that the Dash 8 will now have to go through all the icing bullshit that the ATR had to go through.

Not quite right... I was flying the ATR back then (have about 3000hrs on it) and if you remember correctly, the FAA did, in fact, GROUND the whole ATR fleet and TC followed suit. Hell, for about a year CRA were doing our skeds for us, and we were jumpseating on the DH8-300 to give them support.

Funny though, they're not talking about grounding a fleet of North American (Canadian) made aircraft although they suspect the same cause of accident.

Maybe perhaps the reason for this is because the NTSB feels at this point it is not a fault of the airplane, but loss of situational awareness? (i.e. letting the aircraft slow to the point of stall, then incorrect recovery?)

JMHO

[matrix]

The commuter plane slowed to an unsafe speed as it approached the airport, causing an automatic stall warning, these people said. The pilot pulled back sharply on the plane's controls and added power instead of following the proper procedure of pushing forward to lower the plane's nose to regain speed, they said. He held the controls there, locking the airplane into a deadly stall, they added.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1234929 ... malertNEWS

If this is the cause (seems likely now), then Hall should go crawl into a little hole and never come out. Or save face and come out publicly saying he was wrong, then go into his hole.

[airway]

"But this does not sound like anything related to the aircraft. This sounds like it is related to some other issues that have yet to come out."

Hall isn't the only one making questionable statments in this article. Nobody knows yet wether it is related to the aircraft or not. I'm sure that Deluce would be very happy if it didn't have anything to do with the aircraft (if that's even possible).

[.......]

I fly the ATR and will bet that the Dash 8 will now have to go through all the icing bullshit that the ATR had to go through.

Not quite right... I was flying the ATR back then (have about 3000hrs on it) and if you remember correctly, the FAA did, in fact, GROUND the whole ATR fleet and TC followed suit. Hell, for about a year CRA were doing our skeds for us, and we were jumpseating on the DH8-300 to give them support.

Funny though, they're not talking about grounding a fleet of North American (Canadian) made aircraft although they suspect the same cause of accident.

Maybe perhaps the reason for this is because the NTSB feels at this point it is not a fault of the airplane, but loss of situational awareness? (i.e. letting the aircraft slow to the point of stall, then incorrect recovery?)

JMHO

Wasn't it exactly the same thing that was suspected initially with the Roselawn accident? F/O alone in cockpit, Captain chatting in the back with the F/A, airplane flying into supercooled water droplets?

They grounded the whole fleet regardless and then found out what might have happened...

[200Above]

i believe this Gentleman is acting on emotions and not logic

[crazy_aviator]

Im thinking that the Q400 fleet should be grounded along with ALL pilots who fly the plane UNTIL it is verified whether the plane can be flown safely with stick pusher operating or with the ASI covered up OR whether the " Qualified " pilots are qualified to fly the plane without making any mistakes !! ( Am i starting to sound like a certain ex-ntsb investigator? )

[pointyertoes]

Im thinking that the Q400 fleet should be grounded along with ALL pilots who fly the plane UNTIL it is verified whether the plane can be flown safely with stick pusher operating or with the ASI covered up OR whether the " Qualified " pilots are qualified to fly the plane without making any mistakes !! ( Am i starting to sound like a certain ex-ntsb investigator? )

There is no way that such action would be justified. Hundreds of Q400s are being flown and have flown millions of hours in icing conditions. (I have accumulated a great deal of ice in this airplane and consider it the most capable turboprop to operate in these climates).
Why aren't all 777's grounded after multiple uncommanded (and unexplained) thrust rollbacks on the GE90 engine? (The BA incident leading to a very near catastrophe) Could it be because there is MUCH more financially at stake for Boeing and they have the PR budget of a small western country?
Come back when you have something intelligent to say.

[C-GPFG]

Hall said aircraft with turboprop engines fly at slower speeds than jets, making it easier for ice to accumulate. He was also critical of turboprop de-icing technology – air-filled rubber "boots" that expand and contract to dislodge ice, instead of the in-wing heaters used on jets to keep ice from forming.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't a faster airplane have a higher catch rate than a slower airplane? I don't feel like cracking the books to look it up...

Four1oh.....you are indeed correct.

I'd hate to see how quickly the ice use to build up on the SR-71.....kidding.

I'm not a jet guy...but that's only true up to about 350kts?

[mcrit]

I'm not a jet guy...but that's only true up to about 350kts?

You start to get enough aerodynamic heating at around M0.8-0.9 or so to burn off ice, but if you're doing that kind of speed you're not likely to be on approach. Best dude to ask about that is AuxBatOn, I think he mentioned something about burning off ice at around 450 kts.

[Ref Plus 10]

I'd ground an aircraft after it crashed too! At least until it's fixed

[IRAcontractor]

I wonder if it's the American way to try and get rid of FOREIGN products....I mean most large turboprops are NOT American built.....see where I am headed with this. Protectionists trying to ground foreign built turboprops, BUY American Built Jits only!