Outrageous

[Four1oh]

I can't believe this shit!

Mountie in Dziekanski death 'feared for my safety'
Article Comments
IAN BAILEY
Globe and Mail Update
February 23, 2009 at 2:40 PM EST
VANCOUVER — The first of four Mounties to testify about the confrontation that ended in the death of Robert Dziekanski after he was tasered at Vancouver Airport says he feared "for my safety to a certain degree" during the incident.

RCMP Constable Gerry Rundel, who was trained in the use of tasers but not carrying one that night, also testified today that there was no discussion among the officers before the Polish immigrant was tackled and tasered.

He told the Braidwood inquiry into Mr Dziekanski's death that he and the three officers went to the airport on Oct. 14, 2007 without any discussion of how to deal with dispatch calls that a male, apparently intoxicted, was throwing luggage around.

He said four officers, each in their own vehicles, proceeded from the RCMP airport detachment to the airport, then entered the international arrivals area.


Enlarge Image
Reporters watch as RCMP Constable Gerry Rundel is seen on a television monitor in a media room testifying at the inquiry into the death of Polish immigrant Robert Dziekanski in Vancouver. (Darryl Dyck/The Canadian Press)


One civilian pointed out Dziekanski, he testified. Another said he did not speak English.

The constable, who joined the RCMP in 2005, said Mr. Dziekanski appeared unkempt, sweaty and agitated.

He associated Mr. Dziekanski's appearance with intoxicated men he had seen previously.

He said that Mr. Dziekanski was tasered when he grabbed a stapler and took a threatening posture, suggesting, according to his training, a "combative stance."

Mr. Dziekanski died soon after.

The other officers scheduled to testify are Constables Bill Bentley, Kwesi Millington and Corporal Benjamin Robinson.

The Crown has ruled out charges against the four officers.

[B-rad]

I know. I thought the same thing when I watched the news today. I thought that's ridiculous, I wonder how much time he spent practicing what he would say and to make sure he said the "right words". It's like he chocked on his words as he pushed out that lie that he feared for his safety.. "to some extent" he said.

But, what do you really expect him to say. Ya I like being a cop and having this tazer on my belt. Makes me feel like a big man and I love seeing them go BUZZZZ.

I probably would have done the same thing and used a tazer considering you get trained to use it and it's not supposed to be a lethal weapon. I don't imagine I would have got him 5 times tho when there are 4 of us and 1 of him.

[Inverted2]

And they were saying he was brandishing a stapler? WTF. I hope these crooked cops get fired. Of course they're immune from criminal charges because they are above the law but they should get fired at the very minimum.

[Nark]

Inverted,

Let me throw a stapler at you.
Sure the stapler isn't lethal, well neither is the taser.

I liked how this story conveniently left out the actual cause of death and left the reader to believe it was the taser, not a knee to his neck that cut the blood flow to his brain.

Let me pose this question:

Hypothetically, I shoot someone. They went to the hospital, surgeons saved the victim. Weeks later during a Westjet flight, because the victim is in a cast he can't move around, and develops Deep Vein Thromboses and dies.

[Just another canuck]

Hypothetically, I shoot someone. They went to the hospital, surgeons saved the victim. Weeks later during a Westjet flight, because the victim is in a cast he can't move around, and develops Deep Vein Thromboses and dies.

Ummmmmmmm...... what?

[Inverted2]

Inverted,

Let me throw a stapler at you.
Sure the stapler isn't lethal, well neither is the taser.

I liked how this story conveniently left out the actual cause of death and left the reader to believe it was the taser, not a knee to his neck that cut the blood flow to his brain.

Let me pose this question:

Hypothetically, I shoot someone. They went to the hospital, surgeons saved the victim. Weeks later during a Westjet flight, because the victim is in a cast he can't move around, and develops Deep Vein Thromboses and dies.

Well this isn't the Police States of America. I would like to think that everyone (including cops) here are responsible for their actions.

[Inverted2]

Tasers are lethal btw, you would know unless you've been living under a rock for the past several years!

It was an office stapler, the one with the tiny staples, not the hardwood flooring staplers, those would be lethal though!

[B-rad]

Inverted,
I liked how this story conveniently left out the actual cause of death and left the reader to believe it was the taser, not a knee to his neck that cut the blood flow to his brain.

You know, after all this time, I did not know that was his cause of death. I haven't been following it too closely but I was always under the impression that the taser is what did him in.

And Inverted2, you're correct. Tasers can be lethal but the ones used by RCMP they are supposed to be non-lethal weapons.

[Four1oh]

You guys are missing the point. The cameraman caught these cops on video discussing and planning to taser him before they even confronted him. I still remember watching the news that night or the night after and CTV or CBC were showing subtext of the conversation as the video rolled. Robert didn't have a chance, and from what I saw on the video, when the 4 cops confronted him and surrounded him, he was almost completely compliant and docile... he was tasered regardless. It was lazy and unprofessional policework, and a man died because of it. It doesn't matter what the official cause of death was, the cops fucked up, and a man died because he couldn't speak english in an international airport.

[Topspin]

Inverted,

Let me throw a stapler at you.
Sure the stapler isn't lethal, well neither is the taser.

I liked how this story conveniently left out the actual cause of death and left the reader to believe it was the taser, not a knee to his neck that cut the blood flow to his brain.

Let me pose this question:

Hypothetically, I shoot someone. They went to the hospital, surgeons saved the victim. Weeks later during a Westjet flight, because the victim is in a cast he can't move around, and develops Deep Vein Thromboses and dies.

You're absolutely right, the taser wasn't the cause of death.

Tough shit those cops will walk except for Monty (RIP Orion)

[Nark]

The man was brandishing a weapon. Yes folks, a stapler is a weapon.

Escalation of force does not have to start at the bottom a progressively move up the chain. Discussing with your partner before hand that you are going to taser an individual isn't unethical, if the situation warrants it. In this case it certainly did.

I asses a situation before the confrontation stage, anyone of you does the same when ATC informs you of turbulence ahead ie tightening seat belts prior to encountering it. "OODA loop" sound familiar?

Canuck:
My poor attempt at a metaphor was comparing the uninformed public perception that Mr. Dziekanski died as a result of the taser, to that of someone dying of a bullet wound on a WestJet flight.

This is a perfect example of Proximate Cause: an action not directly, but leading to an end result.

[ScudRunner]

I think the RCMP has gotten soft on there recruiting standard, they need to go back to the military style boot camp not this feel good liberal hippy crap. hmm 4 officers Vs 1 Suspect in a controlled secure area, Duh my only options are my taser and a gun and tackle him. FAIL

What happened to the Mountie as a peace maker confident in there ability to resolve a situation such as this with policing tools such as reason and thought and only go for their "external tools" of the trade when needed to protect the innocent and themselves.

I agree with Nark completely, but we should be focused on why these Officers could only think of one course of action in dealing with this case. Calling on Dr. Watts and Muscle to remedy a situation may be quick and painless but in my opinion demonstrates complete lack of judgment required to wear that Uniform. RCMP Training/Standards = FAIL

[Hey Piiilot]

Quote:

The man was brandishing a weapon. Yes folks, a stapler is a weapon.

[MUSKEG]

The most comical remark the constable made was that Dziekanski didn't obey an order. Tell me please how he was to understand that? That remark was made after the constable admitted that they were aware the man didn't speak English.
What a sad representation of our National Police force. Bullies, liers, and lazy is more what comes to mind. Isn't there a saying that if you give a uniform to some men/women it intensifies their personality? What happens when one is already a ass?

[niss]

How is this a surprise to you? The RCMP have a long history of persecuting eastern Europeans.

[rigpiggy]

Hypothetically, I shoot someone. They went to the hospital, surgeons saved the victim. Weeks later during a Westjet flight, because the victim is in a cast he can't move around, and develops Deep Vein Thromboses and dies.

Well you know the crown would prosecute any of us if this was the case

You're absolutely right, the taser wasn't the cause of death.
Tough shit those cops will walk except for Monty (RIP Orion)

Want to lay odds that Monty will get off his impaired charge?

give me 100/1 and I'm in for 50$

[BibleMonkey]

How is this a surprise to you? The RCMP have a long history of persecuting eastern Europeans.

Good one. Other parts of that cartoon that outrage my delicate Canadian sense of political correctness:

His hand is way too high on whats-her-names chest there..

That Horse has no Pants!

Where are the squirrel and that Moose guy? Probably in the ditch, dead-that Mountie bastard tasered them!

[bob sacamano]

The man was brandishing a weapon. Yes folks, a stapler is a weapon.

When you are brainwashed, you say crap like this.

Flip flops and shoes are weapons as well right?

[niss]

I am sure Dash Ate can come up with the proper pic.

OUTRAGE!

[mcrit]

I like to give the cops the benefit of the doubt in most cases, BUT, after having seen this video even I am inclined to bring these officers to task.

[bob sacamano]

I'm gonna go ahead and ask you not to be so trigger happy....mmmmkayyyy...

By the way, did you read the memo?

I'll go ahead and fax you the memo...

[B-rad]

I liked how this story conveniently left out the actual cause of death and left the reader to believe it was the taser, not a knee to his neck that cut the blood flow to his brain.

Nark, where did you come across this info? I can't seam to find anything that confirms his cause of death. Only "An autopsy by the British Columbia Coroner’s Service did not determine the cause of death".

[ronjeremy]

Can I just ask, how many of the pilots, mechanics, air traffic controllers, etc.. are trained in use of force? How many after maybe reading about it have applied it to a real life situation?
How many were present during this event and didn't just make up their minds by what they saw on the news? How many here have been upset that an "aviation expert" with 500 hours in a Cessna has commented on aircraft accidents or other related occurrences on the news?
I have a few hundred hours in small singles and a couple dozen in small twins, how would MY criticism of ANY action of a flight crew be taken?

[ronjeremy]

I think the RCMP has gotten soft on there recruiting standard, they need to go back to the military style boot camp not this feel good liberal hippy crap. hmm 4 officers Vs 1 Suspect in a controlled secure area, Duh my only options are my taser and a gun and tackle him. FAIL

What happened to the Mountie as a peace maker confident in there ability to resolve a situation such as this with policing tools such as reason and thought and only go for their "external tools" of the trade when needed to protect the innocent and themselves.

I agree with Nark completely, but we should be focused on why these Officers could only think of one course of action in dealing with this case. Calling on Dr. Watts and Muscle to remedy a situation may be quick and painless but in my opinion demonstrates complete lack of judgment required to wear that Uniform. RCMP Training/Standards = FAIL

., I'd like to invite you to come and teach myself and the others in my detachment use of force, and afterwards I'd like to take you flying and teach you a few things I've learned in the 500 hours I've got.

[fortis risk]

If you talk to people on the street today a majority feel that Robert was murdered by mouth breathing, incompetent cowards. Canadians no longer respect the RCMP, they tolerate them much like security guards at airports.