Contractors Association

[bombardierfixer]

Hey to all the CDN Connies, want to start an association? Basically I think this would be a good idea mostly from a advertising angle. I know on previouse threads that people have expressed intrest about going abroad and seeing some of the world and travelling on our license. I think if we had a means to get the word out there that the Canadian Aircraft Maintenance Engineer is a skilled, knowledgeable, proffessional tradesman it would be a excellent opportunity to showcase our skills. On most Aviation recruitment sites the AME license isn't even a choice of accreditation. Although when you talk to base managers the Canadian is held in high regard.

I'm thinking drum up some corprate support and them some donations then would could buy some glossy print ad's in the industry circulars, make a fancy logo get some pic's and "bob's your uncle" we're done. Actually come up with the fancy Logo then get a mission statement then get the corprate sponsors ect...

So wadda you think?

[wrenches and radios]

What's your model for this?

[CanadianLimey]

I like it. I am finding it hard to get overseas work, which is what I really like to do. Even have a Canadian and an European passport doesn't seem to help.

[bombardierfixer]

Nope no model yet just a idea. I just want to see what the reception would be to the idea first before investining some time into it.

[IRAcontractor]

I think what you really need to do is start an association where you hire a firm to manage you/business. What I mean is get rid of the agencies! Get a large group of contractors together( I mean the good ones and not the dead beats! ) get a company to set up billing system and accounts receivables/payables. The members pay a small portion of THEIR wage to take care of all expenses such as advertising, insurance etc. This way you PAY yourselves and NOT the agecies. Those bastids have been getting greedier and greedier the past few years and paying less and less or at least trying.

I know 1 particular agency that charges $47/hr for their guys and pay $35/hr. So lets say you undercut him or charge the same ..... now you take 3-5$/hr and pay the business which just manages all the said above.

NOW you put $40+/hr in your pocket!

sound better, realistic? This is what I was heading for/thinking about, but I ended up getting a full time job paying better with great benefits so I am FINISHED with contracting!( for now .

We are a skilled and necessary trade pushed around by employers treat us like dirt (pay wise) and now the contracting agecies are starting to do the same.

Best of luck and hope you win!

[knucklesdragon]

isn't that what contracting firms do take the difference from what they charge the client to what they pay you. think of adminstration, looking for contracts for you, insurance. if you are p.o. look for work outside of a agency and you can pocket the whole wage, pay for any libility insurance, worker's comp, legal fees, and anything else that pops up. good luck with that.

[bombardierfixer]

Yeah I think agencies have their place. Its up to you to say what you will/will not work for, and if you take a lower rate, well its the guy in the mirrors fault. But this isn't what the tread is for, like I said before I think it would be a good vehical to get our names out there. I was on a job site last night and you know where the AME license showed up in qualifications? Well it didn't thats the problem.

[IRAcontractor]

OK, so what you are saying is you want people to . in their cash and make the AME license more recognizable in the rest of the world? Think about that now.......WOULD this not be the job of the agency/industry ?

Regarding knucklesdragon statement....that I pay insurance, advertise, pay comp and all the other stuff that he mentioned if I am PO'd at the contract agencies...well I do/did, and made lots of cash. I am my advertising agency cause I do damn good work and that sells me! You will be surprised how cheap comp and insurance is, price it out.

Bombardierfixer have you ever priced GLOSSY ads $$$$$. Have you seen any glossy ads from the agencies...NO...they are all web based. Who is going to be you corporate sponsors? No business which require the AME services will help you because you are going to drive up your $ value so the firms will have to charge more to make the tidy sum they make, therefore making it less appealing for companies to hire.

I have got a fair bit of business background ( for an AME ) in the past 5 years, and not only aviation. The money you will waste on your glossy ads can be used in better ways to further your professional image.

And not to get into a pissing contest, knuclesdragon, but you may want to check your spelling and grammer if you want to be taken seriously.

Good luck to you

[knucklesdragon]

like you said ira better check your grammer in order to be taken serious. not to get in a pissing match with ya'll

[bombardierfixer]

So...are you two in or out? My grammar sucks, and I don't kare

[Pat Richard]

We are a skilled and necessary trade pushed around by employers treat us like dirt (pay wise) and now the contracting agencies are starting to do the same.

What he said.

"Supply and Demand" fails to apply to aviation for some reason, and after almost 15 years in this, I don't think it will ever change, but rather get worse.
Considering that we just went through an unprecedented demand for AME's, particularly experienced, I don't see an association/advertising would help potentially improve the situation, where great demand failed.


best of luck to you. nonetheless.

I give up.

[bk53182]

What's your model for this?

The Canadian Aviation Maintenance Council (CAMC) is a not-for-profit sector council that represents and assists Canada’s aviation and aerospace industry with its human resource strategy, issues and solutions. With the participation of industry members, CAMC develop and publish National Occupational Standards with supporting Logbooks (for professional certification) and Curricula (for post-secondary training organizations). CAMC promotes safety, professionalism and standardization through national communication with industry; Human Factors and Safety Management Systems training; individual certification in 24 occupations; and accreditation of training organization programs.

Just a thought to contribute to the discussion.

[binny45]

CAMC hasn't really done anything for me.

I find the advice offered is convoluted at best, and they are simply not respected in aviation circles.

I would LOVE for someone to show me any different, if nothing else than to show me that I didn't waste my $87.

[Widow]

When Hugh Carson testified before the Transport Standing Committee on Bill C-6/7, the crux of his commentary was a mandatory professional association for commercial pilots.

Pilots need a nationwide self-governing, self-regulating professional association to which all professional pilots--and I mean those flying for hire or reward--must belong. In view of the changes presently occurring in the aviation industry with the introduction of SMS--a form of what I like to call “supervised” self-government and self-regulation for the air operator industry--they need it to provide a pilot input to balance company management, government regulators, and clients in the dynamic bargaining process that determines the industry environment. They need it to provide them with real whistle-blowing protection, since they will be the ones under SMS who really know what will be going on in the future, in my opinion. They need it to set standards for technical education required for the various types of aviation jobs, from entry-level commercial pilot to captain of high-performance passenger-carrying jet. They need it to ensure they receive the proper ongoing education to enable them to do each job with confidence and competence as they progress through their careers. Ethics will be taught and examined.

When I first wrote this paper, I talked only about pilots, since I am a pilot, but I would now extend the same concept to licensed maintenance engineers and certificated dispatchers.

http://www2.parl.gc.ca/HousePublication ... nt-2078946

Personally, I think he's on to something.

[bk53182]

CAMC hasn't really done anything for me.

I find the advice offered is convoluted at best, and they are simply not respected in aviation circles.

I would LOVE for someone to show me any different, if nothing else than to show me that I didn't waste my $87.

What would you like CAMC to do for you?
CAMC is not an industry, trade or labour association.
It was formed awhile ago by the other associations and unions to develop occupational standards for jobs that did not have any standards.
As a sector council, it is helpful to all those other association's HR interests without the "baggage" associated with specific industry lobby. Check out the website to see the Board composition.
And it will be helpful to you, if you participate with it.
Because as with any organization, it is only as good as the members..

[binny45]

CAMC hasn't really done anything for me.

I find the advice offered is convoluted at best, and they are simply not respected in aviation circles.

I would LOVE for someone to show me any different, if nothing else than to show me that I didn't waste my $87.

What would you like CAMC to do for you?
CAMC is not an industry, trade or labour association.
It was formed awhile ago by the other associations and unions to develop occupational standards for jobs that did not have any standards.
As a sector council, it is helpful to all those other association's HR interests without the "baggage" associated with specific industry lobby. Check out the website to see the Board composition.
And it will be helpful to you, if you participate with it.
Because as with any organization, it is only as good as the members..

Well, lets see...

I've tried getting the log book done with some businesses. Though they might be members of CAMC, I've yet to meet a single CAMC certified evaluator that could help me fill out my book.

I've asked numerous times regarding my military training equivalency, only to get driven in circles.

I've even asked exactly what it was CAMC did so that I could participate, and still to this day (over a year later), I'm still not entirely sure why they even exist. And it's not for want of trying, believe me.

Every AME I come across has told me not to bother, concentrate on my TC logbook and when I'm ready, write my license.

I don't want to sound like I'm bashing them, but I have to say, other than claiming the $87 on my taxes, I've seen little benefit from membership.

Is there something I'm doing wrong? Am I talking to the right people? I don't bear CAMC any animosity, I just feel completely lost on the subject of the organization and what it does as a whole.

Believe me, if someone wants to fill me in, be my guest, I'll gladly listen.

[bombardierfixer]

No I wouldn't use the CAMC model, because I'm not to sure what they do either. Granted I did take their refresher human factoid course though. It was 50 bucks but it gave me a piece of paper to say I was current, so thats cool by me.

No I just want to promote the Canadian AME and the Transport license. Seeing how I've been between contracts for the last few weeks the lack of recognition for the CDN license is a little discouraging, in so far as I'm going for my A&P next month so I have somthing to click on in the license accredidation box other that "passport". I'm pretty sure none of the AME organizations do that abroad.

Trying to steer the thread back to where it started.