Soft Field Technique

[shimmydampner]

I hope I can avoid getting sucked too far into this love-fest, but Flaperons is not the only one frustrated with the Cat's seemingly endless supply of arrogance. The only thing worse is the people who bend over backwards to kiss his ass.
I mean no disrespect personally as I don't believe it is possible to judge a person's character from internet posts, but Cat, your posts most definitely convey a feeling of arrogance and superiority.
The father of one of my best friends is a 30,000+ hour pilot and is one of the most humble men in know. While I've never flown with you Cat, I feel confident in saying I'm sure that his skill level is on par with yours. The point is, you will never hear him trumpeting about any of his accomplishments or anything he has done or how much he makes an hour and you will never hear him say that his way is the best way.
Again, I mean this as respectfully as possible as I'm just a low timer who does not have even anywhere close to your knowledge, experience and ,undoubtedly, skill. It is not my intention to offend you or anyone else, it's just my opinion which I've said before, means absolutely nothing.

[Cat Driver]

Shimmydampener :

How is one supposed to type words on a computer to try and convey meaning when one is trying to explain something that is being taught wrong>

It is a demonstratable fact that many of todays pilots being churned out of the puppy mill flight schools are poorly trained, just read some of the other pilots complaining about having co-pilots with poor skills, especially landing in x/winds.

As far as my pointing out the pay that I make I was trying to show the rest of you that you do not have to work for peanuts. If you have a skill you should get paid as much as you can get. Some of you should be able to figure out that a high time instructor is worth as much as an airline pilot, do the math, I charge what an airline pilot makes....if that is unreasonable to the rest of the instructors then work for peanuts.

But I guess I do come off as arrogant and suprerior, which I will fix by not bothering to post on the flight instruction thread from now on. So maybe you can get your fathers friend to give you guys advice on this thread.

Cat

[Shiny Side Up]

Once again Cat there is where I have to disagree with you. Its not the fact that landings are being taught incorrectly - that piece of info is simply not being retained or in most cases, simply being forgotten or ignored whenever the demons of laziness, complacency or simply stupidity take over. Like I say the worst offenders are your flyers right after they get their PPL - this usually includes those working on their commercial which is when most of our poor instructors come from. They have a hunderd and some odd hours in which they typically pick up all sorts of bad habits which usually can only by that point be beaten out of someone. You'll note that its not just landings Cat which people tend to lapse on - Go out with any 100 hour wonder and test them on stalls, steep turns or whatever you'll find them significantly deficient in their abilities. Was this because they were taught poorly? Not likely. The ability of the human being to unlearn stuff is really staggering. Of course by this time most have also determined that they are also excellent pilots as well and what works for them now cannot possibly be improved upon. Now try re-learning them how to land the airplane - something about old dogs and new tricks comes to mind.

Case in point - took a student out a few days ago to do some shine up work for their licence. We do both a soft field take off and a landing - excellent! nice touch down attitude, good control, even kept the nose wheel up. A very good soft field take off followed as well. Next we do the short field, once again excellent landing, right on the numbers stopping almost within the distance quoted in the book. Good work. So after working them through the stuff for the last hour I say for our last one just show me a regular landing - So we pound it on flat, bounce once and use up almost the entire 3000 feet.
I ask"what happend there?"

they say "what do you mean?"

I say "well that was atrocious!"

they say" Well you didn't ask for anything specific"

Yeah, my fault, bad instructor. But here we have a student as soon as any possible requirement was needed for doing good landings simply reverted to accepting "good enough" landings. Why? They obviously had the skill to do a good landing. Try it sometime - if your students think you're not paying attention they are prone to all sorts of negligence. A sort of good enough attitude which pervades the general aviation world unfortunately. Like a commercial twin driver I was talking to the other day who told me this story of attempting to land at a closed down runway - His GPS said it was still active heaven forbid spending twenty bucks on a new CFS! and *gasp!* checking it before your flight! Yes I'm sure we can blame some faulty instruction for this one. And that's just the most recent example I can give - lord knows I can fill up an entire forum with "Negligent pilot tricks".

[Cat Driver]

Shiny Side..

I have zero problem with your thoughts, you are 100% correct that pilots get sloppy when turned loose from training...

..Believe me I know there are many dedicated good instructors out there, I harp on the sloppy products just to reinforce that we need ongoing training...and of course maybe get through to some of the poor instructors.

And once again with regard to what I charge, I "WANT "as many of you to make the same, all it takes is training yourself to strive to be better than the averge bear, then charging for quality training....

The more you free lance the better your take home pay.

Remember you do not need to hold an instructors rating to free lance if you are not training for PPL"s etc...

...hell you don't even need a pilots license to fly with any licensed pilot as a consultant...

Think about it.

Cat

[Shiny Side Up]

That's good in theory too, but I find it does more damage than it usually helps. Especially since the ones who are real hazards in the sky usually have buddies of like mind whom they all agree with one another. A certain group of local pilots who like to "formation fly" as they call it comes to mind. In their line of thinking they're usisng this practice with their fellow pilots to "hone" their skills - in reality none of them has ever taken a second of dual training on the matter - an accident waiting to happen. I've cautioned them against a lot of it when they come to me for advice on the subject - But I'm just a nay sayer who doesn't agree with their world picture, so they simply hunt for a second opinion that fits their world view. Another example would be another pilot who asked me if it was a good idea to go practice instrument work alone. While technically legal - I advised against it, especially given the area he wished to use - a local uncontrolled airport - another pair of look out eyes would be a better option while you're concentrating on your instruments. After consulting an internet buddy that night - off he goes, by himself.

Like I say its this piss poor attitude which is rampant in the general aviation world which is the source of a majority of airplane abuse you see out there. The problem is when one of them screw up - the rest of us have to pay for it - that's why the CARS is written in such obtuse legalese. For each one of the laws in there that you would think would be common sense, you know some idiot has violated it out there.

I weep for the species.

Edit: Ok, my appologies there people, I'm just getting off topic on a rant - just move along, nothing to see here.

[shitdisturber]

Ok, my appologies there people, I'm just getting off topic on a rant - just move along, nothing to see here.

You on a rant??? Say it isn't so!

[Cruz]

After reading all this, I had to create an account just to post this message:

I'm looking for advice on soft field landings.

I've done lots of practice of the softfield technique on a hard surface: full flaps, slower approach speed, keep the nose wheel off, but I have never actually landed on a soft/grass strip.

Is this a safe for solo thing or should I go with an instructor/senior pilot first?

This was the question.

Instructors should stay on topic, it keeps things simpler for students and they will have more confidence in what you are teaching them.

Poor old Cod Father does not have confidence in what he was taught, even though it sounds like he knows how to perform a soft field landing just fine.

Cod Father, if you are "soloing", and have a student pilot permit, you should go into a soft field with your instructor. Even if you are working on a cpl, might as well have someone with experience along. Just pick a long run-way and call the airport operator about the field conditions before you go.

[Cod Father]

Hey all! Thanks for the advice on the soft field technique. I think I'll be taking one of my commercial buddies with me if and when I do go to make the flight to a softfield strip.

[Shiny Side Up]

Have fun.