voyageur bond (think twice)

[3AO]

Warning for all interested Voyageur parties.

I am one of 2 people I know that has recently been taken by the bond (your personal bank loan) set up by Voyageur. I've been hesitant to post anything to date due to legal proceedings, but am so pissed off at being stupid for signing the loan and secondly would like for everybody to know that it is happening.

My circumstance may be a little differnt from most but will give as much information here as I can disclose, it will give most of you enough information to either decide not to sign up and stay clear and those of you already there to be careful.
My Voy saga started last year in August, after completing sim and going home, it took 4 months for them to give me a poting in Africa, I then finished a short contract for them in Canada.

I was sent a registered letter which I recieved on the 10th, it was available for pick up on the 5th and It said if I was unable to fly ouit to africa on the 6th it would be taken that I have resigned my positon. After a phone call to the CP at the time, King air work was talked about and I was told the company would look into what else could be done. I foolshly also disclosed to the CP proir to this, that I would not be extending my contract after the year was up in August. 2 weeks later I recieved a second registered letter saying I had been terminated on the 6th.

Basically I was fired after not being able to take a posting back overseas, the reason is of a personal family nature and I can't disclose it here.

I now owe the entire amount of 15K plus interest accumulated over the year.

[bose]

hi i think maybe you get what deserve for pay 15000 to the voyager in the first place!!! you say you start last august but still too many information say voyager is bad way before and you still decide to be a pilot hore so now you pay the price next time dont be stupid and pay for job...

[Doc]

bose, that was pretty rude, and uncalled for. The guy has the stones to open up here as a warning to others not to make the same mistake he did, and he gets your broken English bull shit for his effort?

3AO, thanks for posting that.......READ it children! This could happen to YOU!!!

[4hrstovegas]

Doc x2. Bose, people sharing their experiences with people like you is a waste of time. You know it all. Instead of passing judgement, maybe you should thank 3AO (and everybody like him) who give you information that might keep you from making a similar mistake. This is not a thread about, "do you think I should do it?" It's a post made with good intentions and honesty. Deconstructive posts like yours are what lead people in this industry into the "f*#k thy neighbour" attitude, and valuable experience is kept secret.

3AO, sounds like a crappy deal. Hope your lawyers (and story) put more nails in their coffin.

[Cleared to FL370]

3AO:

I am sorry to hear of your situation, I hope it will work out for you, I guess it will take a little time to resolve unfortunatly (court system)

While I have never had to sign a bond in my career many of my friends have, including a few that were at Jetsgo, they've been burned in the same manner as you unfortunatly.

[tsgas]

This is going to burst chu me's bright beautiful bubble about how sweet things are at VAL

[FUval]

Thanks for sharing 3AO and all the best in the courts. Hopefully your story gets out and others can benefit by avoiding the scam that VAL has become. (always has been?)


Perhaps Ole would care to respond with his side? (how much is he pulling anyway for doing his part in f*ing over the industry??)


In the meantime I'll start preparing another bucket full of shit for Max S's doorstep.

[AAAME]

Came from Flight Safety this morning and passed the new Voyageur recuits training on the Dash 7.
I felt both sorry and a shamed with them.

[xsbank]

If this is a real situation and not a troll (this IS the internet), seriously, you should talk to a lawyer about 'wrongful dismissal' (there is a LOT of law about that topic now) and screw the pricks for all you can get.

And to think the lovely Dash7 is associated with those yahoos.

[chu me]

To Tsgas;
I have never said (EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) that things were bright and beautiful at VAL( for your info I used to live in North Bay and preferred to work in Saskatchewan!!!!!). I did say that bashing them was a waste of time! I also said that things have been like this at VAL for a long time and were not likely to change, as long as young pilots,who do not know of many other places to go, continue to apply to VAL. In that spirit, I started a new thread to allow people (such as yourself) to post the names of companies that do not require bonds and also treat their pilots well.To date we have the names of 33 companies.I hope we get alot more!!! This, I believe, is a more positive way of addressing the problem i.e. if the young pilots have other places to apply, then maybe VAL will eventually run out of pilots to treat in this manner. I have not noticed your name as a poster on that thread, we would welcome your input over there ( I'm sure you must know at least 1 or 2 companies to add to the list.). If 3AO had other options he might not have had to go through this bullshit.

Dear 3AO;
I am deeply sorry to hear of your predicament. I believe a good labour lawyer can help you with your problem you should contact one as soon as possible.

Best of luck!!

[SgtStroka]

Just got the call to go! Looks good to me, good pay time off! Woot Woot! All I had to do was suck some salty balls and take a second morgage out on my student loans!

Ciao and Fuk off VAL

[I have control]

Why would anyone sign a bond these days. Use your heads boyz

[wallypilot]

brutal, brutal industry. this practice should be illegal. bond, okay....I can see that. But a loan in one's own name? Brutal. The courts are pretty fair in these situations. Hopefully you can get some of your money back. If I understand you correctly, you did work a year with them, right?

[synthpro]

Bose.. your a douche bag.

3AO... Thanks for that info man. Just a few points:

1) Could you not pro rate the bond amount that they owe you. You paid 15k and were there for 6 months. You could make a good arguments that they owe you 7.5k.

2) The Canadian labor code has many laws against wrongful dismal. To be properly dismissed, the company is required to give the worker a written warning and instructions of how to improve themselves (regardless of weather you were on your year probabtion.. those dont apply to the Canadian Labor code). Please look into that. I would like you to get your money back.

3) You must have been fuckn nervous during your initial sim ride aie???? You fail it... pooof.... bye bye 15 k and no job. Do they have anything to secure you from such a shortfall?

Later

M.

[flying4dollars]

hi i think maybe you get what deserve for pay 15000 to the voyager in the first place!!! you say you start last august but still too many information say voyager is bad way before and you still decide to be a pilot hore so now you pay the price next time dont be stupid and pay for job...

I'm surprised the grammar police hasn't responded to this call

[Doc Driver]

Scum bags.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

It would be nice to hear how 3AO made out with his bond.

[V1RotateV2]

These days you just cannot accept the type of "loan/bond" VAL wants. If they, or any other company, go out of business, you are still liable for the full outstanding balance of the loan.

Don't want to start an argument that has been discussed over, and over, and over, but a pure bond, where you agree to refund a pro-rated amount if you leave before a certain date will not affect you as much.
Usually those bonds expire and will not be enforced if the company shuts down or fires you.

Putting money upfront be it cash or loan? No way!

In an urge to buy a type rating? Go to Flighsafety, spend your hard earned after tax dollars and then negotiate your terms of employment when you offer yourself as a rated pilot. Still does not make sense, but at least you will be able to leave whenever you are offered bluer skies.

[synthpro]

These bonds are tax deductible though no?

[shinnyside]

You should go to the labour board and prove wrongfull dismissal. I know someone who did this in your situation and won.

Also we as Pilots should just say NO to money upfront, there is no reason for an Employee to subsidies his Employer unless he is a Partern.

[rigpiggy]

I was sent a registered letter which I recieved on the 10th, it was available for pick up on the 5th and It said if I was unable to fly ouit to africa on the 6th it would be taken that I have resigned my positon.

Why would you pick up a registered letter. They are only bad news

[vortac]

There will never be a shortage of brickheads lining up to work for these guys.. those that do should hang their head in shame. For every pilot who has take a job there, he/she has kicked another four square in the face.

[Brown Bear]

Could somebody post a copy of the VAL "bond" again, so everybody even THINKING about signing that one sided piece of crap can give their heads a shake?

[Lowrider]

You idiots all make me laugh; why the hell did any one of you get into aviation in the first place? Bitch bitch bitch, yak yak yak. The minute anyone starts a post about VAL, every idiot with a keyboard wants to take a jab. Get a grip.
I have absolutely ZERO sympathy for a guy who can’t cope with the responsibilities he’s been hired for. Stop bloody complaining, strap on a pair and do the job you were bloody hired to do.
Picture this: You own an airline and times are good… you have a few Dash 7s, a couple of 8s and some RJs… you’re looking to crew your planes and so you interview from the pile of CVs on your desk… you hire a few good guys, fire off a check to Flight Safety to cover their training costs then settle back to run your operation… All’s well for a while, then lo and behold, AC starts hiring… It’s bloody jackpot time for anyone with an ATPL… Not 6 months after joining VAL, your new recruits start bailing ship for greener pastures. WTF? …You’ve just forked out 20-30K per pilot for the type rating and training and you’re now back to square one looking for crew. Unreal.
Anyone who tells me that management should just suck it up is a hypocrite. The reason that good companies like VAL need to secure collateral for the training they offer is that they’ve been burned so many times in the past. The bond at VAL is 15K and qualifying for a personal loan through VAL’s CIBC branch in North Bay is painless and easy… No one is asking you to max out your credit cards or sell your left kidney… After a year, the personal loan you took out and any accrued interest is reimbursed to you. Total cost to you: $0 and 365 days of commitment. Get a grip all of you who whinge about being better than that.
The conditions of employment and the bond are explained to YOU at the interview. If you don’t like it, don’t bloody join… Apply to Jazz and earn 36K a year if it makes you feel morally superior… Personally I’d rather work overseas for 6 months of the year earning anywhere from 55K-85K (most of which is tax free). The average Canadian gets 2 weeks leave per year but on UN contracts you’ll be home for 24 of them. Open your eyes and stop bitching. Tell me what other job offers you those terms.
I have absolutely ZERO sympathy for a guy who accepts the terms and conditions laid out in a contract then backpedals when his schedule can’t be accommodated and he gets dismissed. You say you spent 4 months waiting to be posted but you fail to mention that you were paid from the moment you first began your company indoc. training… essentially 5 months.
VAL probably wanted to get you overseas as quickly as possible to recoup their investment but you were being paid. Strap on a pair. You were hired to work overseas in Africa. Essentially you would have done 3 missions then your bond and any further commitment would have been nullified. You had more pressing matters… perhaps you were having your wisdom teeth pulled out, perhaps your grandma died… whatever. UN contracts can’t be postponed because you have a prior engagement. Life is about choices; you made yours now deal with the consequences. You have a type rating why don’t you find another operator and you’ll probably have a good shot. Stop bitching.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

The bond at VAL is 15K and qualifying for a personal loan through VAL’s CIBC branch in North Bay is painless and easy…

Why does VAL require pilots to take out a personal loan?

What is wrong with signing a bond?

As to Africa it should pay well.