Snow and Runway Conditions

[Navajo Flyer]

Out flying last night. Major snowstorm went over home airport while I was away. Called FSS to get the condition of the runway. FSS informed me that I there was approx. 6 cm of snow with winds of 25 kts. (drifts). The runway wasn't cleared and that the airport operator wasn't going to clear it. If I want it cleared then I would have to pay for 3 hours labour along with equipment rental !! My question is, isn't there some standard that an airport has to follow for removal of runway surface contaminants? The airport is in possesion of an operating certificate. It seems that if it is snowing then the airport operator will suspend snow removal until it has quite snowing, just to save a few dollars. They will also only clear one runway even when the wind is favouring the crosswind runway. I believe the media should be informed of this as I feel it is a safety concern to the general flying public.

[yfly]

I will alert the media!

They have given you the option of using the airport, you just have to pay the cost of labor that is over and above their expense of waiting until they have regular staff on duty.

Ideally, it would be nice if every airport was kept clear 24/7 but that isn't within the economic realities of most communities or operator.

[x-wind]

There isn't to much an airport has to do if its "limited winter maintenance"

Actually, I don't think there is a set standard at all. SMS is happening for airports too though.

[MUSKEG]

If you want your lease, and the implementing of increased landing fees (which I'm sure you bitch about) to reflect the cost of overtime, and equipment costs they will gladly do that for you. By the way a 6cm snowstorm is not a major snowstorm. Thats 2 and 1/2 inches the old way. People forget the difference between rights and priviledges.

[Navajo Flyer]

When there nothing to do around the airport, the equipment is kept busy doing trivial things. All those trivial things add up. I'd rather see the equipment operators drinking coffee, cleaning the toilets etc. rather than putting hours and fuel through the equipment. That savings could be put to the extra time during "off regular hours". I guess airports run from 8 to 5, 5 days a week.

[airpolit]

In the FSS it says limited winter maint after hours, 2 hours prior notice required.
During OPERATING HOURS, which are in the CFS; they should be able to keep the runway clear.
If it is a giant storm and nothing is expected in they may decide to let it build it rather than plow throughout the snow storm. Thats at the managers discretion. The removal is based of a plan of priorities, not cross wind.

Depending on the runways surface condition after snow removal, and also the width and length of the runway is the real factor landing with crosswinds. Jets can handle a good 30kt+

At closing time the airport would report the runway condition.

If more snow is expected afterhours, they will inform fss what time plowing will commence (at 0400L for expample) and that will be NOTAMed. If you really need to get in to land, a fee for callout and snow removal is most definatly acceptable.

(Navajo Flyer""I guess airports run from 8 to 5, 5 days a week."")
What airports are you talking about? Most certified I know are 7 days a week.

[lilfssister]

There isn't to much an airport has to do if its "limited winter maintenance"

Or published hours of winter maintenance. If hours are published as ## to ##, then I expect you'd pay costs outside those hours.

[Liquid Charlie]

Jets can handle a good 30kt+

-- only if the runway is bare and dry - on a slippery/wet runway about 20kts and icy 10kts -- recommended max crosswinds are generally around 30kts -- but recommended is the operative word

[freakonature]

Navajo Flyer, what did you end up doing?

[airpolit]

Liquid Charlie - My bad and good call on the crosswind chartage.

The questions I wonder about the story are:

1. Did you return and land on the snow covered runway?

2. Was this during normal operating hours? Sounds like it was since the condition was NOTAMed.

3. Do you really believe this is a safety concern worth going to the media..?
-could doing more research before a night flight make you aware of a situation like this one?


Check out CARs Part III, you may be able to find regulations regarding snow removal plans, or type " airport snow removal plan" into google and you may find published plans if you are lucky.

CARs part III should have regulations about snow removal or a snow removal plan. in there somewhere.... lol

Check out this story, at a scheduled airport that failed to keep up with conditions:
http://www.dunstabletoday.co.uk/541/Eas ... 4999674.jp

This is a snow plan from the states:
http://www.columbiaairport.com/Snow%20a ... 032207.pdf

You can see the priorities listed.
Which could be similar to your comment re: crosswind rwy not being cleared.

Good topic of interest.
Take it easy

[YoungPunk]

If it is a major concern for you (as it seems to be) I would contact the Airport manager and talk to him/her about it. If it was my airport I would be glad to have a discussion regarding your needs as a client and how I could better assist you.

All airports should have a winter maintenance plan that dictates how and when they do the snow removal. My plan states that the primary runway is our primary concern. Yes we will do the cross strip but not until the main runway is done. However if you had FSS ask me to do it as you wanted to use it I'm sure I could make a few passes and have it ready for you.

Another thing to consider is the possibility of freezing rain. I don't know if this applicable in the OP's story but if there isn't too much snow and there is a possibility of freezing rain I'm leaving that snow on there until the rain is gone! Rain on snow is WAY better to deal with than rain on bare tarmac.

Would I have that cross strip cleared at 3AM in a snow storm? No, probably not. I want to go home like anybody else so if the weathers good when I'm finished at the end of the day I go home. I'm not going to wake up every 2 hours to look out the window and check for snow just in case. Or for that matter have FSS call me the second a snow storm blows in. 99% of my traffic isn't going to move until after 8 AM and I can have all major and some minor maneuvering areas plowed by then. If there's a Medivac flight coming in at 3AM and the runways contaminated they call and I come in to clear. No I wont charge them for it. Thats my airport though.

When there nothing to do around the airport, the equipment is kept busy doing trivial things. All those trivial things add up. I'd rather see the equipment operators drinking coffee, cleaning the toilets etc. rather than putting hours and fuel through the equipment. That savings could be put to the extra time during "off regular hours". I guess airports run from 8 to 5, 5 days a week.

Not just sure what you're referring to as trivial things but once all the snow is clear of the runway our job is far from over. We have to move the snow back from the lights. We need to clear emergency roads to all points of our airport. We need to clear parking lots and when the snow piles get to big in said lots we need to relocate that snow some where suitable. Keeping on top of these things is what makes an airport run smoothly. And just for the record I work 7-4 mon-fri, longer if the snow's still falling or if I get called out and we have 1/2 our crew on call for all weekends in winter with all crew willing to come in and assist if the snow really begins to fall hard.

Those are just a few tidbits of info from the other side of the plow