Obama ends program that let pilots carry guns

[Sulako]

Wow
Admittedly I may have used an insensitive term to describe a certain group that committed this act
My bad

But to then be called racist .. ignorant .. redneck .. dumbass .. by others, including a mod.

That makes the score 4 to one in my books

Pot and kettle?????

I'm out

Insensitive term? Calling people 'ragheads' goes far beyond insensitive. Even little kids know better, and so should you. There is ZERO room on AvCan for such posts, and if you aren't prepared to accept that, then I wish best of luck to you on other aviation forums because you won't last here.

//now back to the thread

[bmc]

Thank you, Sulako.

[bmc]

Once again, the Washington Times demonstrates its quality as a news source.


Newsmax.com


Feds Deny Obama Will Take Guns Away from PilotsThursday, March 19, 2009 9:37 AM

By: Jim Meyers

Federal officials and the airline pilots union are denying a report that the Obama administration is seeking to end a program that trains pilots to carry guns in jetliner cockpits.

An editorial published in the Washington Times on Tuesday stated that “President Obama is quietly ending the federal firearms program, risking public safety on airlines in the name of an anti-gun ideology.”

About 12,000 pilots have been authorized to carry handguns while flying aircraft as part of the Federal Flight Deck Officers (FFDO) program, and the Times article called the administration’s move “completely unnecessary harassment of the pilots.”

But Sterling Payne, a spokeswoman for the Transportation Security Administration (TSA), told Fox News of the editorial: “It’s inaccurate. This program continues to grow. TSA continues to recruit and put new FFDOs on planes, and we continue to train them and do recurring training.”
Congress authorized the gun program following the 9/11 attacks to help prevent terrorists from turning jetliners into flying bombs that could be used to attack key sites like the White House.

The Airlines Pilots Association International, representing more than 52,000 pilots in the U.S. and Canada, issued a statement saying the Times story “couldn’t be further from the truth.” Union representatives “met with TSA executives and were told in no uncertain terms that TSA embraces the FFDO program, that there are no plans to reduce or restrict its growth, and that in fact the agency fully intends to grow and expand the program,” according to the union statement.

“Government representatives acknowledged that the program needs additional funding to achieve these goals, and that they are actively seeking same.”

[fogghorn]

Obama aims to completely disarm the U.S. populace, that means pilots as well. Let alone the fact that no one can get it through their skulls that guns would not have prevented 911 either, that whole thing including the show comission to get to the bottom was a sick joke. Anyway, Obama is an arrogant communist control freak and NO ONE other than his goons will be packin, that much you can count on.

[bmc]

It's important to realize that America is a place where people do, in fact need to carry guns. And that's everyone, from school children, to teachers to pilots. The US is not like other parts of the world where this discussion isn't needed. The US is a dangerous place and people need to arms themselves and their kids. It's really the safest way to go.

[Cat Driver]

Cat Driver wrote:
I flew for years with a 357 Magnum in a holster and never ever had any problems.....I always knew that if something went wrong my survival weapon was where I could find it.

Raven asked:

So by survival tool, I assume you mean a tool for defense?

No raven I carried it to use it as a hammer on building projects in the Arctic.

[bmc]

No raven I carried it to use it as a hammer on building projects in the Arctic.

I think I actually peed a little when I read this.

[Cat Driver]

bmc sometimes I wonder where we are headed in aviation, with all the social engineering that this country has been subjected to we are getting robots in the industry, unable to use logic and simple deduction to figure out the obvious.

Seems we have a lot of meek sheep who blindly read and follow dummbed down rules regardless of how stupid said rules are.

The discussion now going on in the bush flying forum is typical of how blindly they follow.

Anyone who thinks it is unsafe to fly a sea plane lower that 300 feet over water should find another industry to work in.

[Nark]

Cat,
I hope no pilot ever decides to fly lower that 300' over a runway. That could prove unsafe and dangerous.

I personally use my pistol to reach those pesky hard to reach places on my knoggin.

[raven54]

No raven I carried it to use it as a hammer on building projects in the Arctic.

Up yours you cocky old fart.

I thought you were going to say you'd use a pistol for hunting game in the arctic, to which I'd say good f'in luck trying to hit any animal at a distance with a pistol.

[Cat Driver]

I thought you were going to say you'd use a pistol for hunting game in the arctic, to which I'd say good f'in luck trying to hit any animal at a distance with a pistol.

Maybe you need some training with a pistol?

[raven54]

I think I could get a caribou in a herd, but a single animal.....guess I'd need training. No probs with a good ol' rifle though, however I'd get some odd looks carrying the 3030 on board.

[rustytools]

Only time will tell What is true or not, but if it's true that pilots can be criminally indicted for speaking about the program, well, lets just say I already have plenty of reasons to doubt government statements. At least if this ban was to take place, I could rank it in the "Well, that's beurocrats for you" catagory. But to take benifits away from war vets? If they are capable of that, something I would put in the "Ludicrous. No one in their right mind would ever do that" category, then all logic and morallity seem lost. I wonder if the pilots of Airforce 1 carry?

The events of 9/11, including the rebellion on that last bird, have, (as already stated) changed things immeasureably. If there were another hijacking, the swiftness and violence of any resistance could probably only be compared with a jailroom brawl. I know of one documented death for sure, and there must be others. The one I know of, the guy tried opening a door in flight, and was "subdued" and died because passengers were sitting on him and he couldn't breath.

From the Canadian Criminal Code:

Use of force on board an aircraft

27.1 (1) Every person on an aircraft in flight is justified in using as much force as is reasonably necessary to prevent the commission of an offence against this Act or another Act of Parliament that the person believes on reasonable grounds, if it were committed, would be likely to cause immediate and serious injury to the aircraft or to any person or property therein.

There is also the question of priority. For those of you who carried, if there was a disturbance with the passengers, would you have left your seat, compromised the security(?) of the cabin door to deal with the problem? Or would you have stayed put and only reacted if someone tried to gain entry to the cabin? I know the answer will depend on the nature of the problem and the actual security provided by the door, but I'm interested if there is a difference in how someone who only took the FAA course would react versus someone with, say, a law enforcement or military background.

Also, are the rounds issued a reduced, frangible load?

[iflyforpie]

I took a Remington 700 from YRM to Invermere. The owner wanted it really bad I guess, and it wasn't even hunting season.

[flycyhm]

.

[flycyhm]

.

[Skyhunter]

Obama aims to completely disarm the U.S. populace, that means pilots as well. Let alone the fact that no one can get it through their skulls that guns would not have prevented 911 either, that whole thing including the show comission to get to the bottom was a sick joke. Anyway, Obama is an arrogant communist control freak and NO ONE other than his goons will be packin, that much you can count on.

Really, your telling me if the pilots of those ill-fated flights had been packing, there would not have been a significant chance of the outcome being different?

No matter whether you think pilots should be carrying or not, if you don't think it would have made a difference on those particular flights you are deluded Fogghorn.

[costermonger]

Really, your telling me if the pilots of those ill-fated flights had been packing, there would not have been a significant chance of the outcome being different?

I'd say preventing entry to the cockpit in the first place would've had higher odds of altering the outcome of those flights. I'm not particularly for or against the idea of armed pilots (provided they're properly trained), it just doesn't strike me as the best way to address the problem.

[AntiNakedMan]

In Canada, the Criminal Code (R.S., c. C-34, s. 2.) defines a peace officer as:
“

"peace officer" includes

Not sure what the point of that excerpt was. A University Cop is a peace officer, and they don't get to carry. Your excerpt showed a whole load of situations where people are peace officers, and none of them carry. Weak argument.

[fogghorn]

Anyway, Obama is an arrogant communist control freak and NO ONE other than his goons will be packin, that much you can count on.

Really, your telling me if the pilots of those ill-fated flights had been packing, there would not have been a significant chance of the outcome being different?

No matter whether you think pilots should be carrying or not, if you don't think it would have made a difference on those particular flights you are deluded Fogghorn.

I dont think guns would have made a difference because I dont buy the official version of events, none of it. Having said that, guns nowadays are pretty stupid, who is gonna get past security and if they do the cockpit is locked and the doors are meant to withstand gunshots. Personally tho, i think everyone should pack so that they can get some service out of those bitchy jazz and ac flt attendents - do they intentionally hire every half baked hag on the planet?

[floydb]

Speaking of hags, I want to know why Jazz seems to have such high load factors. Their service is disgusting, they turn planes around back to departure points at the drop of a hat cause most of the crews could seem to care less if they get ppl to destination or not. Everyone there from the csas to peanut pitchers seems sour, you dare not ask anything and piss them off. So why oh why do people not try the competition now and then i will never figure. it appears that canucks are either stupid or like the abuse. This doesnt address their fares either, for north south flights they are not competitive and their walk up cost is absolutely criminal. Its crap, if you hear a giant sucking sound its a jazz flight actually landing at a destination. Does anyone know a guy named glycol manson, wonder if hes still there making sure props dont turn?

[Ronner]

Were in there do you see any argument, just plain fact. I see no where in there were it says University police, it does say special constable and some campus police have them on staff. If for any reason you were to request a carry permit you would have a leg to stand on as you are duty bound to ensure the safety of your pax. All pilots in Canada are "flight deck officers" however they do not all need guns, they have enough power vested in them by the CC.

[rustytools]

Are any of the items on resupply trucks screened? Also, I find it funny that we practically get raped by the security in Yellowknife, and then for the rest of the trip to Edmonton, we are issued a metal knife,fork,spoon set by Canadian North. On their tenth aniversary, everyone was given a little bag of shampoo, toothe brush, facial creme rtc. Then we went through security and all had to bag the liquids, and on and on.

[floydb]

I would like to hear from any Jazz guys about why they have such poor service to places like yxt and yyd. I'm refering to constant turn arounds. For instance, the other night jazz was headed to yxt and the wx was 1 mile vis with about 500 vv and circling would be required due to wind. this was while they were an hour from xt. So instead of heading along and giving it a look, they head off to yxs and meanwhile the competition which was arriving xt at about the same time that evening landed staight in on 33 no sweat as wx had improved and circling was not required. this crap happens all the time and yet the sheep that ride on jazz just sit and put up with it, are these pax seriously that cowed and or stupid? if you got time to spare, go jz air. I think glycol manson (possibly related to .) must still be working there, if anyone could find a reason to abort something it would be him and his sort of pantywaste mentality has become endemic at jizz. I think he should let his ad exec feminist partner haul in the cash and he should get back in the kitchen with the panties and apron where he belongs. Dont be pissed now glycol, its all in good fun

[yfly]

OK, we get it Floyd. Obama is a communist, Jazz sucks and glycol caught you with your dick in a knot hole.