Pope's condom stance sparks row - Wonder why......

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Pope's condom stance sparks row - Wonder why......

Post by reality check »

Pope's condom stance sparks row




Several EU states have criticised Pope Benedict for saying that the use of condoms could endanger public health and increase the problem of HIV/Aids.

The Pope argued that distribution of condoms aggravated the problem, rather than helping to contain the virus, as he began a visit to Africa this week.

France's foreign ministry said condoms were fundamental to prevention.

German ministers said it was irresponsible to withhold family planning from the poorest of the poor.

The Roman Catholic Church believes marital fidelity and sexual abstinence are the best way to prevent the spread of HIV.

Some 22 million people are infected with HIV in sub-Saharan Africa, according to UN figures for 2007.

This amounts to about two-thirds of the global total.

'Extremely harmful'

French foreign ministry spokesman Eric Chevallier said: "While it is not up to us to pass judgment on Church doctrine, we consider that such comments are a threat to public health policies and the duty to protect human life."


Why the Pope opposes condoms

In Berlin, German Health Minister Ulla Schmidt and Development Minister Heidemarie Wieczorek-Zeul said in a joint statement: "Condoms save lives, in Europe as well as on other continents.

"Modern assistance to the developing world today must make access to family planning available to the poorest of the poor - especially the use of condoms.

"Anything else would be irresponsible."

Dutch Development Minister Bert Koenders said it was "extremely harmful and very serious" that the Pope was "forbidding people from protecting themselves".

"There is an enormous stigma surrounding the subject of Aids and Aids sufferers face serious discrimination," he added.

"The Pope is making matters worse."

'Increasing the problem'

On his way to Cameroon, the Pope said HIV/Aids was "a tragedy that cannot be overcome by money alone, that cannot be overcome through the distribution of condoms, which can even increase the problem".


Delphine Mauvenir

Pope's visit raises hopes
Can Catholicism help Africa?

The solution lay, he said, in a "spiritual and human awakening" and "friendship for those who suffer".

Campaigners say condoms are one of the few methods proven to stop the spread of HIV.

Rebecca Hodes, of the Treatment Action Campaign in South Africa, said the Pope's "opposition to condoms conveys that religious dogma is more important to him than the lives of Africans".

On Wednesday, the Pope attended a gathering of more than 30 Cameroonian bishops in the capital, Yaounde.
Catholic women wave rosaries in Yaounde, Cameroon (18 March 2009)
The Pope said Catholicism faced a threat from superstition

He told the bishops they had to preserve traditional African families and protect the country's poor.

"In the context of globalisation with which we are all familiar, the Church takes a particular interest in those who are most deprived," he said.

He said it was the duty of Christians to help to build "a more just world where everyone can live with dignity", the Associated Press reported.

The Pope also warned of a threat to the Catholic Church in Cameroon from evangelical movements and from the "growing influence of superstitious forms of religion".

Earlier on Wednesday, he held a private meeting with Mr Biya at the presidential palace.

The BBC's Caroline Duffield in Yaounde says Mr Biya's consistent electoral victories have been widely condemned as fraudulent.

Having spoken out publically against corruption, many Cameroonians will be hoping that the Pope delivered his message in private as well, says our correspondent.

Pope Benedict is due to end his visit to Africa with a stop in Angola.

Disgusting. Some day the world will hold the Church accountable. :evil:
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Re: Pope's condom stance sparks row - Wonder why......

Post by taxiway_matthew »

reality check wrote:
Pope's condom stance sparks row




Several EU states have criticised Pope Benedict for saying that the use of condoms could endanger public health and increase the problem of HIV/Aids.

The Pope argued that distribution of condoms aggravated the problem, rather than helping to contain the virus, as he began a visit to Africa this week.

France's foreign ministry said condoms were fundamental to prevention.

German ministers said it was irresponsible to withhold family planning from the poorest of the poor.

The Roman Catholic Church believes marital fidelity and sexual abstinence are the best way to prevent the spread of HIV.

Some 22 million people are infected with HIV in sub-Saharan Africa, according to UN figures for 2007.

This amounts to about two-thirds of the global total.

'Extremely harmful'

French foreign ministry spokesman Eric Chevallier said: "While it is not up to us to pass judgment on Church doctrine, we consider that such comments are a threat to public health policies and the duty to protect human life."


Why the Pope opposes condoms

In Berlin, German Health Minister Ulla Schmidt and Development Minister Heidemarie Wieczorek-Zeul said in a joint statement: "Condoms save lives, in Europe as well as on other continents.

"Modern assistance to the developing world today must make access to family planning available to the poorest of the poor - especially the use of condoms.

"Anything else would be irresponsible."

Dutch Development Minister Bert Koenders said it was "extremely harmful and very serious" that the Pope was "forbidding people from protecting themselves".

"There is an enormous stigma surrounding the subject of Aids and Aids sufferers face serious discrimination," he added.

"The Pope is making matters worse."

'Increasing the problem'

On his way to Cameroon, the Pope said HIV/Aids was "a tragedy that cannot be overcome by money alone, that cannot be overcome through the distribution of condoms, which can even increase the problem".


Delphine Mauvenir

Pope's visit raises hopes
Can Catholicism help Africa?

The solution lay, he said, in a "spiritual and human awakening" and "friendship for those who suffer".

Campaigners say condoms are one of the few methods proven to stop the spread of HIV.

Rebecca Hodes, of the Treatment Action Campaign in South Africa, said the Pope's "opposition to condoms conveys that religious dogma is more important to him than the lives of Africans".

On Wednesday, the Pope attended a gathering of more than 30 Cameroonian bishops in the capital, Yaounde.
Catholic women wave rosaries in Yaounde, Cameroon (18 March 2009)
The Pope said Catholicism faced a threat from superstition

He told the bishops they had to preserve traditional African families and protect the country's poor.

"In the context of globalisation with which we are all familiar, the Church takes a particular interest in those who are most deprived," he said.

He said it was the duty of Christians to help to build "a more just world where everyone can live with dignity", the Associated Press reported.

The Pope also warned of a threat to the Catholic Church in Cameroon from evangelical movements and from the "growing influence of superstitious forms of religion".

Earlier on Wednesday, he held a private meeting with Mr Biya at the presidential palace.

The BBC's Caroline Duffield in Yaounde says Mr Biya's consistent electoral victories have been widely condemned as fraudulent.

Having spoken out publically against corruption, many Cameroonians will be hoping that the Pope delivered his message in private as well, says our correspondent.

Pope Benedict is due to end his visit to Africa with a stop in Angola.

Disgusting. Some day the world will hold the Church accountable. :evil:
Some day Christ will hold you accountable...but only when it is too late
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Re: Pope's condom stance sparks row - Wonder why......

Post by bmc »

Great quote:

"The Roman Catholic Church believes marital fidelity and sexual abstinence are the best way to prevent the spread of HIV".

And if you don't have marital fidelity and sexual abstinence, look the other way?

I keep waiting for this guy to say something meaningful and appropriate and it just never comes.
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Re: Pope's condom stance sparks row - Wonder why......

Post by niss »

taxiway_matthew wrote:
Some day Christ will hold you accountable...but only when it is too late
Taxiway_Matthew with the rebound....he scores!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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I am totally digging the playoff beard.

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Re: Pope's condom stance sparks row - Wonder why......

Post by . ._ »

:lol: :prayer: niss
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Re: Pope's condom stance sparks row - Wonder why......

Post by Just another canuck »

Habs should have picked up Jesus before trade deadline... looks like he's got some skills. :mrgreen:
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Re: Pope's condom stance sparks row - Wonder why......

Post by Sulako »

The panzer pope should be put on trial for attempted murder. No wonder their religion is dying - their leader actively encourages the deaths of his followers. How irresponsible and out-of-touch can he possibly be to say something like that?

People have sex. Some of those people aren't even married to each other. To try to supress a perfectly natural instinct will never be possible, so deal with it already.
There is irrefutable evidence that proper condom use can cut the risk of acquiring HIV from an infected partner by more than 90%.
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Re: Pope's condom stance sparks row - Wonder why......

Post by ottawa,kan »

Intellectually the Pope is 100% correct. You can't get AIDS if you don't have sex. And if you AND your partner follow Catholic precepts, marry as virgins and don't have extra marital affairs, you also are 100% protected from AIDS and any other STD. So it seems to me the teachings of the Popes church are 100% valid. What else to you expect from the leader of a church? He should actively promote something his church doesn't believe in? Anyway where do you think these religious ideas about virgin marriage and staying faithful came from?? Until antibiotics there were a whole host of sex diseases that could kill you. Remember how Al Capone died? All religions share these very practical ideas.
Now before you flame me as an idiot I realize it won't work. Sex is a basic genetic urge. An urgent urge. But condoms won't work either if women don't have the social and cultural power to insist that they be worn. It seems to me in much of Africa (and much of the rest of the world) the real problem with AIDS is woman dont have any real power over their bodies. Women don't have the social standing to say no. No sex or no sex without a condom. Do you suppose a prostitute in Zimbabwe has the right to insist her customer wears a condom? Until you educate and empower women you aren't going to control aids...unless you come up with a real effective vaccine. I guess with a vaccine you could control the disease and not care f-all about the lives of the people in Africa. It seems to me that its possible the Catholic church has an opportunity to make a positive impact, other than passing out free condoms that no one will use. Condoms won't solve this problem. In my opinion its unlikely that anything will in much of sub-sahara africa. Long term say over the next 100 years and after millions of deaths, a return to religious values, however quaint they may seem, may be the only real soluton. Short of a vaccine, which looks unlikely.
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Re: Pope's condom stance sparks row - Wonder why......

Post by Cat Driver »

If we are to use the Bible as a guide for our sexual habits it would stand to reason that incest is acceptable.

Will keeping your sexual encounters within the family protect you from AIDS as long as the family follows the religious doctrine?
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Re: Pope's condom stance sparks row - Wonder why......

Post by grimey »

Stinson4118C wrote:Intellectually the Pope is 100% correct. You can't get AIDS if you don't have sex. And if you AND your partner follow Catholic precepts, marry as virgins and don't have extra marital affairs, you also are 100% protected from AIDS and any other STD.
Several thousand people in Canada with Hep-C would disagree with you, but that's getting way off topic.
So it seems to me the teachings of the Popes church are 100% valid. What else to you expect from the leader of a church? He should actively promote something his church doesn't believe in? Anyway where do you think these religious ideas about virgin marriage and staying faithful came from?? Until antibiotics there were a whole host of sex diseases that could kill you. Remember how Al Capone died? All religions share these very practical ideas.
Yes, but not all religions ignore the simple fact that their followers aren't as pure of faith as they're expected to be. But given the priesthood's reputation in North America, I guess they've got plenty of practice in ignoring reality. Should the Catholic church be advocating that everyone use condoms, and forget abstinence, forget testing? No. But condoms are part of the solution, as are monogamy, regular testing, cheap anti-retroviral drugs, and education. The Catholic church comes off as pushing one of those solutions, and ignoring or subverting the other 4.
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Re: Pope's condom stance sparks row - Wonder why......

Post by grimey »

Also, the Pope isn't "100% factually correct". He claimed that condom use could worsen the problem, as they would presumably encourage people to have sex, and aren't 100% effective. This ignores the reality that 1) the people are having lots of sex anyway, that's why there's an epidemic, and 2) a 5% or so risk of infection is way better than a 50% or so risk (or whatever the numbers are).
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Last edited by grimey on Sun Mar 22, 2009 2:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pope's condom stance sparks row - Wonder why......

Post by Siddley Hawker »

Listen up people, when it comes to fighting AIDS let's not forget beets and lemons.

http://www2.canada.com/montrealgazette/ ... 4c68ecdddb
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Re: Pope's condom stance sparks row - Wonder why......

Post by 2R »

Pax Vobis
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Re: Pope's condom stance sparks row - Wonder why......

Post by ottawa,kan »

I'm just saying promoting condoms is sort of ridiculous if no one wears them. Just as ridiculous as promoting abstinence I suppose. Both solutions are incredibly naive. And even if condoms were used, if Sulako is correct that they are 90% effective, then you have a 10% chance of disease every time you use one with an infected partner. Pretty soon you are infected anyway. Not as quickly but just as inevitabley.
Grimey is right as usual. You can get a blood born pathogen even with 100% constant virginity. IV drug use and blood transfusions are two other methods. Its interesting that in the US and Canada Aids is almost exclusively a disease of homosexual men and IV drug users. Very rarely is it transmitted among non IV drug using heterosexuals. But in Africa and parts of asia, its just the opposite. Strange huh?
As for Cat, not being religious I can't call up the part of the bible that promotes incest. But I suppose that would be risk free behavior as long as your kiddies were faithful.
Aids in africa is going to be a horrible horrible problem until we develop a vaccine or peoples behavior changes radically. Condoms are just as silly a solution as abstinence. And cheap retrovirals are too, if you don't have a society where they can be taken safely, reliably and regularly. Otherwise you'll just promote rapid resistance in the pathogen. Like we have with TB.
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Re: Pope's condom stance sparks row - Wonder why......

Post by Sheila »

"Leave my Pope alone".

Pope decries "clouds of evil" over Africa at Mass
13 hours ago

LUANDA, Angola (AP) — Pope Benedict XVI celebrated Mass Sunday with an estimated one million Angolans and decried the "clouds of evil" over Africa that have spawned war, tribalism and ethnic rivalry that reduce poor people to slavery.

The biggest crowd of Benedict's seven day pilgrimage to Africa turned up in sweltering heat for the open-air service on the outskirts of Angola's seaside capital, Luanda, the last major event before the end of the visit on Monday.

"How true it is that war can destroy everything of value", Benedict said mopping his sweaty brow with a white handkerchief.

Evils in Africa have "reduced the poor to slavery and deprived future generations of the resources needed to create a more solid and just society," he said.

Benedict told the crowds clustered in a huge vacant lot near a cement factory that he regretted the deaths of two women who were trampled in a stampede at a stadium Saturday before his address to young Angolans.

He extended his condolences to the victims' families and wished those injured a speedy recovery. Vatican spokesman the Rev. Federico Lombardi said the two 20-year-old women were trampled when gates opened at a Luanda stadium and the died later in hospital.

The spokesman said the Vatican's No. 2 official Cardinal Tarcisio Pertone will visit some 40 injured people in hospital.
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Re: Pope's condom stance sparks row - Wonder why......

Post by grimey »

Stinson4118C wrote:I'm just saying promoting condoms is sort of ridiculous if no one wears them. Just as ridiculous as promoting abstinence I suppose. Both solutions are incredibly naive. And even if condoms were used, if Sulako is correct that they are 90% effective, then you have a 10% chance of disease every time you use one with an infected partner. Pretty soon you are infected anyway. Not as quickly but just as inevitabley.
They're part of the solution, they're not a panacea. Without education, testing, and drugs to fight the infections with, sub-saharan africa is screwed. And Sulako said they reduce the risk of infection by 90 percent. The risk isn't 100% for unprotected sex. It's dependent on your sex, the viral load of the infected person, what kind of sex you're having, and some other factors.
Grimey is right as usual. You can get a blood born pathogen even with 100% constant virginity. IV drug use and blood transfusions are two other methods. Its interesting that in the US and Canada Aids is almost exclusively a disease of homosexual men and IV drug users. Very rarely is it transmitted among non IV drug using heterosexuals. But in Africa and parts of asia, its just the opposite. Strange huh?
And if AIDS had originated in North America, rather than initially being introduced to the gay communities on the west coast, and blacks via Haiti, we'd have similar demographics. The demographics to a large extent the result of the first person to bring it over here. When HIV was first noticed in North America, it wasn't called AIDS, it was GRID, for Gay-Related Immuno Deficiency. They changed it when it was discovered that being gay had @#$! all to do with the disease except for the initial vector (a gay man), lack of condom usage, and the lack of monogamous relationships.
As for Cat, not being religious I can't call up the part of the bible that promotes incest. But I suppose that would be risk free behavior as long as your kiddies were faithful.
Abraham married his half sister, and both of Lot's daughers got him drunk to get them pregnant. Genesis 19 and 20. Yes, I had to look up the chapter numbers. No, I don't think it's relevant to the conversation, or that it should be used to judge modern-day Christians.
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Re: Pope's condom stance sparks row - Wonder why......

Post by ... »

Cat Driver wrote:If we are to use the Bible as a guide for our sexual habits it would stand to reason that incest is acceptable.

Will keeping your sexual encounters within the family protect you from AIDS as long as the family follows the religious doctrine?
Brilliant :D

-----break break-----

Men wearing costumes living in castles making up rules as they go that are being taken seriously by seemingly normal, respectable intelligent professionals all over the world always baffles me.

People wailing at a wall and a small strip of a dirt (aka as Gaza), are willing to die for it or worse, kill children for it always interests me.

Grown men that are willing to blow themselves up for the highly unlikely promise that they will have have pussy in the after life...is the only reason why I tune to watch CNN.


Religion...is a lie....AND "There's probably no God... now stop worrying and enjoy your life ..."


The Hour: Religulous
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbA16i1g ... re=related
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Re: Pope's condom stance sparks row - Wonder why......

Post by Jastapilot »

Preach it, Brother! +1 for IABD.
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