Fedex cargo crash in Tokyo

[Donald]

I can't believe the nose gear leg is still attached, that is impressive.

[flyinthebug]

In the video that mcconnell14 just posted, the newscaster states TWICE that the "Pilot & Co-Pilot have been rescued and their condition is unknown".. Could the crew really have made it through something that catastrophic?

My best thoughts are with them!

Quite the sad day today for aviation. Seems were saying this far to often these days.

Fly safe all!

[Donald]

Watch this video of an MD-11 crosswind landing at Narita. Note the movement of the nose, after touchdown when the spoilers first deploy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWZzxqQMoro

[mcconnell14]

In the video that mcconnell14 just posted, the newscaster states TWICE that the "Pilot & Co-Pilot have been rescued and their condition is unknown".. Could the crew really have made it through something that catastrophic?

My best thoughts are with them!

Quite the sad day today for aviation. Seems were saying this far to often these days.

Fly safe all!

yea I noticed that too..Hoping for the best.

And im i've heard so many reports, saying that the MD-11 is a very tough plane to land, compared to others in its size range. Why is That?

[Rubberbiscuit]

Sadly, it sounds like the initial reports where correct. Both pilots perished in the crash. This out an hour ago:

FedEx Crash That Killed 2 Is Its First Fatal Accident (Update2)
Share | Email | Print | A A A

By Mary Jane Credeur and Chris Cooper

March 23 (Bloomberg) -- FedEx Corp., the world’s largest cargo airline, suffered its first fatal accident with the crash of a Boeing Co. MD-11 jet at Tokyo’s Narita airport that killed both pilots.

Flight 80 from Guangzhou, China, was trying to land today when the incident occurred amid strong winds at 6:49 a.m. local time, Japan’s transport ministry said. FedEx identified the captain as Kevin Kyle Mosley, 54, of Hillsboro, Oregon, and the first officer as Anthony Stephen Pino, 49, of San Antonio.

FedEx hadn’t previously suffered deaths involving its own employees or one of its own planes since the Memphis, Tennessee- based company’s airline unit was created 37 years ago, spokesman Maury Lane said in a telephone interview. Contractors flying for FedEx have been involved in fatal crashes.

“It can get very gusty at Narita because it’s near the water, and the winds can change rapidly,” said Vaughn Cordle, a retired pilot who flew Boeing 777s into the airport for more than a decade and now runs consulting firm AirlineForecasts LLC in Clifton, Virginia. “There could have been a sudden wind burst or a downdraft.”

Winds at the time were from the northwest at 33 miles per hour (53 kilometers per hour), according to the U.S. National Weather Service.

TV Images

Images on Japan’s NTV news channel showed the MD-11 catapulting to the left and bursting into flames before it broke apart. Dozens of firefighters sprayed charred portions of the jet, which came to rest with its landing gear pointing toward the sky.

“Right now our focus is on doing everything we can to assist the family and those affected at this difficult time,” Chief Executive Officer Fred Smith, FedEx’s founder, said in a statement. “This loss pains all of us.”

The U.S. National Transportation Safety Board said it sent a team of investigators to assist Japanese officials. Also en route were representatives of the Federal Aviation Administration, Boeing and the Air Line Pilots Association, the union that represents FedEx’s 4,400 pilots.

Mosley had worked for FedEx since 1996, with 12,800 total career flight hours, the company said. Pino joined FedEx in 2006 and had 6,300 career flight hours.

FedEx hasn’t said how much of the cargo on the Tokyo flight can be recovered.

Narita Disruptions

Today’s crash forced Japan Airlines Corp. and All Nippon Airways Co., the nation’s largest carriers, to cancel a total of 38 flights after the Tokyo airport closed the longer of its two runways. Planes were still operating on the second landing strip, according to airport spokesman Masaru Fujisaki.

It was the first fatal accident at Narita, Japan’s busiest international airport.

FedEx, the second-largest U.S. package-shipper behind United Parcel Service Inc., had 58 MD-11s as of November, according to its Web site. The company had about 580 planes in its main fleet and leases 96 more, according to its most recent annual report.

The leased aircraft are typically flown by contractors who ferry packages from smaller cities into FedEx’s sorting hubs. FedEx contractors have been involved in fatal accidents before, including a leased Cessna 208 turboprop plane that crashed in 2005 near Winnipeg, Manitoba, killing the pilot.

The MD-11 model was produced by Boeing’s McDonnell Douglas division between 1990 and 2001 when the model was discontinued, according to the Chicago-based planemaker’s Web site. Boeing acquired McDonnell Douglas Corp. in 1997.

U.S. air carriers are flying 107 MD-11s, with cargo- carrying versions accounting for 102 of those aircraft, according to the Ascend Online Fleets database.

Thoughts and prayers go out to families and friends of the pilots involved. R.I.P.

[ehbuddy]

For whats its worth........

I guess if you look at the big picture of this horrible accident it could have been much worse.

The MD11 could have hit another aircraft that was taxiing, hit the terminal building or in the most drastic case.........this could have been a passenger MD11.

[crazy_aviator]

Can we see possible simularities betwen this accident and the A-340 in Melbourne ?
Does any pilot out there have the balls to suggest "PILOT ERROR" or is our little fraternity like the Police fraternity ( Protect your own at ANY cost , even if it involves breaking the regulations that the police are there to enforce! )
Sure, contributing factors are involved in both accidents but WHY ? Why not do a go-around at Narito?, Why not slam the throttles to the wall when 8 THOUSAND feet have passed and the Airbus feels like a turtle with 3 brocken legs ? WHY ? Why not FLY the friggin Boeing 737-800 instead of having a testosterone session in the cockpit ( Alpha dog - little dog) ( Turkey) , Why soo much testosterone floating around in the cockpit ? A " I can do it at all costs" immature attitude ! Why would ANY pilot congratulate the Airbus pilots for "saving the day" by FLYING the plane back to the runway DUH !!! End of rant ! Fire away !!

[metal]

Did you read TTJJ's post on the other page?

[stratcat]

What runway were they landing?72 km isnt that much wind for the most part. 35 knots or so and if it was down the runway thats not bad. I wonder about load shifting or something else. Maybe it is just a bad recovery from a bounced landing that broke the fuel tanks. Anyway bad stuff.

[AeroDiaz]

First:
Thoughts and prayers are with the crew's families.

Second:
TTJJ, that's an excellent post.

[fogghorn]

I think TTJJ's post on pg 1 indicates this is a difficult aircraft to land at the best of times. Very tragic.

[Donald]

From Aviation Herald:

On Tuesday the JTSB reported, that 9 flights had landed preceding the Fedex MD-11 with no trouble. However, 7 of those 9 crews reported wind shear between 1800 feet and the runway elevation, the first report was issued at 06:15 local. The tower noticed windspeed changes of up to 20 knots associated with those reports. The Fedex flight landed while the same wind conditions existed as for those 7 flights.

I would assume that Fedex, like most large operators, has a line in their SOP's to the effect of "Landing shall not be attempted when windshear is reported."

However, with 9 successful landings ahead of you...

[Donald]

And of course, no mention of whether or not what the "tower noticed" was reported to the inbound crews, as well as the windshear reports (besides the fact that one metar noted windshear for a different approach).

[...]

TTJJ, I just wanted to close the loop on your thoughts regarding the initial stages of the landing with regards to the excellent information you posted here.

I'm having a hard time finding footage of the aircraft flying over "the numbers" just before any initial contact to the ground. With ALL things being equal with regards to the challenging landing procedures of this aircraft, can you offer an explination in your professional opinion and also being typed on this aircraft if you feel there was any other factor PRIOR to the initial hard landing of the mains and nose gear coming down hard that could have contributed to the aircraft "getting away" from them on the attemped roll-out?

The crew was experienced and had respectable time on the bird.

[swordfish]

Second:TTJJ, that's an excellent post.

x2

[Flybabe]

I knew about this incident but hadn't seen any footage until just now. Man.. I feel pretty sick.

[TTJJ]

Thanks for the nice comments.

I would like to clarify something. The MD-11 is not a difficult aircraft to land. It is just a little different because of the engine in the tail.

If you look at a photo of the plane, you will see that the #2 engine is not parallel to the longitudinal axis of the aircraft.
This is because the whole engine is so far in the rear of the aircraft that they needed to force the nose down using thrust from that engine.
During power reductions/flare, the pitch controls become light and the nose rises because the #2 engine becomes "dead weight".

The geometry of the aircraft is such that you cannot land in a cross wind with any wing low sideslip. You will drag the wingtip on the ground.
Due to its length, you also cannot pitch up more than about 12 degrees or you will hit the tail.

With those things in mind, a normal landing consists of:

At 50 ft RA the auto-throttles start to retard.

At 30 ft RA the throttles are at idle and you start your flare. You hold your crab for crosswind compensation until the flare. (This can be very unsettleing. The Loc. antenna is on the vertical stabilizer. IT will be on centerline but YOU might very well be over the runway lights.)

So you start your flare, kick the plane straight, compensate for the slight sink, keep the wings level, listen to the Radio Altimeter "Lady" call 30, 20, 10...hold whatever picture you have out your front window at "10" and wait for the ground to come up. You can't keep rotating after "10 ft" because the main gear is behind the center of rotation of the aircraft. You would be maintaining altitude but forcing the main gear downwards and slamming it into the runway.

If you are really good, just before main gear touchdown you start to push the nose down and "roll" the aircraft onto the runway.

You also do not want to delay the aircraft at “10” because you have no side slip and you will drift off the runway.

This all has to happen really quick, but it is not hard to do. If it was difficult MD-11's would be crashing every week.

It is very difficult to really plant the MD-11 because it has so much wing and flap. It creates a very large cushion of air under you.

Of course, if you blow your flare or try to push the nose over a little too high it gets rather ugly.

If you blow the flare, you would be trying to get the aircraft down without hitting the tail and in a crosswind trying to get back on centerline without dragging a wingtip in a low energy state with the engines at idle. To its credit, the engines on this aircraft wake up VERY FAST and they can get you out of any situation. (As a side note, stall recovery of this aircraft does not require lowering the nose. The engines will drag you out of the stall while maintaining your pitch.)

Pushing it over too high and you come down a little hard, but nothing to write home about.

I, like you, did not see the initial part of the landing flare.

Although I appreciate the question, it would be inappropriate for me to speculate as to what happened during the initial part of the landing sequence. Sorry to disappoint you. After all, who am I to second guess a pair of highly trained pilots who probable have 100's of landings under their belts.

All I can tell you for sure is that something did not go as briefed...


To the crew...RIP

[flyinthebug]

TTJJ.. Thank you again for such an informative post.

I just wanted to add one thought.. From what I can see in the video it would appear that they touched down SHORT of the numbers and infact kicked up some sand/dirt from just beyond the threshold? It "appears" that they ballooned after the first touchdown and thats when it seemed to "get away" from them?.. Your thoughts TTJJ? Anyone else see what im seeing in the vid?

Either way, my condolences to the family and friends of the crew.
GBNF
Fly safe all.

[TTJJ]

That seems to be just smoke from the main gear tires at touchdown. That is normal.

I just watched it about 30 times.

It is hard to see because of the tail of the parked aircraft, but it does seem that the aircraft skipped slightly on landing.

Skipping is no big deal. You are very close to the ground and you just hold your flare with maybe a little bit of power and land with a bruised ego.

Bouncing is bad. You are high off the ground and you have lost a lot of energy because of the impact. You need to agressively recover/go around.

If the aircraft in fact skipped and the pilot started lowering the nose for a normal landing...well it is going to be a big hit.
The aircraft would be in a flat attitude close to the ground and sinking fast.

If someone then tried to recover (not from the skip but from the upcoming hit) by pulling back, that would slam the mains into the runway, CAUSING a bounce.

Either way, not very pretty

[...]

Thanks TTJJ...that was awesome.

Yeah, I was hoping there was a better clip of just before the aircraft flew over the numbers to offer a clearer "assumption".

However, you're right, looks like there may have been some events that went outside of the parameters of their briefing.

*edit to add the following*

Just reading your second post just above mine...I see what you're getting at. I too see that. However, I'm having a hard time believing this experienced crew on this aircraft was "having a bad day" There has to be something else to the puzzle.

Anyway, thanks again man!!!

[mattedfred]

Release #09.009
March 23, 2009

ALPA Statement on FedEx Express Accident

WASHINGTON – The following statement was issued by the Air Line Pilots Association, Int’l (ALPA), in response to the FedEx Express accident on March 23 at Narita International Airport in Tokyo, Japan.

“ALPA pilots stand together in mourning the loss of the two pilots in the FedEx Express accident. Our deepest sympathies are with the families and friends of our ALPA union brothers. The ALPA family has come together in the face of this tragedy to offer assistance and support to the members of FedEx Express council of our union. ALPA will be fully engaged in the accident investigation through the U.S. National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) under International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) Annex 13. As the accident investigation is in progress, ALPA cannot offer any additional comment at this time.”

[TTJJ]

I'm having a hard time believing this experienced crew on this aircraft was "having a bad day" There has to be something else to the puzzle.

There is nothing strange about having a "bad day". We all have them. We are after all, just human.

I would go so far as to say that having a "bad day"...a "really bad day" is a prerequisite for survival in Aviation. It is good to be reminded once in a while of just how close a normal, "safe", operation is to the abyss. It keeps you honest.

While I love an educated, lively exchange of ideas as much as the next guy, I find that I have been doing that which I said I would not. I have been "speculating" as to the cause of the accident.

I believe this to be totally inappropriate at this time as the families involved are still grieving.

I therefore apologize to the memories of our fallen comrades and I shall withdraw from further public comment on this tragic event for now.

RIP

[...]

While I love an educated, lively exchange of ideas as much as the next guy, I find that I have been doing that which I said I would not. I have been "speculating" as to the cause of the accident.

I don't think you've been speculating however if you feel you had been, you're doing it with the highest level of class and respect to the crews' families as I have ever seen on this site.

Check your PM's

[AeroDiaz]

While I love an educated, lively exchange of ideas as much as the next guy, I find that I have been doing that which I said I would not. I have been "speculating" as to the cause of the accident.

I don't think you've been speculating however if you feel you had been, you're doing it with the highest level of class and respect to the crews' families as I have ever seen on this site.

X 2