Tailwheel training around Toronto

[iflyforpie]

One of the saddest things I heard was the demise of the Taylorcraft I learned taildragger in. The owner sold it to an AME who was going to use it for flight training. I guess his 'instructor' didn't have enough (or any) tail wheel time because it wasn't two weeks after we delivered the aircraft that it was wrecked.

[Hedley]

Typical. A guy at my home airport bought a Kitfox. He
went to the most experienced ultralight instructor around
here - with thousands of hours - and they bent the fuselage
on their first landing attempt.

Turns out the "highly experienced" ultralight instructor had
no tailwheel time.

[Tango01]

Wow! They really do suck in the US with the spin training!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLsbOuu56dw

[Hedley]

Here's how you do it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQkk0JLjEJY

[Tango01]

LOL, wrong post, it was supposed to go somewhere else! Anyway, good vid H

[TripleBFlyboy]

Burlington Airpark offers training on a PA-18 super cub. The instructor is always available for training.

if you have +150hrs the course will cost appx $2200

Call Spectrum Airways @ 905 336 4010

Or visit the website for further details http://www.spectrumairways.com

OR you could always visit the Spectrum Airways kiosk at the Canadian Aviation Expo in YHM this May

BBB

[mattedfred]

$2200 for a check out on a tail wheel? i did 0.7 in a champ for $40 when i got checked out and that was only 17 years ago.

[mattedfred]

.

[TripleBFlyboy]

ONLY 17 years ago?....

Price includes POH, Ground school (theory and dynamics) for tailwheel a/c
8 hrs upper airwork
and 2 hrs solo

Call them up, I'm sure the instructor is flexible with special requests

BBB

[mattedfred]

why would you need 8 hours of upper air work if you were already checked out in a nosewheel?

isn't the landing and takeoff the reason for the checkout?

[TripleBFlyboy]

Why would anyone only want to take an aircraft up into the cct? doesn't seem practical, or safe. Intimate knowledge of the aircrafts handling and flight characteristics will make a world of difference in any individuals landings/take-offs/emergency situations. This factors into the spectrums super cub being in the imacculate shape it is in. With no previous accidents. These times also factor insurance prices and prerequisites.

Correct me if I'm wrong, and I'm sure you will, but insurance for a tailwheel are outrageous. Due to high risk pilots and numerous accidents.

Keep in mind it is a training school. They train pilots.

Let's keep this to helping nightbird find a place to do some tailwheel training.

Nightbird, happy and safe flying.

[mattedfred]

then maybe we should start a new thread

why waste 8 hours doing upper air work when the reason the insurance rates are so high is because pilots can't land or takeoff in them?

this isn't a type rating

would you recommend a $2200 course on every type of aircraft? i.e. C140 to C210

i did my float rating for less

i'm not saying that the hourly rate or the checkout should be the same as a nosewheel but the numbers seem high to me

[TripleBFlyboy]

Mattedfred, I value your opinion and history lesson. However this is all irrelevant. Let's keep it to the year 2009.

Paying $7000 for an instructor rating would seem high to you too, I'm sure. But it's the reality. I'm betting 25 years ago you could get one for less than $1000.

My post count shows that I don't come on here and post needlessly. Just helping a fellow pilot. Spam free.

[Big Pistons Forever]

This is a symptom of a larger problem in the flight training industry, the idea that proficency comes from "X" hrs of training, rather than a purely competancy based appraoch. I did a tailwheel check out that took over 15 hrs, with 8 of those hours all done as upper airwork. The reason is the guy lacked basic flying skills so there was no way I was going to let him get close to the ground untill he could demonstrate he could fly the airplane instead of having the airplane fly him. On the the other hand a tailwheel checkout for a guy who had a lot of float time took less than 3 hrs. BTW the first 40 - 60 min of all my checkouts is devoted to taxing properly and then working up to raising the tail and cutting the power and slowing to taxi speed on the runway.

[Hedley]

Exactly. I tend to cringe when homebuilt owners come to
me, asking for a "tailwheel checkout". Often they haven't
flown much in 10 years - and probably only had 100TT
before that - and so can't honestly even handle a 172, let
alone a taildragger.

Often a "tailwheel checkout" results in a complete refresher
course.

Other people don't require any instruction at all, even
if they haven't flown the (tailwheel) type.

[fleet16b]

First off , there are many excellent tailwheel pilots out there that are more than competent enough to check you out. More of them to choose from than there are instructors
You do not need a certified Instructor to do this.
$2200 is ridiculous and if we go ahead with our idea , Burlington will not get many sign ups considering we are in the same area.
As for insurance, we are doing a check out and if I am not mistaken the pilot being checked out will be able to use his own insurance as long as it is the proper policy.
We have a newly restored Aeronca Champ to c/out the check outs.
At 4.5 gph plus , there is no way the bill will be $2200. Most likely half that .
Mind you we also will not consider anyone with less than 150 hrs and will stipulate no solo as we only have one a/c.
From past experience, 8 hrs is more than plenty.
One Example: I did 4 hrs dual. Then for my first solo, took off flew the a/c (J3) from Lake Simcoe to Burlington , did my first solo landing there. Gassed up and departed to my home base. All this sanctioned by a certified Instructor.
He has been doing tailwheel check outs for years...no problems.
Lets try to keep it simple people. There are exceptions to the rule but come on most 150 hr pilots are at least fairley competent.
Flying schools that are offering tailwheel courses ? Well thats fine but a bit of overkill IMHO.

[Big Pistons Forever]

Fleet16b. Sending folks solo in your airplane is putting your money where your mouth is. Since the renter pilot is providing the insurance why the no solo restriction ?

[fleet16b]

BPF

We only have one a/c to do this training.
While we are fully confident that we can properly check people out, there are still unforseen situations that can happen and leave us with no a/c to train in.
Paul K has the luxury of not having to worry about the a/c as much.
His insurace looks after it . Besides he has 3-4 more Cubs that will replace the Super Cub.

[Adam Oke]

When I learned to fly a taildragger (Luscombe) with l_reason, I had no issue what so ever only flying dual. There really is no reason to be flying PIC on someone else baby. You're there to learn how to fly a taildragger. Not for time building in a taildragger, or wrapping up a PPL/CPL in a taildragger. Even still, for some aircraft, a check-out will simply not be near enough hours to please the insurance company.

It really only takes a handful of hours to figure out a taildragger. Learning in an old twitchy taildragger also makes transition training to more docile aircraft made easy. In such little amount of time to learn, don't you want to maximize the opportunity to have that experience sitting right next to you?

[fleet16b]

Well said

[TripleBFlyboy]

don't you want to maximize the opportunity to have that experience sitting right next to you?

You mean 'behind ' you ?

[Adam Oke]

don't you want to maximize the opportunity to have that experience sitting right next to you?

You mean 'behind ' you ?

I think you're confused. A Luscombe has a side by side seating arrangement. If you're fond of dirty jokes, than maybe you should become a glider instructor.

Glider instructors take students from behind, and make them soar.

[fleet16b]

[/quote]Glider instructors take students from behind, and make them soar. [/quote]

LOL very funny I'd never heard that one

[Hedley]

no solo restriction ?

Anyone who feels strongly that tailwheel aircraft should
be flown solo by inexperienced pilots should volunteer
their tailwheel aircraft for the job

Apparently hardly anyone does - trying to find an FTU
which does ab initio training on tailwheel is pretty hard.

[TripleBFlyboy]

TripleBFlyboy wrote:
Quote:
don't you want to maximize the opportunity to have that experience sitting right next to you?


You mean 'behind ' you ?


I think you're confused. A Luscombe has a side by side seating arrangement. If you're fond of dirty jokes, than maybe you should become a glider instructor.

Glider instructors take students from behind, and make them soar.

LOL, sorry, was in the mind-set of the cub.