Ditched ATR pilot paused to pray, convicted

[linecrew]

http://www.reuters.com/article/oddlyEno ... 3B20090325

Crash pilot who paused to pray is convicted
Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:36pm EDT

PALERMO (Reuters) - A Tunisian pilot who paused to pray instead of taking emergency measures before crash-landing his plane, killing 16 people, has been sentenced to 10 years in jail by an Italian court along with his co-pilot.

The 2005 crash at sea off Sicily left survivors swimming for their lives, some clinging to a piece of the fuselage that remained floating after the ATR turbo-prop aircraft splintered upon impact.

A fuel-gauge malfunction was partly to blame but prosecutors also said the pilot succumbed to panic, praying out loud instead of following emergency procedures and then opting to crash-land the plane instead trying to reach a nearby airport.

Another five employees of Tuninter, a subsidiary of Tunisair, were sentenced to between eight and nine years in jail by the court, in a verdict handed down Monday.

The seven accused, who were not in court, will not spend time in jail until the appeals process has been exhausted.

(Writing by Phil Stewart)

[Doc]

I don't see a problem here. I always turn the airplane towards Mecca and chant incantations when ever something goes wrong. You mean to tell me this is not SOP everywhere? God is Great!

[trey kule]

Actually Doc, our SOP's call for "making a deal to get through this"

As his method did not seem to work out to well, you might want to rethink your SOP's, submit them through the SMS system, and change them to ours.

So far, for 40+ years they have worked for me 100% of the time. Not only that, but I have occasionally been able to make the same deal a few times after failing to live up to my past deal obligations.

Its a win-win..You get through the problem and become a better person and a credit to society.

[767]

Good. However, 10 years is not enough for his actions. He needs more sentencing.. I dont know if the co-pilot should be sentenced, unless he/she was also involved.

[Doc]

Good. However, 10 years is not enough for his actions. He needs more sentencing.. I dont know if the co-pilot should be sentenced, unless he/she was also involved.

His co-pilot was still going through YOUR pre take off checklist. Poor guy wasn't even in the air yet!

[Rubberbiscuit]

I've been saying it for nearly 20 years.... there is no room for religion on the flight deck!

Flame away...........

[Doc]

I've been saying it for nearly 20 years.... there is no room for religion on the flight deck!

Flame away...........

Other than the odd....."God, if you get me out of this, I'll do church......"
I agree 100%

[ski_bum]

PF - Engine Failure number 1... Go ahead the emergency drill...
PNF - ..."God please bring my #1 engine back, and look after me and my airplane, if you can't bring it back, can you maybe feather it and secure it and then maybe declare and emergency for me and let the FA know whats going on... then maybe you could guide us with your light to a safe landing... blah blah blah"

WTF. d

[mabcan]

Here is the CVR audio file : [url]mms://play.ansa.it/interviste/atr1.wma[/url]

And the final report : http://www.ansv.it/En/Detail.asp?ID=1083

[flying4dollars]

I've been saying it for nearly 20 years.... there is no room for religion on the flight deck!

Flame away...........

[Pratt X 3]

What utter nonsense!! Once again the media couldn't report an unbiased story to save their lives. I skimmed through the accident report that was linked above. Then I listened to the CVR recording (the last 5 minutes at least) via YouTube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZSGw51ZkmA Finally I read the thread about this topic on PPRUNE. That's where I found this:

^BC-EU--Italy-Pilots Sentenced,0357<
^Pilots' group blasts Italy over air crash trial<
¶ BRUSSELS (AP) _ The international pilots' association on Wednesday denounced the long prison sentences given to the pilot and co-pilot of a charter flight that crashed off Sicily in 2005 killing 16 people.
¶ "Once again the compulsion to apportion blame has outweighed the greater need to improve the safety of air transport," said a statement released by the London-based International Federation of Airline Pilots' Associations.
¶ The federation said that a court in Palermo, Italy, on Monday convicted the two pilots of manslaughter and sentenced them to 10 years each. It also sentenced five other people, including executives of the Tunisian charter operator, to lesser prison terms.
¶ Italian aviation authorities say the ATR-72 went down Aug. 6, 2005, after running out of fuel, because the fuel gauge on the plane was the wrong model and did not show that the fuel tanks were nearly empty.
¶ The judges determined that the captain lost control of the situation. According to the plane's cockpit voice recorder, he ceded command of the plane to his co-pilot and began praying, Italian media reported.
¶ But the federation said the flight crew reacted to the loss of power in a textbook fashion and completed a successful ditching at sea. Under international accident investigation rules such circumstances would not be grounds for a criminal prosecution.
¶ Italy has been criticized in the past for its stance on accident related prosecutions and "this case provides another example of this policy," said Gideon Ewers, the group's spokesman.
¶ The pilots' federation "calls on the Italian Government to act now to amend the laws which continue to have a detrimental effect on air safety, and in doing so improve the safety of the traveling public," he said.
¶

Makes me want to avoid piloting an aircraft anywhere near Italy. I hope this isn't the type of thing that we have to look forward to here in Canada.

[Vickers vanguard]

paused to pray ? what's wrong with this Judge ? I listened to the CVR file and I can't see how better they could have done it. What prayer are they talking about ? I didn't hear anything in the last 5 minutes of the flight other than : " oh my god ! and similar stuff. It's not like the guys took a whole minute or two to pray and do nothing else.

[square]

That's weird, its always kept my single-pistons running at 35 below..

[Meatservo]

It's fun to make fun of religious people, isn't it? I particularly like to make fun of Muslims, because I feel threatened by them. No, really. I was just talking with my wife about this before I read this. I really can't abide the spread of Islam.

Still, the CVR recording was interesting to me, given that the only parts of it that seemed to be in intelligible english were the checklist. Sure, between checklist items he might have been muttering "Allah, if you help me survive this I swear I'll send my daughter away for a clitoridectomy and kill seventeen infidels", who knows, I don't speak Tunisian, but it sounded to me like the guy was doing some emergency stuff. This ten year in jail is preposterous. We all pray when we think we're going to die. Admit it.

Send the crew to jail for running out of fuel, if you like, but it doesn't seem to me that the pilots abandoned the checklist in favour of praying. Besides, if you're out of fuel over the sea, I would judge promises to Allah to be at least as effective as the checklist.

[CD]

Makes me want to avoid piloting an aircraft anywhere near Italy. I hope this isn't the type of thing that we have to look forward to here in Canada.

It's not just Italy... A number of countries judicial systems are taking precedence over Annex 13 investigations...

When a Tragedy Becomes a Crime: Prosecutors Probe Disasters
Criminal charges in aviation
Airlines, Pilots Say Safety Plan in Jeopardy

[g5]

This is absurd.

I remember when this happened, ATR 42 fuel gauges in a 72.

Ok so the pilot could have counted liters if he was paying attention, I'm sure I've taken on fuel without even so much as glancing at how many liters were put on.

Given the stressful situation they were in, I think it would have been hard to do a better job.

What's disgraceful is the Italian ATC.

Per favore, somebody teach these controllers English!

[L1011]

I heard about 10-15 seconds of what MAY have been prayer.

Would the Italian judge have done the same thing if they were Roman Catholic?

[2R]

Was he praying for himself or his passengers ?

The term prayer just means a pause to think and reflect,Pausing to evaluate the situation is often the correct thing to do in an emergency. Proper Prayer has very little to do with the incantations and invocations that some modern religions use.Some could be blindly praying to the darker forces with unintented consequences.If he was praying for himself perhaps the Lord of Darkness (not Lucan) spared him to torment him in jail.I especially love to watch people engaging in what would meet the definition of open devil worship in one religion .And when you mention it to them ,Rather than demonstrating the calm and peace of god's grace they get violent just like their dark master has trained them to do.

Most aircraft have a Jesus bolt ,when it lets go most people get instant religion.

Pax Vobis

[Just another canuck]

e all pray when we think we're going to die. Admit it.

True... and I think calling out for our mothers is also quite high on the list. I think the ten years is too much, but at the same time I've heard some pretty disturbing stories about these guys... during training mostly. For example, while blowing through the localizer and asked to correct, they would simply release the controls and start speaking in their native tongue. I've flown with a couple Muslim guys myself and it was the same thing... when in trouble they would just let go and throw their arms in the air. I'm not sure if it's lack of training or the Muslim mentality, but one thing is for sure... it's not safe.

[MichaelP]

If anyone has the facts I'd like the real story on an incident in the middle east many years ago.
What I understood from that time is that there was a fire in the hydraulics bay of the L1011... While this fire was creating toxic fumes in the passenger cabin the Tristar held while a royal family 727 did its approach and landed.
The Tristar landed but by that time all the passengers were dead, and the pilots, believing it was the will of A decided they must die too.
The aircraft taxied off the runway and everyone died.

Does anyone have the true story?

I learned about Islam and flying from this:
We were doing steep turns in the Cessna 152, the student was normally good at this but this particular afternoon he was all over the place, not safe at all!
"Oh, it's Ramadan!" I exclaimed.... I told this student that if he was going to starve himself all day, book the aeroplane in the morning.
I resolved to never fly on an Arab aeroplane at this time of the year. Muslims do tell me that they can put off their fasting when operating machinery, and fast some other day, but like being a Vegan, I see this as highly unhealthy for any pilot.
Religious rites are developed in the climate of the places they came from.
Fasting in the warm desert Sun is not the same as in the cold temperate climate we live in.

[Just another canuck]

We had a few pilots who were fasting for the entire month of Ramadan and they still flew, but were req'd to at least drink water. Needless to say, their flying skills among other things were sub-par. And it definitely made me nervous flying around on Garuda at this time... well all the time really, but more so during Ramadan.

[L1011]

If anyone has the facts I'd like the real story on an incident in the middle east many years ago.
What I understood from that time is that there was a fire in the hydraulics bay of the L1011... While this fire was creating toxic fumes in the passenger cabin the Tristar held while a royal family 727 did its approach and landed.
The Tristar landed but by that time all the passengers were dead, and the pilots, believing it was the will of A decided they must die too.
The aircraft taxied off the runway and everyone died.

Does anyone have the true story?

I learned about Islam and flying from this:
We were doing steep turns in the Cessna 152, the student was normally good at this but this particular afternoon he was all over the place, not safe at all!
"Oh, it's Ramadan!" I exclaimed.... I told this student that if he was going to starve himself all day, book the aeroplane in the morning.
I resolved to never fly on an Arab aeroplane at this time of the year. Muslims do tell me that they can put off their fasting when operating machinery, and fast some other day, but like being a Vegan, I see this as highly unhealthy for any pilot.
Religious rites are developed in the climate of the places they came from.
Fasting in the warm desert Sun is not the same as in the cold temperate climate we live in.

I've never heard that tall tale about Saudia 163...there were some very questionable decisions made by the crew, such as not evacuating immediately, but on top of that, the cabin was still at altitude on landing, the outflow valve motor was damaged by the fire, and therefore the doors could not be opened. I don't know if they discovered this after they decided to evacuate a couple of minutes after landing and the delay prevented them from rectifying the door situation, or if they would have never been able to open the doors, I don't know.

Well Michael, I'm sure you've heard plenty of Western ideas about pilots from the Orient that are also simply not true.

At least you'll never have to worry about your Islamic students showing up hung-over, or even still drunk! But there have been airline pilots in the States that have shown up to do flights still hammered in recent years. So if you don't fly on "Arab" airlines during Ramadan, does that mean you also don't fly on any Western carriers during/after happy hour? Again, it's an extreme, I'm just pointing out an unfair generalization. You DID say that fasting can be deferred when operating machinery. Some people are smarter than others and realize that you have to put safety ahead of other commitments, whether it would be religious fasting, or religious binge drinking because it's Friday night

[BTD]

http://www.airdisaster.com/special/special-sa163.shtml

That has a description of the accident.

I have read the full accident report before, but unfortunately I can't locate it right now.

BTD

[MichaelP]

I admit I've known more than a few airline pilots with drink problems!
But the fasting pilot is one that I consider more dangerous!
I have taught many people to fly and I have found that fasting has always resulted in less than ideal performance. I know myself in this regard too, and always try to ensure I have food in my stomach!
As for the drinking pilot... I've sent people home on three occasions or so during my last 30 odd years. (I've lost count on the number I've sent off to eat!).

Orient pilots....
Yes, I have concerns.
Curiously I have flown China Airlines many times without concern!
As for both the AC's, service is bad for both!

On one company I was obliged to send an e-mail... We did the ILS 36 approach in a 737 to Chiang Mai, breaking off to join downwind visual for 18.
The aircraft descended on the downwind, turned too early on the base, and was exceedingly low turning final. Made all the mistakes a student pilot might make, and I wish I was in the cockpit to sort it out... Basics are basics!
The Chedi was level with the port side as wings rocking and the engines up and down on the throttles we scraped onto the runway. The landing itself was actually not bad!
All the passengers were wide eyed and frightened, and what do they know?
Whereas I would at one time go out of my way to fly with that particular airline, I don't bother now!

I don't know which country has the safest pilots... Though I got on one of that particular airline's aircraft one time to hear the Captain come over the PA with a British accent (I'd wondered why one of the FA's was a blonde!), they'd leased a couple of aircraft from Britain and there was a certain comfort in that.

I do remember the chagrin of a retired 737 training captain over the number of go arounds when the glideslope was unserviceable at Chiang Mai, hand flying skills were a little off!

Thanks for that link BTD, it's always better to read the facts...
I wonder what was on the CVR if there was one?

[L1011]

Ask and you shall receive!

http://aviation-safety.net/investigatio ... _sv163.php

However, it stops after touchdown, which is the most interesting part and what I would most want to hear.