Monte leaves Air Canada

[yyz monkey]

A rampie can be replaced with a new hire after a 3 day course.

Try again. That three day training course allows them to throw bags under escort only. So, they have the option of working inbound or outbound baggage with a leash.

Ramp training is a six week course comprised of a mix of in-class and practical education with the sixth week being dedicated to having the employee shadow a crew in the operational environment.

Tack on another week of training when learning how to operate the loader.

A little more than that three day estimate.

[MUSKEG]

A week to learn to operate the loader?

[xsbank]

I love the "I'm more important than you" degeneration that this thread is taking. The sad thing is that if A/C bites it, you will all be out of work.

Blame each other for the company's failure when it was the management and the board of ACE that killed it. Then again, A/C was dead a couple of years ago and the looters saw a way to ride it to riches while the economy was cycling. Clever, really.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, "....No union ever killed a company."

Workers are mere fodder, useful sometimes and not others. I was cheered to see that the layoff announced a few weeks ago at Bombardier was announced by saying "...We are aligning our costs with the current market..." rather than saying, gee, we're really sorry that this had to happen, we had no choice but to lay you off and we really hope we can recall you soon, or some other such thing.

People/workers are expendable. What we need to do is like what Letterhead said, dispose of the seniority system in companies and have a 'college' of pilots aligned with a professional organization, similar to the Society of Professional Engineers or the doctors. We could do our own licensing like the CBAA and we would set wages and run apprenticeship programs like the carpenters. Run a hiring hall, closed shop. Have our own legal representation.

Get Widow to run it.

[yyz monkey]

A week to learn to operate the loader?

A day to learn how to operate it, four days to become somewhat proficient using it.

[yyz monkey]

I love the "I'm more important than you" degeneration that this thread is taking. The sad thing is that if A/C bites it, you will all be out of work.

My favorite analogy is one that Gordon Bethune used - and that was to compare the company to a fine Swiss watch and then ask the question which part of the watch was more important than the other.

I'm no less important than a pilot, but I'm not more important than one either. Without me, the bags don't get loaded/offloaded; the plane doesn't get water; doesn't get on/off the gate.

Without the pilots, the planes don't fly.

Without In-Flight, the customers don't get kept content on their journey.

Without CSSAs, the customer don't get much farther than the front door.

Take any one group out of the equation and things grind to a halt (or a snails pace since management would try to pick up the slack).

Blame each other for the company's failure when it was the management and the board of ACE that killed it.

Yup. 'Unlocking Shareholder Value' was code for 'line my pockets with your sacrifice and ride off into the sunset, while leaving you with no long-term viability'.

People/workers are expendable. What we need to do is like what Letterhead said, dispose of the seniority system in companies and have a 'college' of pilots aligned with a professional organization, similar to the Society of Professional Engineers or the doctors. We could do our own licensing like the CBAA and we would set wages and run apprenticeship programs like the carpenters. Run a hiring hall, closed shop. Have our own legal representation.

Get Widow to run it.

I'd rather see her clean house at TC. Maybe run the 'college' after she's done shining lights in all the dark corners there?

[sepia]

I love the "I'm more important than you" degeneration that this thread is taking. The sad thing is that if A/C bites it, you will all be out of work.

My favorite analogy is one that Gordon Bethune used - and that was to compare the company to a fine Swiss watch and then ask the question which part of the watch was more important than the other.

I'm no less important than a pilot, but I'm not more important than one either. Without me, the bags don't get loaded/offloaded; the plane doesn't get water; doesn't get on/off the gate.

Without the pilots, the planes don't fly.

Without In-Flight, the customers don't get kept content on their journey.

Without CSSAs, the customer don't get much farther than the front door.

Take any one group out of the equation and things grind to a halt (or a snails pace since management would try to pick up the slack).

Blame each other for the company's failure when it was the management and the board of ACE that killed it.

Yup. 'Unlocking Shareholder Value' was code for 'line my pockets with your sacrifice and ride off into the sunset, while leaving you with no long-term viability'.

People/workers are expendable. What we need to do is like what Letterhead said, dispose of the seniority system in companies and have a 'college' of pilots aligned with a professional organization, similar to the Society of Professional Engineers or the doctors. We could do our own licensing like the CBAA and we would set wages and run apprenticeship programs like the carpenters. Run a hiring hall, closed shop. Have our own legal representation.

Get Widow to run it.

I'd rather see her clean house at TC. Maybe run the 'college' after she's done shining lights in all the dark corners there?

yyz monkey: I don't believe the debate was about the ability of the airline to function without ramp workers etc. Everyone knows that if no one puts the bags into the plane, or no one is there to push the plane back, then the plane doesn't leave.

I believe the point raised was the ease of replacing a group. There are companies like Swissport or Globeground that could replace ground handling services at a lower cost, with arguably the same or better service. What does ACGHS bring to AC that an outside company couldn't? If AC is paying a premium what are they getting for it?

[Ghost Rider]

A week to learn to operate the loader?

A day to learn how to operate it, four days to become somewhat proficient using it.

Not sure how comfortable I would be having someone with one days worth of training loading my cargo hold.
Miss the wrong lock and disaster is waiting
http://www.aerospaceweb.org/aircraft/je ... 747_21.jpg

[Amateur Turbines]

yyzmonkey you are truly an idiot!!!!!!!!!!!! I once had a flight attendant ask me how long the ground school was for pilots at WJ I answered truthfully at 6 weeks she says "You mean for 2 weeks more I could have been a pilot"

Get a fuckin grip man you're throwin fuckin bags dude. Don't get me wrong I've been there done it but it ain't fuckin rocket science.

Everyday I go to work I save peoples lives!!!!!!!!!!

I don't care what you say, I'm on a high horse or whatever the @#$!! I'm only an FO and the amount of times that I've pulled us out of the shitter not to mention what I had to do at my previous employer......

Soooooooo what I'm getting at is ramp, csa, fa is all expendable they only effect OTP and the share holders don't care about that as much as they do a lost hull.

[roger.roger]

Everyday I go to work I save peoples lives!!!!!!!!!!

thanks dude I needed a good laugh

[WestCoast]

From what I learned in Business School....Money coming in has to be equal to, or greater than money going out. Otherwise you're in for a rough ride. It doesn't matter if you're a Manager, Pilot, Engineer, FA, ramp guy/girl, CSA, Shareholder. Best of luck everyone.

- WC

['79K20driver]

yyzmonkey you are truly an idiot!!!!!!!!!!!!

Everyday I go to work I save peoples lives!!!!!!!!!!

I'm only an FO and the amount of times that I've pulled us out of the shitter

oooh, we're not worthy!!

Um.... yeah.

I think you went INTO the shitter with this one!!

With this kind of drivel it's no wonder so many people think us pilots are a bunch of arrogant jerks.

Comments like this just make you look bad.

[C-FABH]

ITT: Trolls trolling trolls

[atpl53]

Everyday I go to work I save peoples lives!!!!!!!!!!

I think I've just taken my LAST flight on AC, if EVERY day F/O's are SAVING lives. If the current political (US vs THEM) mentality is affecting the flights, where they have to be SAVED, I'm thinking WJ for me.
When I fly I prefer to think that I am merely getting the limo from A to B, safely.

(And as a side note, I find your arrogance revolting. Guys...read that as GODs...like you are what create the one finger salute we get from all of those hard working and dedicated people, without whom, WE could not possibly get our jobs done.)

[PJ1]

yyzmonkey you are truly an idiot!!!!!!!!!!!! I once had a flight attendant ask me how long the ground school was for pilots at WJ I answered truthfully at 6 weeks she says "You mean for 2 weeks more I could have been a pilot"

Get a fuckin grip man you're throwin fuckin bags dude. Don't get me wrong I've been there done it but it ain't fuckin rocket science.

Everyday I go to work I save peoples lives!!!!!!!!!!

I don't care what you say, I'm on a high horse or whatever the @#$!! I'm only an FO and the amount of times that I've pulled us out of the shitter not to mention what I had to do at my previous employer......l.

Its a good thing that I actually know a few AC pilots and they'r all down to earth, reading shit like this just makes you all look bad. There is a very fine line between positive self asteem and arrogance. I think I know where you sit.

[linecrew]

A rampie can be replaced with a new hire after a 3 day course.

Try again. That three day training course allows them to throw bags under escort only. So, they have the option of working inbound or outbound baggage with a leash.

Ramp training is a six week course comprised of a mix of in-class and practical education with the sixth week being dedicated to having the employee shadow a crew in the operational environment.

Tack on another week of training when learning how to operate the loader.

A little more than that three day estimate.

Sweet Jeebuzz...who the hell is training these guys, the government??!! I've worked the same type of job with the same type of equipement for some of the same type of aircraft in half the amount training....or maybe we were just quick learners. Seems odd after that vast amount of training the ACA ground crews always seems to to among the pokiest folks on the ramp as personally witnessed from across the ramp or onbaord one of their flights holding off gate becasue they just aren't there to meet it (my biggest/most frequent pet peeve when it comes to flying on the airline)

[yfly]

yyzmonkey you are truly an idiot!!!!!!!!!!!! I once had a flight attendant ask me how long the ground school was for pilots at WJ I answered truthfully at 6 weeks she says "You mean for 2 weeks more I could have been a pilot"

Get a fuckin grip man you're throwin fuckin bags dude. Don't get me wrong I've been there done it but it ain't fuckin rocket science.

Everyday I go to work I save peoples lives!!!!!!!!!!

I don't care what you say, I'm on a high horse or whatever the @#$!! I'm only an FO and the amount of times that I've pulled us out of the shitter not to mention what I had to do at my previous employer......l.

Its a good thing that I actually know a few AC pilots and they'r all down to earth, reading shit like this just makes you all look bad. There is a very fine line between positive self asteem and arrogance. I think I know where you sit.

Wrong line. This is clearly the line between arrogance and insanity. Sorry ace. You are not saving lives every day, the systems in place are keeping you from hurting yourself and others.

[Cat Driver]

Wrong line. This is clearly the line between arrogance and insanity. Sorry ace. You are not saving lives every day, the systems in place are keeping you from hurting yourself and others.

If Amateur Turbines is an example of what is sitting in the front end of Air Canada's airplanes there is something terribly wrong with their screening process when hiring pilots.

Maybe they would be better off putting the ramp guys in the cockpit if for no other reason than they would not have the delusions of grandeur that this gem has..

[ourkid2000]

I was an Air Canada rampie for almost 6 years before I became an AME............our training was 2 weeks, and I got an extra 2 days training when I went to AC Cargo. So 2 weeks and 2 days.

[timbuck]

Where did AT say he was a AC pilot? He very well could be... maybe I haven't read everything.

[Mitch Cronin]

Everyday I go to work I save peoples lives!!!!!!!!!!

I think I've just taken my LAST flight on AC, if EVERY day F/O's are SAVING lives. If the current political (US vs THEM) mentality is affecting the flights, where they have to be SAVED, I'm thinking WJ for me.

Ummmm ... I thought he said he worked for WJ? (he mentioned WJ groundschool at any rate).... but if that's all it takes to make you think you know something about what goes on at AC (even if he is there), fill yer boots.

Same for the rest of you! It stuns me to see people making broad judgements about large groups, based on a single comment by one anonymous voice on the internet. Absolutely stunning.

[yycflyguy]

Wrong line. This is clearly the line between arrogance and insanity. Sorry ace. You are not saving lives every day, the systems in place are keeping you from hurting yourself and others.

If Amateur Turbines is an example of what is sitting in the front end of Air Canada's airplanes there is something terribly wrong with their screening process when hiring pilots.

... because the hiring process at WS is much more detailed. So much so that you don't even need a licence, just a couple of internal references to get hired.

[MUSKEG]

A/T Because we now it's against the rules to let passengers onto the flight deck, we can safely assume that the crew are the only ones in control, right. Now if every day you are saving passengers lives, someone is messing with the flight. Or do you still view flying as so dangerous that only a superhero can get by. How did you make it past the interview without rescueing that as well. You my friend need a good swift kick in the ass, and I imagine that you would have no shortage of kickers.

[Amateur Turbines]

I was trolling.... I got drunk last night and thought I would have some fun......

I work at WJ and I don't save peoples lives everyday.

Airlines need an enormous amount of infrastructure in order to operate. If one link in the chain fails the airplane does not fly and said airline does not make money end of story.

I feel for everyone at AC right now and I hope that you are able to turn around one of the most admired airlines in the world back to where it should stand. Making lots of money for everyone! Not just the exec's. Since I was a little kid I always wanted to be able to fly for AC. It's too bad that RM has ruined such a great airline for everyone.

[WetJet]

Hey, at least AT has the balls to admit that he was drinking and posting! A lesser man might have just gone back and edited out his own drunken rant. Good on you!

[yyz monkey]

Everyday I go to work I save peoples lives!!!!!!!!!!

And I am truly appreciative of those cups of coffee you bring the pilot to keep them awake at the stick and the walk arounds you undertake to keep the pilot from getting too tired to fly

Hope your piss up was a good one and the good stuff was out and being consumed