Air Canada parking 155 aircraft!!

[Sage]

Embraer has a DMM of around 83 hours for the last few months. I don't think we are losing any flying there. Don't forget Jazz is only allowed to do a certain percentage of the flying that mainline is doing. You can't keep going up on your block hours. Jazz has been given some new flying recently yes but those, as you know, is to start up the route and if that becomes popular, off our way it goes.

[tonysoprano]

cat3.
If and when LH buys AC, it buys "AC". Jazz will have nothing to do with it. C-series is a mainline acquisition. Calvin is on a mission to downsize all of us but he particularly does not like the warm and cozy relationship with Jazz. I suspect that by the time LH buys AC, Jazz will be a downsized, insignificant player. ACE will be gone and anyone will be able to bid for the feed to mainline. Mainline pilots are about to fight for many things. Scope will be at the top of the list, as in the past. I still remember the days when Jazz was going to get the Airbus. Then it was the Emb. Right. The only thing Jazz got was the RJ, with ACPA's blessing. Very important factor ACPA is. Remember that.

[cat3]

You'll be sent to school soon enough...

[tonysoprano]

We'll see you there. Oh, BTW, why don't you read this.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ ... y/Business

[Ifly]

Someone should ask how many options Kavafian has in a short postion on both Jazz and Air Canada, and how many shares he is invested into others (ie Westjet) Perhaps this man, as a licensed broker, is guilty of market manipulation.

[countryhick]

...and the whipsawing begins again. We all stand to lose significantly in a CCAA scenario, lets hope it doesn't come to that again. The time, effort and $$$ spent by both ALPA and ACPA for the us vs. them battle could be better spent elsewhere. We all had the opportunity to stop this nonsense during the last dance, sad really.

BTW, I think Jazz getting the RJ's had a bit more to do with Teplitsky's blessing than ACPA's

[mattedfred]

would you guys mind typing in ALL CAPS as i can't quite hear you over the whipsawing?

might is right, eh tony?

aren't the EMB blocked to 83 because the Airbus fleet is blocked to 65?

ALPA has been knocking on ACPA's door for years now so why don't you convince your executive to answer?

[joebloggs]

320 yyz april block month also at 83...sorry to disapoint you. Business as usual over here.

[tonysoprano]

aren't the EMB blocked to 83 because the Airbus fleet is blocked to 65?

No.
83 as joebloggs has informed you. Here we go again with misinformed people trying to make a point. ALPA can knock on the door all it wants. We're not buying anything.

[prop2jet]

Tony:
If AC finds itself back in CCAA, you can bet that everyone is going to be taken to the cleaner including ACPA. If any foreign equity finds it's way to AC whether it is from LH or anyone else is probably going to come with strings attached and one thing is certain: They have NO interest in financing your pentions or pay increases.

Slinging mud at eachother (ACPA / ALPA) is not going to accomplish anything except playing into the hands of Management on both sides.

[tonysoprano]

Not slinging mud. I have always said Jazz needs AC and AC needs Jazz. Just clarifying something that needs to be. It seems that the wrong information is out there.

If any foreign equity finds it's way to AC whether it is from LH or anyone else is probably going to come with strings attached and one thing is certain: They have NO interest in financing your pentions or pay increases

Agreed. But how does this affect the Jazz/AC relationship?

[Ifly]

Tony
By saying the following:

cat3.
I suspect that by the time LH buys AC, Jazz will be a downsized, insignificant player. .

It doesn't really appear the you believe AC and Jazz need each other. More to the point you are invalidating the work of 1500 pilots that work along side you (albeit, not worthy of working for AC ) Comments like that simply serve to reignite old arguments and open old wounds. If there was a time that ACPA and ALPA should be working together to come up with creative solutions this would be it. I have a hard time believing that AC losing $500 million per month, as was the case earlier this year, is a result of the CPA with Jazz. ACs creditors (ie GE) are being paid out huge sums of money through ACE. This is the problem you need to spend your time on.

[Localizer]

Tony
By saying the following:

tonysoprano wrote:
cat3.
I suspect that by the time LH buys AC, Jazz will be a downsized, insignificant player. .


It doesn't really appear the you believe AC and Jazz need each other. More to the point you are invalidating the work of 1500 pilots that work along side you (albeit, not worthy of working for AC ) Comments like that simply serve to reignite old arguments and open old wounds. If there was a time that ACPA and ALPA should be working together to come up with creative solutions this would be it. I have a hard time believing that AC losing $500 million per month, as was the case earlier this year, is a result of the CPA with Jazz. ACs creditors (ie GE) are being paid out huge sums of money through ACE. This is the problem you need to spend your time on.

Damn it ... doesn't it piss you off when the man makes his point and backs it up. I do think we are all screwed if we don't work together on the solution. But what is the solution? ...

[tonysoprano]

IFly.

albeit, not worthy of working for AC )

Why do I get the feeling that there is a sense of entitlement from Jazz pilots every time this topic comes up? I'm all for an automatic flow through from Jazz to mainline and have said that many times on here. But the lack of such agreement seems to be at the center of all our "problems". The issue is as complicated as the Arab-Israeli conflict. My comment about Jazz becoming insignificant in the future is based on a number of late developments. It's not what I wish. It's what "could" happen if the analysts are right. You're right, the CPA is not the only thing wrong with AC. It's only part of the problem. But CR is out to restructure and that puts all of the problems on the table. AC's problems go far beyond Jazz.

[teacher]

Not even gonna start...............

[piggy]

albeit, not worthy of working for AC )

Why do I get the feeling that there is a sense of entitlement from Jazz pilots every time this topic comes up? I'm all for an automatic flow through from Jazz to mainline and have said that many times on here. But the lack of such agreement seems to be at the center of all our "problems". The issue is as complicated as the Arab-Israeli conflict. My comment about Jazz becoming insignificant in the future is based on a number of late developments. It's not what I wish. It's what "could" happen if the analysts are right. You're right, the CPA is not the only thing wrong with AC. It's only part of the problem. But CR is out to restructure and that puts all of the problems on the table. AC's problems go far beyond Jazz.[/quote]

"The issue is as complicated as the Arab-Israeli conflict"-this comment is so true, almost funny actually. The situation at AC and JAZZ is very serious. I think both will shrink, esp. when oil rises in the not so distant future, compounding the problem of high costs, and a legacy mentality. While mainline fights with Jazz for their "rightful" flying, Westjet will continue to simply take flying from AC until their fleet is beyond 120 a/c(as planned for now). It really is the status quo, WJ has been taking business from AC for the last 10 yrs. currently around 37% of domestic, soon to be beyond 50%.

[Ifly]

Tony

I am an original Jazz pilot (no prior allegiances) I have no sense of entitlement, I applied to work at AC and was rejected for reasons unknown. I believe that the problems with regards to flow through are deep, sensitive and highly political. However, as a Jazz pilot who was rejected from AC, I find it strange that I would be considered capable of flying your passengers from A to B on a Dash, but not on and EMB or A320. I am not bitter, as I view the rejection as a blessing in disguise.

With regards to solutions to the problems that exist, everyone has a theory, some more contentious than others. My personal opinion is this: AC has a duty to provide a minimum of service to Canadians (rightly or wrongly, I don't know) It is not financially feasible for them to do this with the present corporate structure. AC needs to reduce the cost per seat mile to survive the onslaught by Westjet. Having complete duplication of dispatch, crew sched, maintainance, not to mention the $$$ involved with upper management types seems ridiculous. Jazz and AC need to be merged into one company (just my opinion!!) Problems at ACGHS need to be addressed. Middle managment needs to be empowered to actually solve problems, not just hand out reprimands.

If there is anything I have learned in this industry, it's that common sense doesn't seem to apply. So what the future will look like is anyones' guess.

[tonysoprano]

IFly.
I can't disagree with anything you say. You are very correct. There are many answers to the problems but so far no management or union has been able to get it right. At the lower levels, we need to be more flexible. Sounds so easy but as you know it's been anything but. So here's hoping that someday a new top management will create a new company with better ideas. If not, we'll be doing this on a regular basis. And BTW, if I were you, I wouldn't accept "for reasons unknown". You are entitled to know why. perhaps you should ask the ones who did get the job and compare notes.

[mattedfred]

aren't the EMB blocked to 83 because the Airbus fleet is blocked to 65?

No.
83 as joebloggs has informed you. Here we go again with misinformed people trying to make a point. ALPA can knock on the door all it wants. We're not buying anything.

i was trying to ask a question actually. thanks joebloggs.

do you speak for the entire ACPA membership, the ACP Exec or is that last remark your own?

[tonysoprano]

matted.
When both unions were in talks known as "Global solution", ACPA was keeping us updated as to where it was all going. The last we heard was that talks had broken down and the GS suspended. Hence my statement that we're not answering the door knocks. They may start up again but we have not heard, at least I haven't.

[mattedfred]

then why not take a leadership role and knock on ALPA's door in order to end the whipsawing?

[tonysoprano]

...they have more than once. Correct me if I'm wrong, and I'm sure I will be, but apparently the seniority and scope stuff keep getting in the way. It seems both sides strongly believe in a unified group but then someone decides to play poker. I'm sure both sides will blame each other on this and tell their respective groups that the other side dropped the ball.

[Jaques Strappe]

IFly

Tony

I am an original Jazz pilot (no prior allegiances) I have no sense of entitlement, I applied to work at AC and was rejected for reasons unknown. .........However, as a Jazz pilot who was rejected from AC, I find it strange that I would be considered capable of flying your passengers from A to B on a Dash, but not on and EMB or A320. I am not bitter, as I view the rejection as a blessing in disguise.

This comes across a little transparent. With Jazz and AC being separate entities, with separate management, hiring boards, requirements, etc.....would you also find it strange if Westjet turned you down? Not trying to start at you but if you are capable of flying passengers from A to B on a Dash, then using your argument, would you not also be able to do it in a 737 like many of your colleagues have done? Why bring up Air Canada turning you down if you are not bitter about it?

(albeit, not worthy of working for AC )

Yeah ok, no bias here.

[Brick Head]

would you guys mind typing in ALL CAPS as i can't quite hear you over the whipsawing?

might is right, eh tony?

aren't the EMB blocked to 83 because the Airbus fleet is blocked to 65?

ALPA has been knocking on ACPA's door for years now so why don't you convince your executive to answer?

Mattedfred,

Your a pretty reasonable sort. But I get the impression you are not aware of what happened at the latest Teplitski hearing over the 16th 705.

Any trust that was developing between ALPA/ACPA trashed.

Anyway better left alone. We are all guilty of squandering opportunity's at some point in this mess. I suppose this was no different.

I've always been a proponent of working together. But at least for the time being that happening appears to be remote.

[2R]

Make Airlines Profitable

Dump the male flight attendants. No one wanted them in the first place.

Replace all the female flight attendants with good-looking strippers! What the hell - the attendants have gotten old and haggard-looking. They don't even serve food anymore, so what's the loss? The strippers would at least triple the alcohol sales and get a "party atmosphere" going in the cabin.

And, of course, every businessman in this country would start flying again, hoping to see naked women.

Because of the tips, female flight attendants wouldn't need a salary, thus saving even more money. Hell, I suspect tips would be so good that we could charge the women for working and have them kick back 20% of the tips, including lap dances and "special services."

Muslims would be afraid to get on the planes for fear of seeing naked women. Hijackings would come to a screeching halt, and the airline industry would see record revenues. This is definitely a win-win situation if we handle it right - a golden opportunity to turn a liability into an asset.

Why the hell didn't Bush think of this? Why do I still have to do
everything myself?

Sincerely,

Bill Clinton