International Students

[Tango01]

I've noticed a lot of students from China and India coming to Canada for training. I also heard that once they complete their training, they go back to their countries and get an job at an airline. WTF???

Do these countries know how "little" their "cadets" know by the time they return back home? I have seen international students with a CPL that could not fly! How they passed their flight tests is beyond me!

Anyway, I know Canada is one of the hardest countries to make it in this industry. Here you progress from a small airplane to a slighly larger one and you acquire experience and so on until you decide to get into the right seat of a CRJ, and even then, by the time you get there, you have some experience, while in USA and Europe seem to be on another level. You can just go from zero to CRJ in a year...

Anyway, just a thought. I don't get it how these international students get such an easy ride to a good job.

Maybe that's how its supposed to be and we are wrong, I don't know, I'm confused!

[iflyforpie]

If these countries run and regulate their airlines like their railway systems; I'm sure they aren't too worried.

[MichaelP]

In Europe fewer people afford to do their JAA CPL and so there's barely enough recruits.
In China everyone passes because loss of face through failure is worse than being an unsafe pilot. The masses begin to travel and all of a sudden they need many more pilots.
Similar in India.

Here many more trainee pilots can scrape together a bit of money and are hopeful for the big time high paying airline jobs while Canada has too few people to travel especially when they see the economic news.

Supply and demand.

[Naveed]

These students are usually in university and are approached by airlines recruiters, and a lot jump at the opportunity for status and money, although the students I taught are in lifetime contacts with their company which they seem fine with. All start as second officers on 737's and 320's and most they say will move to FO in 2-3 years and captain with in 10 years. From what I was told by my students, most will learn a completely new way of flying from their captain thru the old boys club of flying

[Tim]

low time people flying jets is pretty much the way its done in many parts of the world, there is simply no general aviation sector/bush flying/instructing/etc in which to build time

most of the students at mfc (there are several different airlines that have contracts) have been to univeristy that the company paid for. when they graduate the airline actually owns their license.

[MichaelP]

For the 700 hour build up required for the old British CPL pilots could do it all in a Turbulent with a VW and no radio

200 hours in any light aircraft is more than enough for a person to go into the real training for an airliner.
There's so much of a difference between a light aircraft and a jet that anyone will need extensive training regardless of how many light aeroplane hours one has.

In the old days there was much more commonality between stick and rudder aeroplanes and stick and rudder airliners.
Nowadays there's flight management to learn; it's a whole different ball game.

The lonely bushpilot stashing stuff into a Beaver on some far off lake is not related to the Flight Crew Member getting his weather and flight plan from dispatch and feeding the required info into the Airbus MCDU prior to taking the greater public on a controlled flight to somewhere while drinks are served...

Turbulent: To Airbus?

[BoostedNihilist]

"Roger, weapons hot, bombs away..."

[shannon]

Perhaps thats where the term "shit a brick" came from?

[MichaelP]

Perhaps thats where the term "shit a brick" came from?

Yes he's considering tomorrow's session in the A340 simulator where he's got to prove he has what it takes to fly an Airbus.

(I used to do this, flour bombing, balloon bursting, and formation flying in Turbulents. It was great fun. The Turb' is a brilliant aeroplane, easy and fun to fly and yet it would bite if you were stupid.).
But the Turb has no relationship to the Airbus beyond having a stick and occupying the air.

[5x5]

easy and fun to fly and yet it would bite if you were stupid.).

Yup, that's what we need more of in aviation today. No sense having safe planes, cause heaven knows you can't have real fun and easy without danger lurking.

[Sabrea]

If these countries run and regulate their airlines like their railway systems; I'm sure they aren't too worried.

Some of the major carriers of these countries seem to now have foriegn pilot hiring bans in place (Air India and Indonsesian, at least 3 more) and now these same carriers have been placed on the EU no fly list. Little wonder?

[Tango01]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tq08JUZA ... re=related

[moocow]

Because it's probably way cheaper in the long run to train cadets then shackle them with life time contract and insane penalty for quitting than to hire a regular pilot from EU or NA. These guys practically have no where to turn to. What scared me even more is that some of these schools switched to Chinese textbooks for their training simply because they can't learn fast enough in an English environment (source from a former instructor at one of those school). So are they going to have a separate pilots corp where those who can't speak Level 4 English are stuck at domestic routes or just cheat their way thru the system?

Now that being said, we shouldn't paint every one of those airlines with the same brush. I went thru CX's and DA's cadet recruitment screening process and yes, if you have a university degree from an English speaking country you will most likely get at least an interview. But at least they are extremely strict about who gets into the program, 3 interviews & 1 flight exam before anyone gets admitted into the training program. First interview required a quick presentation on CX's training program and a written and listening English test.

[MichaelP]

I also got word that all foreign pilots working in India will have to leave their jobs and leave India after July 2010, which makes me wonder which way the industry will turn now.

A quote from an e-mail I received this morning....

English language
Yes, at BPIAA the students had a difficult time with English and so groundschool was switched to Chinese from English.
The problem was that whereas all selected students had degrees, you can buy a degree from a University in China.
This meant that many of the students did not have any academic ability.

On the other hand, in compliance with ICAO you need English proficiency to fly internally in China where those routes - airports are shared with foreign carriers.

Thailand
I am very sad about what is going on in Thailand right now... Airlines are going to suffer.
I was not impressed by the standard of pilotage on one Thai carrier and wrote to them about it.
Thai Air Asia seem OK, and Thai Airways is good. I have not experienced Bangkok Air as yet, but they seem to have a good attitude.
What was interesting was the way local passengers were relieved when a farang pilot was seen in the cockpit. It seemed they trust us more!

It is very very important that the foreign pilots training here go home with a sound background training.
We do not know how their Airbus/Boeing training will go in their own countries, but if we give them proper initial training the safe attitude they learn they will hopefully keep.

Training foreign pilots in Canada is good business and keeps many of us employed.
Let's keep up a good reputation for doing a good job.
We do not need to be cheaper than the Americans, their government is closing their borders to foreigners bit by bit.

[Stevo226]

I've noticed a lot of students from China and India coming to Canada for training. I also heard that once they complete their training, they go back to their countries and get an job at an airline. WTF???

Last year maybe, from what i've heard from students that have finished and headed home already, there's quite an abundance of newly minted CPL's sitting around with not much of a hope for a job in the next few years. Just like the rest of the world, things are slowing down.

Apparently it is more efficient to come to Canada to train. In India for example, there's something like 4 FTU's each with thousands of students (if you want to build hours quick, go instruct there). I had a student that did some training in India before he came here, in a year he managed to get 10 hours of flight time (all in the circuit for some reason).

Also from what i've seen in terms of quality of students, I will never fly on an airline in India

[just curious]

Anyway, just a thought. I don't get it how these international students get such an easy ride to a good job.

In my youth, I wondered how these kids could get such an "easy ride". Libyans, Nigerians, and Nepalese at Moncton, leaving Canada and going from a Seminole to a big jet.

Later I discovered that Royal Nepal Airlines had an easy job sorting task. There were Class I and Class II instrument ratings at the time. Class I guys went to the jet, and the class II's to the Twin Otter. And stayed there. Forever. Not many of them still alive after 30 years.

The Libyans would have been global pariahs, flying obsolescent Western, and Russian aircraft with minimal training or support to less than welcoming destinations.

The Nigerians got into positions that they kept only at the continued power of their parents. A fall from grace, and the kids were unemployable.

As I understand, several hundred Indian and Chinese students had their contracts terminated and were stuck in BC and Newfoundland.

I like the idea that Canada is attractive enough to attect foreign students and investment. I wouldn't want to be one of the students here at the sufferance of a contract airline, or one of the contract training brokers.

[Dagwood]

Also from what i've seen in terms of quality of students, I will never fly on an airline in India

Same. Heard of a licensed Indian pilot start cranking the engine while the rampie was removing the chocks from the nose wheel. Now he is flying an Airbus in India.

[harsh786techy]

hello folks,

I just want to let you guys know about the quality the airlines in India look for and also let you know that why Indian licensed pilots get on jets after ad-initio training.

To get on as a trainee first officer in an airline here, you need two things:
1. Intense depth knowledge- even though a low time pilot has not yet even entered a jet cockpit, they are supposed to know all about the Jet engines and system of the aircraft. eg- Oxford level.

2. A candidate must have Big shots in Politics or in the airline.

The latter is the reason you came across a guy who crannked the engine while rampie was in the vicinity.

The reason for hiring ab initios directly on jet is that we dont have a lot of General aviation and airspace restrictions are so much that you can even start your engine for maintainance without the permission or for that matter if you need to just check if your radio is working you need have Radio telephony license and many other No sense making things.
However, things are difficult but they are safe (I should say extra safe).

The point i want to make is that Indian aviation is no threat for you guys to make comments like feeling unsafe flying in here.
I am sure these kind of things does happen in your part of the world but your administartion have enough experience to keep it to safe level.
We are emerging as a growing aviation country and you guys have already passed that stage, so i hope you understand the difference.

Fly safe