PC12

[Pro]

Does the engine chip detector still turn off when the gear are in the wells? ie Kelnor crash report...

Do they come with automatic engine trend monitoring and reporting? as per the JAR requirements... ie Kelnor crash report...

This report
http://www18.tok2.com/home/soar/airplan ... nadian.htm

[Alpha Crit]

The main chip detector on the CAWS panel functions both on the ground and in the air. Most PC-12's also have a secondary Oil Debris Monitoring system that counts metal particles in the engine oil flow, and illuminates a CHIP caution light on the Engine Instrument System panel if the number of particles within a fixed time exceeds predefined limits.

PC-12's do have automatic trend monitoring. Data is recorded to a PCMCIA datacard on the Engine Intrument System panel. The data from this card is uploaded at least every 50 hours to a company that specializes in engine analysis. The data also goes to Pratt. This is all in addition to the standard trend data captured by the pilot at least once each flying day, and forwarded for analysis at the end of each day.

[Pro]

Alpha Crit,
Thanks for the response.

What about the O2 and battery? Have they been upgraded since the accident report?

[Flybaby]

The CAWS on early serial-numbered PC-12 and PC-12/45 airplanes, including the accident airplane, was designed so that such engine MCD warnings would be enabled only when the airplane was on the ground. The CAWS received a signal from the weight-on-wheels (WOW) switch on the left main landing gear. As soon as the airplane took off and the WOW switch was opened, MCD warnings were disabled.

http://www.ntsb.gov/NTSB/brief2.asp?ev_ ... 008&akey=1
Who thought up this system, is their a reason you don't want to know if your only fan is about to die?

[bigredone]

The theory was that,and stats support, it would be more hazardous to the general population for the average owner to be ducking for the first available landing site each time the Chip light came on than being "advised" of the situation upon landing. They changed their minds and put it in the Pilots hands. Among such mods as seccond Batt(allowing for power all the way from FL300 at 114kts to perfectly planned powerless landing), flap actuators and that dont' mind the cold, increased time alowance(3 sec-6sec?) for main gear prox. sensors, O2...can't remember that one, prop override rocker switch so one doesn't need to pull the prop feather breaker to prevent the thing from going into feather at shut down while still spinning 850rpm(preventing picking up rockes) and many other handy dandy mods to make a great machine even better.

[Flybaby]

bigredone, you seem to have a pretty good knowledge of the PC 12, any idea why Americans keep killing themselves by spinning or stalling them in. I think theirs been 18 deaths in the last three years that appear to be stall spin related?

[Morav]

Probably because there's a lot of wealthy Americans in over their heads flying around in PC12s.

[bigredone]

Dunno. It is a very user friendly airplane I think. You could get a bit of a scare if you were on auto pilot from T.O.D using the V/S hold and power at idle and after capturing the level off ALT(ie prior to becon inbound) forgetting to power up. If you had the pusher ice off(keeping your stick shaker and pusher closer together speed wise) you could get the shaker causing AP disconect and if you were slowing rapidly enough(gear down, flap 30, flight idle) one could transition from fat dumb and happy to full stall at a good clip. I liken myself, and some would disagree, to be an average pilot and have pushed the PC-12 as hard as anyone without getting so far down the road it couldn't get me back. MSG-ENT-DRCT-ENT, IAS 114. From FL250 you got 22 minutes give or take so plenty of time to screw things up I guess.

[Red Line]

Good info bigredone. As for the O2, all the PC-12s I've flown have had a second larger cylinder in the tail giving a total of 34 minutes for 2 crew and 9 passengers.

[Red Line]

I think theirs been 18 deaths in the last three years that appear to be stall spin related?

Really? Presumably you're counting the 14 of the last accident (for which there is no final report). Apart from that I'm only aware of 2 other PC-12 spin accidents. (Compared to 160+ accidents in the US over the past 3 years in other a/c matching a "spin" query, the majority of which where fatal.)
That being said, I'm surprised there hasn't been more. As Morav mentioned, a lot of PC-12s south of the border are flown Part 91 and piloted by their rich owners who may not fly often. There's A LOT of torque with that PT6-67. (It's capable of 1600 SHP) If you did end up in a stall (for whatever reason) and you jam full power forgetting what to do with rudder and ailerons then you're for sure in for a spin (complete with T-tail characteristics).

[El Comat]

I've put the PC-12 through the full shaker/pusher routine in a training environment, and you'd have to be in a coma not to react to the shaker in time to prevent a push in a situation such as leveling off with no power and a/p engaged. The only danger I can think of would be down low, slow and in "pusher ice mode" which would decrease the AOA needed for shaker/pusher activation by 8 degrees (I think...haven't flown the plane in a year, so exact numbers may vary ). After 2000 hours of flying the PC-12 I've got nothing but good to say about it. If pilots are somehow spinning it (managing to fly it through a shake AND a push) I'd definitely lean towards pilot error.

EC

[Pro]

It's actually 1744 for T/O on the fact sheet at Pilatus.

bigredone,
The new chip detection system ( I discovered after I posted the question) is a complex one compared to the original version in that it checks out flow from various areas and counts particles somehow.

You are right about the chip detector giving off false alarms. I have a chopper friend who told me that they took them out of their choppers because they were going off all the time and a SE chopper is considerably more sensitive than a SE FW because they have a million things that can go wrong as opposed to one biggy in front.

In fact I recall him saying that they put a zapper in the chip detector to get rid of the chips that set it off and if it came on again then it is time to get on the ground.

Re the rich folks theory of spin accidents, I remember when I started flying my CFI calling Beechcraft "population control for Doctors".

[Flybaby]

I might be wrong because the investigation aren't done on three of them, but it seems in the States 5 of the last 6 fatal PC 12 Accidents seem to be Stall/Spin, I didn't double check, but I don't think there's been one in Canada.

3/22/2009 Butte, MT PILATUS PC-12/45 N128CM Fatal(14)
"The witness then saw the airplane bank to the left and fly farther west when it rolled, pitched down, and descended out of his view."

1/11/2009 Hayden, CO PILATUS AIRCRAFT LTD PC-12/45 N604WP Fatal(2)
"The onsite investigation revealed that the airplane impacted a snow covered field while inverted and while in a nose down attitude of approximately 70 degrees."

9/29/2008 Santa Fe, NM Pilatus PC-12/47E N606SL Fatal(1)
"According to one witness, the airplane initiated a left turn towards the airport at which time the airplane pitched down and descended at a “steep angle.”"

1/3/2008 Oklahoma City, OK Pilatus PC-12/45 N398J Fatal(1)
"The line technician's failure to remain clear of the propeller. A factor was the night lighting conditions."
"It was also noted that a set of wheel chocks and the severed sections of the two lighted wands were near the propeller at the front of the airplane."

6/24/2006 Big Timber, MT Pilatus PC-12/47 N768H Fatal(2)
"The flight instructor's failure to maintain an adequate airspeed while maneuvering, which led to an inadvertent stall."

3/26/2005 Bellefonte, PA Pilatus PC-12/45 N770G Fatal(6)
"The pilot's failure to maintain sufficient airspeed to avoid a stall during an instrument final approach to land, which resulted in an inadvertent stall/spin."

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/query.asp