Question for Instructors

[ASM150]

Alright so I've just started my flight training, and have under 5 hours. And my insrtuctor is becoming very very harsh on me, at first he had patience, but now its like he shows me something new, and expects me to learn, and do it perfectly the first try,(well not first try but he's pretty harsh if i make simple mistakes) Im think i just making simple, beginer mistakes, for example letting the nose come up while adding power after a descent. and keeping my altitude withing 25-100 feet of our deisred altitude. i do sometimes get off my desired heading by about 10 degrees but that shouldnt be a huge deal while in a practice area for a 4 hour pilot should it?

My instructor seems to be losing his patience, and has even started raising his voice in the cockpit. I know my flying could use some work, but its not like i'm making major life threatning mistakes or anything. He does have over 1200 hours, and has been instructing for a long long time (jokes around by saying he's been doing this way too long)

my questions to other instructors is: What do you expect from a pilot in training going from ZERO hours, who has never controlled a plane before to under 5 hours?

and is it time to maybe ask for a new instructor, maybe one that has more patience and wants to maybe less harsh on his new students.

and any other tips i could say/ or use while with my instructor? weather it in the air or in a breifing? thanks

[ZBBYLW]

If you and your instructor are not getting along, let him know you are paying him to teach you things and you want him to be less harsh, if no luck find another insturctor.

[atphat]

First of all let me say I am not an instructor. Let me also say that your instructor sounds like a total douche, and you need to find another one quickly. You are paying way to much money to learn how to fly, to have to worry about nonsense like this. No one should expect greatness in 5 hours, let alone 10, 20, ect. Everyone learns at their own pace.
If your instructor is making you feel uncomfortable this early in the game, let him go. Don't waste your time and money.
my 2 cents

[just curious]

First, jot down the pertinent points, and sit down with your instructor over coffee before any further flying or ground sessions. Sounds as if he may have a few regarding your progress. Or he could just be an ass.

See if you can thrash it out first.

If that doesn't work, make an appointment with the CFI. One, he's the boss of training, and two he's the boss of your instructor. Can't change him, change instructors.

[LNAV+V]

Well put atphat. At five hours your instructor should be showing you flying is fun, not whipping you into an airline pilot.

[AuxBatOn]

Good points by JC.

While he may be a little harsh, maybe he expects more from you. When/If you sit down with him, discuss what he expects from you in term of prepareness (ie: does he expect you to know every number from the books, every procedures before you go flying or is it okay to go there cold and expect the instructor to "spoonfeed" you?)

Generally, people don't have a short fuse for slow learners, but for people that don't seem to care enough to their taste.

[PAJ]

I am not an instructor so I can't answer your expectations question but I will say that you need to address this and right away.

Speak to him on the ground before your next flight and tell him how you feel. His reaction and overall attitude towards you at this point will make your decision to stick with him or find another instructor easy. Listen to what he says; perhaps he has a few valid points but you still need to address the attitude. If you do stick with him then get all the negative crap out of your head and truly give it another chance. If he is a burnt out bully - move on.

You will be spending a fair bit of time over the next while with whoever your instructor will be and the last thing you want is to be uneasy. Under those circumstances your learning will be minimal.

[FlaplessDork]

keeping my altitude withing 25-100 feet of our deisred altitude. i do sometimes get off my desired heading by about 10 degrees but that shouldnt be a huge deal while in a practice area for a 4 hour pilot should it?

Those are within flight test standards which shouldn't even be brought up until Lesson Plan 22 which is getting close to the end of training. Sounds like he's applying unrealistic standards in the early stages of training.

Do you understand the basic principles of the maneuvers? What exercise are you currently working on?

[trevor3999]

That sounds pretty uncomfortable! If you do stay with him, just think that hes hard on you because he wants you to be successful. I think it would be better to have an instructor that beats skills into you, then wastes youre time and couldnt give a shit about your progress. I would still switch though, better than being uncomfortable around a man thats stuck inside a little plane with you.

[Tim]

how much experience does your instructor have? what class is he?

ive had to deal with instructors like this before (im a class 2, i supervise class 4 instructors). i typically find the short fuse guys dont know how to teach effectively or just plain dont know what theyre talking about. the instructor should adjust their style and methods depending on the individual student. at this point in your training i would tend to think that any issues you are having are more representative of him.

[ASM150]

keeping my altitude withing 25-100 feet of our deisred altitude. i do sometimes get off my desired heading by about 10 degrees but that shouldnt be a huge deal while in a practice area for a 4 hour pilot should it?

Those are within flight test standards which shouldn't even be brought up until Lesson Plan 22 which is getting close to the end of training. Sounds like he's applying unrealistic standards in the early stages of training.

Do you understand the basic principles of the maneuvers? What exercise are you currently working on?

yes i do....


should have mentioned that before..but we've done

attitudes and movements,
climbs + desecents, i do every takeoff, and taxing
climbing turns + decscending turns
small amount of range and endurance + slow flight
started on stalls.(power off stalls) my instructor even tried to demonstrate a power on stall and i we went into a sprial dive i asked him if he meant to do that to show me wat could go wrong and he honestly answered "NO something happened"!!


we are currently reviewing climbing turns , decsending turns, aswell as starting with intentional stalls

he was saying i have to focus on keeping my attitude level without letting the nose pop up while adding power and that he dosen' wanna be into a scary situation ...

i'm guessing, and please answer honestly to these questions

1)a pilot under 5 hours pilot will have some trouble keeping altitude within 100 ft (its usally under 50) of our desired altitude??
2) most new pilots well have the tendency to let the nose rise a a few degrees when adding power?
3) not keeping within 5 degrees of our desired heading?
3) the above are beginer mistakes, and most new pilots well have issues like these?

4) say after 6-7 hours what do you guys expect you students to be really good at, and be confident doing without you (the instructor) having to say what to do i don't mean demonstrate but i mean like ok do a power on stall, without reminding him/her to do a "hasel check and go through the other procedures.? )

...its not like im 20+ degrees off our desired heading or over 100-150 ft +/- our desired altitude...

i understand that adding power will make the nose wanna pop up, and vise versa, with a high power setting you need more right rudder to reduce the aerodynamic affect of the prop on the plane.

Tim, i'm not sure wat class he is but hes got just over 1300 hours...

[Tango01]

While making you a good and safe pilot is of primary importance, getting you into the good habits (such as holding altitude and heading) from an early stage will pay off in the long run. Having said that, your instructor should find ways to do that without the need to yell or raise his voice at you (which would only serve to make you more nervous and perform even worse)

Like posted above, at the end of the day, you are paying him to make you a safe and competent pilot, not to be yelled at. Besides, at 5 hours, only major mistakes should be corrected and addressed, leaving the minor things to later stages of your training.

Have a talk with him and/or the CFI and see where it leads. If things don't improve, change instructors and find one that "fits" you better. You cannot learn if you don't feel at ease.

Ask yourself what you want to get out of your training and go in with a plan. At the end, if everything goes well, you will be given a licence, a licence to learn!

Good luck

T01

[FlaplessDork]

1)a pilot under 5 hours pilot will have some trouble keeping altitude within 100 ft (its usally under 50) of our desired altitude??
2) most new pilots well have the tendency to let the nose rise a a few degrees when adding power?
3) not keeping within 5 degrees of our desired heading?
3) the above are beginer mistakes, and most new pilots well have issues like these?

1) 100' is the standard to pass your flight test, if you can do this at this stage my opinion is that you are above average. You can pass with 200' but it needs to be corrected right away. But at this stage you shouldnt be staring at the altimeter.
2) It depends on what you are trying to accomplish, returning to straight and level from a descent it is useful to have the nose rise and return to the cruise attitude. Smoothly I will add. Increasing Airspeed in straight and level its undesirable, you actually need to lower the nose. Attitude + Power = Performance
3) with in 10 degrees you are laughing and above average. Keeping within 10 degrees is standard. Again at this stage you shouldn't be staring at the instruments. Point the nose where you want to go.

[AuxBatOn]

I wouldn't sweat the small stuff, like heading, speed and altitudes. As long as you correct it within a reasonable amount of time and adjust your parameters in order to stabilize it. As you gain proficiency, your cross check will get better and better and you'll be able to detect these deviations almost instanteneously.

I would focus more on the big picture things, like using the big AI mother nature gave us as your primary instrument, looking out for traffic and getting comfortable with the airplane. Do not spend too much time looking in the cockpit.

[Big Pistons Forever]

First, jot down the pertinent points, and sit down with your instructor over coffee before any further flying or ground sessions. Sounds as if he may have a few regarding your progress. Or he could just be an ass.

See if you can thrash it out first.

If that doesn't work, make an appointment with the CFI. One, he's the boss of training, and two he's the boss of your instructor. Can't change him, change instructors.

Excellent advice. This issue is unlikely to fix itself so you have to be proactive and raise the issue in a constructive manner. He may not even realise you have an issue. I found I adapted my instructional technique to the student. Some students needed lots of encouragement others needed a bit of a push to do well.

One PPL student of mine was young women with loads of natural talent but a confidence problem. She needed a gentle voice and the time to convince herself she could actually be a good pilot. Another was a mid 40's professional PPL going for his SEIFR. He had loads of intellect and ability but lots of attitude and frankly he was a bit of a bully. He didn't take me seriously untill I adopted the FISR (Fear,intimidation,sarcasm,and ridicule ) method for one lesson. After that we got along famously . In the end both students were outstanding pilots.

In general the mark of a good lession is when you land you are simultaneously rung out, feel good but disappointed you did not do better, and can't wait for your next flight.

[alpha1]

If he really has made "jokes" about being an instructor too long, get a new instructor ASAP. The guy is a knob.

[767]

The best way to find out about him is to talk to his other students. What were their results? Are they being treated the same way as you? If the students had poor results, then most liklely you will have poor results. If you are being treated differently, then that is a sign to change instructors asap.

Now, if the students are becoming good pilots under this instructor and if he treats you equally, then stick with him.

I am a strict instructor myself. Most of the time i will yell and im not afraid to admit it, but i dont yell when its a new exercise. For example, if the student is flaring on landing and they start using the trim just prior to touchdown (stop looking outside), I would not yell at them if it was their 1st landing lesson, however, i would yell if they repeat the same mistake. Same goes for other exercises. Sometimes, there is a reason to yell, but based on your situation, i think he is yelling unneccessarily.

[Hedley]

I am a strict instructor myself. Most of the time i will yell and im not afraid to admit it

Sigh.

[Rockie]

Sometimes, there is a reason to yell, but based on your situation, i think he is yelling unneccessarily.

The only valid reason to yell is if your life is in immediate danger, otherwise you're just being an asshole. I have had many instructors who expected my best performance but they never once raised their voice, and that includes the military. Do us all a favour and find another line of work.

[FL050]

Don't goof around.
Request another instructor NOW.

I've been there and my learning curve was so much better for it. All the talk in the world will never make this guy a great instructor. It would be good for him too to hear that "constuctive critisism" from his CFI after too.

You owe him nothing. You WILL thank yourself.

[PAJ]

The best way to find out about him is to talk to his other students. What were their results? Are they being treated the same way as you? If the students had poor results, then most liklely you will have poor results. If you are being treated differently, then that is a sign to change instructors asap.

Good advice.

I am a strict instructor myself. Most of the time i will yell and im not afraid to admit it, but i dont yell when its a new exercise. For example, if the student is flaring on landing and they start using the trim just prior to touchdown (stop looking outside), I would not yell at them if it was their 1st landing lesson, however, i would yell if they repeat the same mistake. Same goes for other exercises. Sometimes, there is a reason to yell, but based on your situation, i think he is yelling unneccessarily.

The only reason I would tolerate any instructor yelling at me would be if I was about to kill us and the only way to "snap me out of it" would be to yell. Other than that there is no valid reason to yell - period.

[BoostedNihilist]

Did the instructor tell you how to fix the problems?

1)a pilot under 5 hours pilot will have some trouble keeping altitude within 100 ft (its usally under 50) of our desired altitude??

Trim, trim, trimmity trim trim.

2) most new pilots well have the tendency to let the nose rise a a few degrees when adding power?

Yes. When adding power anticipate a nose up attitude and compensate with nose down on the controls. Problem solved.

3) not keeping within 5 degrees of our desired heading?

It happens all the time. When you are increasing power you are also creating some yaw so you will probably require a little bit of rudder to compensate. Power, stick forward in anticipation of the lift, rudder to compensate for the yaw. These should be coordinated movements. Think of the takeoff when you are putting bags of power out, you have to use the rudder to keep the aircraft straight. Process your takeoff and find out which direction your plane wishes to yaw, remember the rudder when adding power in the air. In fact, if you look at your heading indicator while you're doing the exercise chances are you will find that you are 5 degrees out in the same direction every time. (hint)

3) the above are beginer mistakes, and most new pilots well have issues like these?

they are only issues if you don't understand how to overcome them. if you don't understand how to overcome them then it is not a student issue it is an instructor issue.

Of course, all of this can be found within the various resource materials required for the PPL. Read them and come prepared. It could be the instructor mishandling his frustration that you have come unprepared.

That being said, if a guy I was paying 40 bucks an hour yelled at me I would probably yell right back and in no uncertain terms let him know who is *REALLY* in charge of the situation.

I really must say this statement, if true, speaks volumes

started on stalls.(power off stalls) my instructor even tried to demonstrate a power on stall and i we went into a sprial dive i asked him if he meant to do that to show me wat could go wrong and he honestly answered "NO something happened"!!

That says it all right there. Get another instructor this guy is a fuckin menace.

[mcrit]

It really depends on what you mean by 'harsh'. If all he is doing is pointing out that you are off the ideal (ie. "you're 50' high" or "Don't let the nose come up so high on the level off"), then that is part of what he is getting paid to do. Being a good pilot means not accepting errors, he's just trying to instill that habit into you at a early stage. If on the other hand you mean that he is frequently displaying anger/frustration with you, then you need to take some action.

[Shiny Side Up]

Yelling and displays of anger really have no place in the workplace, and deffinitely not in the airplane. I've raised my voice a very few times, but usually only when I didn't get a response from the first "I have control" - out of concern that they genuinely didn't hear me the first time or that they needed a wake up call than that I was upset with them.

There have been a few times when students have done some really, really, really stupid things which deserve some anger, but it still gets administered in a calm collected manner. A simple "let's go back home." usually will suffice. The lesson ends at this point, and I tell them so. Fortunately I can count on one hand the ammount of times this has been warranted.

If you rant and carry on all the time people just start to ignore you after a while.

[Invertago]

1300hrs instructing and he says he's been instructing far too long means he's probably burnt out, hates instructing, especially the beginning lessons, get a new instructor. The alternative would be to buy him a pack of wieners to put in his KD, his attitude will change since meat is a luxury he hasn't been able to afford for the last 2 years.

But seriously, get someone else, don't waste your time trying to change him, unless he's the only instructor for 100miles.