Question for Instructors

[767]

Do us all a favour and find another line of work.

Thanks, but im fine where im at.

If the student begins to use the trim and stops looking outside while flaring, it is a life threatening situation to me and for anyone else on the airplane. Thereofore, if the situation is life threatening, like you said, it is ok for me to yell. I dont know if its life threatening for you or not.

[Lurch]

I am a strict instructor myself. Most of the time i will yell and im not afraid to admit it

Sigh.

Well I guess we now know who his instructor is

767 you still never cease to amaze me with your ignorance

Take Rockie's advise and do us all a favour, end your time as a destructor

Lurch

[Invertago]

Do us all a favour and find another line of work.

Thanks, but im fine where im at.

If the student begins to use the trim and stops looking outside while flaring, it is a life threatening situation to me and for anyone else on the airplane. Thereofore, if the situation is life threatening, like you said, it is ok for me to yell. I dont know if its life threatening for you or not.

The only thing I'd yell in a life threatening situation is "I HAVE CONTROL" and for what its worth in the last 1000hrs of instructing, I've never had to yell at my students. Sometimes when a person is making a mistake yelling at them will confuse them and make the situation worse... maybe take control then debrief on the ground?

[PAJ]

Do us all a favour and find another line of work.

Thanks, but im fine where im at.

If the student begins to use the trim and stops looking outside while flaring, it is a life threatening situation to me and for anyone else on the airplane. Thereofore, if the situation is life threatening, like you said, it is ok for me to yell. I dont know if its life threatening for you or not.

767 - I think what is getting most folks here (myself included) upset with you is

Most of the time i will yell and im not afraid to admit it ...

It seems that you are alone in your belief that yelling at a student is not only acceptable but in fact, your preferred method of instruction. I think you should seriously reevaluate your methods or failing that, reconsider your chosen occupation. Can ALL of us be so wrong?

[Hedley]

"yelling" in a "life threatening" situation is unlikely to improve
a student's performance, unless perhaps he has simply fallen
asleep, and just needs to be woken up.

IMHO the most dangerous thing a student can do, is "freeze"
in a near-catatonic state on the controls, most often with the
well-known "death grip". This can be a real problem when the
student is much larger and stronger than you are, and you
simply can't overpower him on the controls.

Free advice to any instructor: videotape your lesson, then watch
it afterwards, to see if you are happy with your performance.

As an example, think of that fat idiot with the walrus moustache
on Orange County Choppers, that has temper tantrums and throws
and breaks things and screams at his sons on international TV. Do
you think his performance as an instructor and leader is a good one?

[Tango01]

This article from AOPA should summarize all said here.

http://flighttraining.aopa.org/ft_magaz ... April+2008

[Hedley]

From the above:

Does he raise his voice or make inappropriate comments? This is a big one. There's no place in the cockpit for tempers, yelling, destructive comments, or anything else that makes the student feel uncomfortable. This is one area in which the student doesn't need to seek out advice, talk to the chief instructor, or wait it out to see if things get better. If the instructor makes you uncomfortable, drop him.

[Rockie]

This article from AOPA should summarize all said here.

http://flighttraining.aopa.org/ft_magaz ... April+2008

Good article, thanks Tango01.

[Hedley]

I am a strict instructor myself

I just wanted to comment upon the above. I suspect that I
am probably more "strict" - that is, I demand technical
performance from the student, to a much higher level -
than probably any other civilian flight instructor in Canada.

For example, I had two student pilots flying solo recently
in the howling wind we had recently in Eastern Ontario.

At least 20 knots, gusting directly across the narrow runway,
and my student pilots handled it effortlessly. In conditions
that licenced pilots - trained by other instructors - were afraid
to fly.

But one does not need to become a martinet to inspire good performance.

One needs to lead by example, to motivate students to higher levels of
performance, to patiently and clearly explain to students what they are
doing wrong, and how to correct it.

[767]

Take Rockie's advise

Lurch.

----sure:

quote="Rockie"]
The only valid reason to yell is if your life is in immediate danger, otherwise you're just being an asshole. /quote]

[767]

Can ALL of us be so wrong?

Nope.

[Lurch]

Take Rockie's advise

Lurch.

----sure:

You can try and read that anyway you want but that isn't the advise I meant.

Considering your history on here no matter how many people tell you not to yell and how many articles get posted I doubt you will change your ways.

And NO, immediate danger is no excuse to yell.


Lurch

[Hedley]

767 ... end your time as a destructor

Good advice, but just think of the poor FO's who's
lives he is going to make a living hell, if he ever makes
left seat.

[Rockie]

767 ... end your time as a destructor

Good advice, but just think of the poor FO's who's
lives he is going to make a living hell, if he ever makes
left seat.

One dragon at a time Hedley.

[767]

This article from AOPA should summarize all said here.

http://flighttraining.aopa.org/ft_magaz ... April+2008

That was pretty interesting.

However, I dont agree with a few things. Thats just my opinion I guess. I believe that the instructor should NOT yell unneccessarily. Sometimes, we need to yell at the lazy students (for example), who dont pay attention to radio calls, dont look out for traffic, etc. If the instructor takes it lightly, the student will most likely not care about it later... In other words, safety should be strictly enforced by whatever means other than violence (in asian countries, instructors usually beat their students with canes)

*This is my opinion. You are free to agree or disagree*

[iflyforpie]

"yelling" in a "life threatening" situation is unlikely to improve
a student's performance, unless perhaps he has simply fallen
asleep, and just needs to be woken up.

IMHO the most dangerous thing a student can do, is "freeze"
in a near-catatonic state on the controls, most often with the
well-known "death grip". This can be a real problem when the
student is much larger and stronger than you are, and you
simply can't overpower him on the controls.

Free advice to any instructor: videotape your lesson, then watch
it afterwards, to see if you are happy with your performance.

As an example, think of that fat idiot with the walrus moustache
on Orange County Choppers, that has temper tantrums and throws
and breaks things and screams at his sons on international TV. Do
you think his performance as an instructor and leader is a good one?

People tend to confuse assertiveness with aggressiveness. Assertiveness is what you would use in an emergency situation and if you are keeping a close eye on your student, it should never deteriorate to the point where exclamations are required. Assertiveness doesn't require you to even raise your voice, provided the student knows what to expect from you. I find it funny that usually the worse behaved children are the ones that are yelled at constantly.

It is important for the instructor to be critical of a student's performance, but it must be in a constructive manner. First lessons require more criticism to ensure they are learned correctly, but the student should be given encouragement constantly so they don't feel defeated at this early stage. After a student has done a few of the same lessons, there shouldn't be any criticism until after the flight.

Often the best way is to ask the more experienced student how they felt their performance was. If they said it was fine and it really wasn't, maybe they need further clarification on what is required. Most often, they are aware of what they did wrong after the flight and after they beat themselves up, you can offer points of encouragement.

Yelling has no place in the cockpit.

[BoostedNihilist]

Further to the video recording of flights I have one of these bad boys on the way

http://cgi.ebay.com/Archos-605-WiFi-160 ... 7C294%3A50

with one of these

http://cgi.ebay.com/ARCHOS-HELMET-CAMER ... 7C294%3A50

Cheap, tons of storage and you can velcro it to the dash or a headset without an STC

[Hedley]

small point: you may want to take the intercom output
and patch it into the audio input of your solid-state camera.

Be sure to match the ampedances as required.

Helmet cams are great. I used one to record this:

www.pittspecials.com/movies/acb_roll.wmv

Note that you may wish to have something other
than Blue Oyster Cult for your soundtrack

"I need more cowbell!"

[BoostedNihilist]

Hedley, would use use a transformer or a ballast resistor?

[trey kule]

One of the fundamentals of check rides and flight tests is to determine the testee's performance to a standard. If you give it a moments thought, you realize that it is because we are not good at self evaluation.

I found that AOPA article very interesting, and to quote from it again, as Hedley already did

Does he raise his voice or make inappropriate comments? This is a big one. There's no place in the cockpit for tempers, yelling, destructive comments, or anything else that makes the student feel uncomfortable. This is one area in which the student doesn't need to seek out advice, talk to the chief instructor, or wait it out to see if things get better. If the instructor makes you uncomfortable, drop him.

Now lets look at instructors. The fact is they are no better at self evaluation than the rest of us. In fact, if one does not subscribe to the above advice, they might just be able to rationalize in their minds all the reasons it is OK to ignore it.

Personally, my opinion is that any instructor who resorts to yelling at a student, for any reason whatsover should be taken aside by their CFI for a little chat...it is obvious that they just dont really understand what instructing is all about.

As to the original post, there are, unfortunately two sides to the story. If your instructor is spending a little to much time on exercises that are not on the curriculum, or handling the controls far more than necessary, it is really time to change. It is not about hard feelings..just say you would like to experience a different instructors technigue because you are having difficulty learning.
From what I have seen in flight schools in the last few years there are alot of instructors who do too much flying themselve, demonstrate and then test the student without giving the student any time to practice.

The result is students get into the circuit before they can properly manage airspeed control for example, where they spend several hours learning it one circuit at a time rather than two partial lessons in the upper air portion.

There is also a tendency of some instructors to go flying before the studen has being properly briefed. Again, a misperception by the instructor as to what the student has actually learned.