King Air Suicide

[TheBigE]

I figure buddy had no control over his position a couple seconds after he left the aircraft. He was probably tumbling on the way down so a terminal velocity around 120mph or so...

As for death, he may very well have been unconcious from the lack of oxygen during the fall and the sudden change from a nice positive temperature to the near -50 and better that would have been exposed at altitude, with the wind chill. Its also possible that he would have hit the side of the plane on the way out (a la that Aloha Airlines accident where the F/A bounced her head on the side on the way out).

[Cubester]

Assuming no mechanical malfunction with the door or pressurization system, I would be curious as to how the passenger was able to overcome the pressurization safety bellows built into the locking mechanism.

Also, was this a medevac? a mental patient transfer?


BBB

Excellent point!

[Blakey]

Assuming no mechanical malfunction with the door or pressurization system, I would be curious as to how the passenger was able to overcome the pressurization safety bellows built into the locking mechanism.

Also, was this a medevac? a mental patient transfer?


BBB

Excellent point!

I think it rather unlikely that they would be medevacing anyone, let alone a mental patient, to Cambridge from Yellowknife. The other direction maybe but not that direction!

[rayban]

Assuming no mechanical malfunction with the door or pressurization system, I would be curious as to how the passenger was able to overcome the pressurization safety bellows built into the locking mechanism.

Also, was this a medevac? a mental patient transfer?


BBB

Excellent point!

I think it rather unlikely that they would be medevacing anyone, let alone a mental patient, to Cambridge from Yellowknife. The other direction maybe but not that direction!

We have the ability to "dump the cabin" in a King Air 200 although I don't know if that would be a wise choice. I've had a situation where a passenger snuck on a mickey of firewater and proceeded to get himself stupid. I knew something was wrong when I smelled cigarette smoke and he got quite belligerent once confronted. I thought of dumping the cabin in order to put him to sleep but didn't simply because I wasn't sure if I could damage me or my co-pilots ears in the process. Anyways, I'm sure lot's of thoughts were racing though this crew's minds and despite their involuntary loss of a passenger the final outcome was at the end of the day they arrived home safely. Anyways, I hope a few stiff drinks ease their nerves and they move on from this mishap quickly.

[rayban]

By the way, medevacs involving mental patients are commonly referred to as "Headevacs"

[AuxBatOn]

I don't know about a King Air 200, but if I remember correctly, the max PSID on a 100 is only 4.6 PSI, which basically means if you can push harder than 5 pounds with your thumb on the safety switch, the door's all yours, and at that point, the pressure differential will throw the door open, and the airflow will do the rest.

If it was the main door, I'm super thankful that it stayed attached...that's a lot of weight to be flailing around the stabilizers...

Good job crew.

5 psi is not 5 pounds. It's 5 pounds per square inch, so you have to multiply that by the surface area the air is pushing on.

[HS-748 2A]

[/quote]

5 psi is not 5 pounds. It's 5 pounds per square inch, so you have to multiply that by the surface area the air is pushing on.[/quote]

That's right. Like on a door, arbitrarily, 60" X 36", the surface area is 2160 in sq.

X 4.6 psi D ; that's 9936 lbs of force on that door.

I would like to hear from an AME familliar on type who can explain how that door could have been opened at that altitude and a that Delta P? What about speed locks?

48

[Lurch]

I don't know about a King Air 200, but if I remember correctly, the max PSID on a 100 is only 4.6 PSI, which basically means if you can push harder than 5 pounds with your thumb on the safety switch, the door's all yours, and at that point, the pressure differential will throw the door open, and the airflow will do the rest.

If it was the main door, I'm super thankful that it stayed attached...that's a lot of weight to be flailing around the stabilizers...

Good job crew.

5 psi is not 5 pounds. It's 5 pounds per square inch, so you have to multiply that by the surface area the air is pushing on.

Darn you beat me to it

4.6psi is equal to 662 pounds per square foot, I'm sure the door is a couple feet wide by more then a couple long

[Bush League]

Err.... Why would you dump the cabin when you don't have to?... If you just turn the cabin alt. up, the rate controller will keep everyone's ears from exploding. Within a couple minutes you should be able to be at a nice, sleepy 10,000ft.

[AuxBatOn]

Err.... Why would you dump the cabin when you don't have to?... If you just turn the cabin alt. up, the rate controller will keep everyone's ears from exploding. Within a couple minutes you should be able to be at a nice, sleepy 10,000ft.

Kinda hard to pressurize with no door isn't it?

[meflypretty]

It's not the pressure on the door, its the pressure on the safety bellows mechanism inside. It is supposed to prevent you from being able to depress the button and release the door latches when pressurized. It can be tough to press even when unpressurized. He must have really wanted out.

[Finn47]

Crazy people sometimes develop amazing amounts of power... I once did a short stint at a hospital and watched security in action trying to subdue a naked patient gone nuts. It took seven men to pin him down

Door lock mechanism failed here?

[meflypretty]

Either failure or the cabin was dumped to try and knock him out.

[GFJH]

[quote="Finn47"]Crazy people sometimes develop amazing amounts of power... I once did a short stint at a hospital and watched security in action trying to subdue a naked patient gone nuts. It took seven men to pin him downquote]

sry finn but disagree i've seen a tazer and half a dozen cops try to take down a guy, after so many ppl they just get in eachothers way, and depends what the suspect is on, no idea about your cituation so cant comment

[Lurch]

It's not the pressure on the door, its the pressure on the safety bellows mechanism inside. It is supposed to prevent you from being able to depress the button and release the door latches when pressurized. It can be tough to press even when unpressurized. He must have really wanted out.

From Kenn Borek's website (http://www.borekair.com/index.php?cat=fleet#) the door on a 200 is 27" x 51 3/4"
thats 1397.25 sq" multipy that by 4.6psi dif and if my theory is right it should take 6427 pounds of force to open the door if you have to pull it inward before it opens. Now since thats impossible for a human to excert that much force I'm guessing this doesn't have to happen.

So now the question would be how much force needs to be applied to release the door latches?

[meflypretty]

Door opens outward.

I have never actually tried to depress the button while pressurized.

[Mad Flying Ace]

Either failure or the cabin was dumped to try and knock him out.

I imagine the latter was what was attempted - guy was going nuts and trying to get out, cabin was dumped to knock him out, but didn't get knocked out fast enough, and the guy got the door finally opened up and jumped out.

regards,

MFA

[2milefinal]

I imagine the latter was what was attempted - guy was going nuts and trying to get out, cabin was dumped to knock him out, but didn't get knocked out fast enough, and the guy got the door finally opened up and jumped out.

regards,

MFA

Thats the only way I see that door being opened in flight.
With over 6000 lbs of pressure on the door (pins)you would most likely snap the door-handle off (safety valve or no safety valve) before getting the door open.
Nice to hear this guy did not take anyone else with him.

[kevinsky18]

I'm amazed no one has really figured this out yet. I don't know for sure, wasn't there but can imagine what would have happened.

Your flying your pressurized plane when pax starts going nuts. . . He gets up says he wants to get off the plane, he wants to die, he is clearly unstable. . .

He makes a run for the door and starts to try and force it open. . . What do you do??? Common on first knee jerk reaction? Don't tell me you continue to fly the plane along thinking ok we are at 23000 feet and the cabin is pressurized to such and such and their's no way he's getting that door open. So really what's your first reaction?

Mine and I suspect most in that instance is going to be, "Shit he's trying to open the door the cabins going to depressurize." ok work with me people what do you do???

Dive dive dive . . .

Maybe I'm wrong, been wrong before and will be again but I bet that they weren't at 23000 when nut boy got that door open. I bet they were around 5000-10,000 feet where the air pressure would have been close to equal making the door opening relatively easy.

[Rudy]

even a twotter with flaps 10 at 90kts, the door takes quite a bit to open.

It's hitting the flap.

[mag check]

Either failure or the cabin was dumped to try and knock him out.

I imagine the latter was what was attempted - guy was going nuts and trying to get out, cabin was dumped to knock him out, but didn't get knocked out fast enough, and the guy got the door finally opened up and jumped out.

regards,

MFA

A boot full of rudder will knock a guy out quicker than dumping the cabin.

[Brantford Beech Boy]

A boot full of rudder will knock a guy out quicker than dumping the cabin.

My thoughts exactly. and/or send the F/O back with a bad attitude and a 4 d-cell mag-lite.
Would rather have a slightly injured F/O than a dead crew.

multipy that by 4.6psi dif

Beech 200 max delta P is 6.0

Door opens outward.

absolutley right for both the 200 and 100. Hence the pressure bellows to prevent unlocking the door pins/hooks.

I think it rather unlikely that they would be medevacing anyone, let alone a mental patient, to Cambridge from Yellowknife. The other direction maybe but not that direction!

Highly infrequent but I've done "patient transfers" to the communities before. Without knowing all the details, this sounds like a patient transfer (only crew and 2 pax). Also, Adlair does fly medevacs in that region.

The reason I ask if it was a patient transfer/medevac is that in the East, we always carry an RCMP officer (in addition to the medic) for these flights in order to prevent just such things from happening.

[W0X0F]

Well our boy is clearly in violation...

Entering or Leaving an Aircraft in Flight

602.25 (1) No person shall enter or leave an aircraft in flight except with the permission of the pilot-in-command of the aircraft.

(2) No pilot-in-command of an aircraft shall permit a person to enter or leave the aircraft during flight unless

(a) the person leaves for the purpose of making a parachute descent;
(amended 2006/06/30; previous version)

(b) the entering or leaving is permitted under section 702.19; or
(amended 2006/06/30; previous version)

(c) the flight is conducted in accordance with
amended 2006/06/30; no previous version)

(i) a special flight operations certificate — special aviation event issued under section 603.02, or
(amended 2006/06/30; no previous version)

(ii) a special flight operations certificate issued under section 603.67.
(amended 2006/06/30; no previous version)

Now of all the stupid CARs. I wonder how many successful convictions TC Enforcement has made. I'm guessing that even if one were to survive, they'd have a pretty good insanity argument.

[rightseatwonder]

even a twotter with flaps 10 at 90kts, the door takes quite a bit to open.

It's hitting the flap.

unless it had the airstair that goes straight out...that thing opens no problem and "flies" about halfway down. But on the normal doors.. yes I have learned that lesson the hard way.... check the door is closed before dropping the flaps down for the walk around! LOL.

i remember a prisoner did this over the Hecacte at 4500 from a single otter once... I think it'd be a hell of a way to go.

[rayban]

Here's a scary thought, once the TSA and CATSA people get their little brains around this one, what kind of restrictions are we now going to have to face in order to commute on a charter? I mean just think of it, the "terrorizers" now have yet another idea. MEATBOMBS!

Anyways, I hope a little humor goes a long way in helping us cope with these insane situations.