Av. Safety Round Table - 21/04/09 - House of Commons

[Widow]

The NDP Transport Critic, Dennis Bevington, is arranging a Round Table Discussion on Aviation Safety in the House of Commons for the 21st of April.

Although the event will not be open to the public, per se, it is possible that interested parties can be put on the "guest list" as attendees for security purposes.

I will be able to give more detail tomorrow, with respect to who is being invited as a speaker (besides myself!), and what the format will be. Press coverage is expected.

If anyone will be in Ottawa, and would like to attend, please let me know as soon as possible and I will see if I can get you onto "the list".

[Widow]

Apologies for taking so long to update this thread.

I cannot at this time provide a full speaker list, but be assured that, as well as myself and Mr. Hugh Danford, the speakers being invited are wide-ranging and with good and relevent information.

All members of the House Standing Committee on Transport, Infrastructure and Communities are being invited, as will, I believe, members of the Senate Committee on Transport. Press attendance is also confirmed. CPAC will be advised, and with luck, air the roundtable.

The event will be held in room 536 of the Wellington Building from 11am until 2pm.

Again, if anyone would like to attend as an observer, please advise me asap so that your name can be added to the list for security purposes. There will be an opportunity to ask questions following the presentations.

[Widow]

Some speakers who have confirmed include,

Emile Therien,
Past President, Canada Safety Council

Hugh Danford
Retired Civil Aviation Inspector

Phil Benson
Teamsters Canada

Kevin Gauthier
Former Airline Pilot

Kirsten Stevens
Advocate for the Safety of Workers Transported by Air

Jonathan R Huggett (by teleconference)
Engineer

David W. Hutton
Executive Director, Federal Accountability Initiative for Reform (FAIR)

Greg Holbrook
National Chairman, Canadian Federal Pilots Association

Richard Balnis
Canadian Union of Public Employees

[jeta1]

Predictable.

[C-FABH]

At least one of the names on that list makes me want to run and grab my tinfoil hat!!

[The Hammer]

CUPE and Teamster's????

Seems like a pretty predictable agenda to me.

I hope your efforts don't get wasted by these "agenda " people.

[Cat Driver]

Hugh Danford
Retired Civil Aviation Inspector


Kevin Gauthier
Former Airline Pilot

Kirsten Stevens
Advocate for the Safety of Workers Transported by Air

Jonathan R Huggett (by teleconference)
Engineer

Hopefully one of the above will say something that strikes a cord with the media.

[armchair]

anyone has any update on this? did it take place?

[MUSKEG]

Widow. You have the admiration and respect of most posters here on avcanada. We appreciate your tenacity regarding aviation safety and the attempt you are making to better conditions for flight crew. I started in this industry when there was no such thing as days off. Period. Most companies operated with skeleton crew and were able to do so by blocking days off. If you didn't want to fly thats fine. Your fired. Unfortunatety these conditions will continue to exist until the present crop of ownership move on and new people take their place. The beaches in Mexico are full of retired or partially retired owners who made their millions off the backs of pilots, who unfortunately have no one to blame but themselves. Myself included. We loved to fly and for that priviledge we now suffer with poverty wages for entry level. For you to try to change the aviation climate will take all of your stamina and most of your dignity. Not only are you fighting ownership at every turn, you are also fighting a beaucracy that likes things the way they are. They cover their collective asses and pass the buck and drag things out until most people go away. We are all hoping for inroads to be made but we too have tried to change the climate at the ownership level, mostly to no avail. As long as young people dream of flight and choose to hear only what they want to hear about the industry we are doomed to continue down this path. Should you ever decide to go into aviation as an owner you would have thousands apply for a position in your company, myself included, unfortunately the way the industry is set up it wouldn't be for long. Keep on Keepin on.

[ScudRunner]

Here I found a link to Video of the Round Table Discussion:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNqMi0Tu ... re=related

[Widow]

Funny ...

Actually, the whole thing will eventually be up on the net.

Yes it did take place.

Self-policing by airlines stirs concerns
Apr 22, 2009 04:30 AM
Comments on this story (3)
Bruce Campion-Smith

OTTAWA – Ottawa's push to let air carriers police the safety of their own operations marks a "dismantling" of regulatory oversight in this country and is a disaster in the making, a Parliament Hill forum has heard.

In sometimes moving testimony, pilots, union officials and relatives of air crash victims yesterday gave a damning condemnation of Transport Canada's ongoing move to shift responsibility for safety onto the airlines and air taxi operators.

While federal officials have claimed it will add a layer of scrutiny, it comes as Transport Canada is cutting back its own audits and inspections of aviation companies, the forum was told.

"This is a plan about making it look good ... in fact, the actual activities and actions of oversight will not occur," said Greg Holbrook, national chair of the Canadian Federal Pilots Association, whose ranks include pilot inspectors with Transport Canada.

The federal government has been introducing "safety management system," to sectors of the aviation industry, a process that lets individual firms rather than federal inspectors oversee their operations.

http://www.thestar.com/News/Canada/article/622254

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

APRIL 22, 2009

FEDERAL AVIATION SAFETY PRACTICES MUST BE INVESTIGATED
NDP TRANSPORT CRITIC DEMANDS

OTTAWA: Transport and the Transportation Safety Board (TSB) are failing in their duty to protect the safety of Canadians who travel by air and those who work in the industry and there must be a public investigation into how these agencies operate the NDP’s Transport Critic demanded today.

NDP Transport Critic Dennis Bevington made the call following a three hour round table discussion by aviation experts, he hosted.

“From what I heard this is a disaster waiting to happen,” said Bevington. “Transport and the TSB have developed a culture of secrecy where whistleblowers are persecuted and fatal accidents are seen as just a cost of doing business.”

Participants at the round table explained how they have been stonewalled by both agencies when trying to get answers about aviation accidents, how those who point out safety issues are persecuted and how in order to save money and reduce crown liability the federal government is planning to remove itself from its duty to make inspections and enforce safety regulations.

“I am particularly concerned about the plans to bring in Safety Management Systems (SMS) without the necessary public oversight in their operations,” said Bevington. “What I heard was that there is a management culture at Transport and the TSB which places dollars and cents above human lives, because of this we need a public inquiry into how these agencies have walked away from their duties.”

NDP International Commerce Critic Peter Julian expressed grave concern that Transport Canada has begun implementing SMS without any legislative authority. “This is just contrary to democracy, one of the oldest rules of Parliament is that the government may not act without the legislative authority granted by the House of Commons and the Senate.”

Joining Mr. Bevington in making this announcement were Mr. Greg Holbrooke, Chair of the Federal Pilots Association, Mr. Ian Bron, Secretary for Canadians for Accountability and Ms. Kirsten Stevens an Advocate for the Safety of Workers Transported by Air.

For More Information Contact:
Doug Johnson, Office of Dennis Bevington MP, 613-992-2131

You'll be hearing more, that's a promise.

[Cat Driver]

[flyinthebug]

You rattled some cages Kirsten! Its only a step, but a HUGE first one! Congrats on getting the media attention AND for getting the NDP critic to sit with you for over 3 hours.

Ill 2nd cats post

Keep it up Widow!! Its going to be a longgg road.

Fly safe all.
Cheers.

[square]

As long as you're there could ask pretty please for a 12 hour duty day =)=) I'd be able to both eat AND sleep this summer

[Widow]

New airline safety system doesn't meet standards: Pilots

By Sarah Schmidt, Canwest News Service
April 22, 2009 4:02 PM

Transport Canada pilots charged with inspecting the safety practices of airline operators said on Wednesday that Canada is no longer meeting international aviation standards because the government has downloaded responsibility for safety oversight to airlines.Photograph by: Dean Bicknell, Financial PostOTTAWA — Transport Canada pilots charged with inspecting the safety practices of airline operators said on Wednesday that Canada is no longer meeting international aviation standards because the government has downloaded responsibility for safety oversight to airlines.

Greg Holbrook, chairman of the federal pilots association, made the assessment when he got behind a call from the New Democrats for an investigation into Transport Canada's implementation of its new inspection model called Safety Management System (SMS).

An international first in civil aviation, SMS requires airlines to develop and oversee its own system of safety checks.

Holbrook said Transport Canada inspectors are no longer conducting traditional audits and inspections to make sure airlines are meeting all regulatory requirements, putting Canada offside with the requirements of the United Nation's International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO), to which Canada has agreed to conform as a contracting state.

"ICAO does not advocate the allowance of audits and inspections to be eliminated from the program and let operators check things themselves. They require clearly a balanced approach. It's quite clear to us that this is not happening here in Canada," said Holbrook.

Standing alongside NDP transport critic Dennis Bevington and international trade critic Peter Julian at a news conference on Parliament Hill, Holbrook said Transport Canada inspectors only "examine the air operator's safety management system to see if their system meets the requirements. It will not check for regulatory compliance."

This causes pilot inspectors "great concern" because they're only doing "one tenet of what is required by international aviation standards. Transport Canada is doing half the program and trying to present it as an additional layer, which it clearly is not," said Holbrook.

"We would request that the parliamentarians advocate a real sober second think of this whole initiative that seems to be proceeding at a juggernaut pace."

Transport Canada spokesman Patrick Charette says it's "incorrect to say that safety management systems remove government oversight. Rather, they are a proactive tool to complement our inspection regime."

Charette said "SMS targets 'root causes' to prevent problems before they happen," and that it instils more accountability and a culture of safety throughout the industry. "The fact is inspections continue as do our efforts to ensure the highest possible levels of safety for Canadians," he added.

The transition to SMS, which has already resulted in the elimination of Transport Canada's national and regional auditing programs in civil aviation, has been fully implemented at Canada's large airlines. Its full transition across all sectors of civil aviation is expected to be complete in 2010.

After instituting SMS for rail transportation in 2001, the Liberal government at the time, under the stewardship of Transport Minister David Collenette, expanded the oversight system to civil aviation, to be phased in over time.

Bevington said now is the time to put on the brakes and investigate federal civil aviation practices.

"There's a disaster in the making, and I don't want to alarm people, the flying pubic, but all of us, whether we fly in air taxis, charter aircraft, or whether we deal with scheduled air carriers, want to ensure that the best possible systems are in place to protect our safety and the safety of our loved ones. This is not happening, and in fact, it's degrading everyday," said the NDP's transportation critic.

The Canada Safety Council and Canadians for Accountability were also on hand to bolster the case for a public probe, along with Kirsten Stevens of Campbell River, B.C; her husband was one of four loggers who died after their float plane crashed off Vancouver Island in February 2005.

Ian Bron, spokesman for Canadians for Accountability and the former chief of aviation security regulations at Transport Canada, said SMS fails the "accountability test," pointing to transparency problems and concerns over whistleblower protection.

Bron said Transport Canada is not equipped to "lead a new and untested initiative in which it expects a completely different code of conduct from the airline industry. We believe if SMS does go forward, more lives will be lost to preventable accidents."

Emile Therien of the Canada Safety Council added, "aviation safety in this country is a disaster in the making."

Auditor General Sheila Fraser last year criticized the implementation of SMS in her audit of Transport Canada's oversight of air-transportation safety.

In planning for the transition and shifting resources from traditional oversight activities in its civil aviation branch, Fraser found the department did not document risks, such as the impact of the transition on oversight of safety. Transport Canada also failed to identify how many inspectors and engineers it needs during and after the transition, Fraser found.

© Copyright (c) Canwest News Service

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/airli ... story.html

[safetywatch]

I think this is the right action even if it doesn't gain traction. In recent months there have been a number of high profile issues that didn't get traction and then one day it all blew up - examples: bad senior management at the RCMP, torture by the CIA; collapse of the financial system. All of these had warnings and all had good people out there telling everyone what was going on, and initially everyone laughed and nobody listened. Any then one day it all blew up in everyone's face. I sincerely hope this is not prophetic, but I suspect what is going to happen is there is going to be a major air disaster, and then everyone is going to follow Greenspan's question "How did that happen?"

It always takes a disaster to get peoples attention but that doesn't mean that this group isn't right to at least try - at least when disaster strikes their conscience will be clear!

[Cat Driver]

Speaking of disasters when will we be rid of Merlin Preuss?

It should be interesting to see who the good old boys club replaces him with.

[armchair]

The pilot inspector union is very vocal about this, with Greg Holbrook bearing the brunt of the assault for a balanced approach to SMS. Has the union representing maintenance inspectors in TC done the same amount of lobbying? Perhaps the lobbyists (those at the round-table for instance) could back-up their claims that TC is not implementing SMS properly, by providing concrete examples. The media lines do not seem to provide any details other than saying TC will not be doing this or that anymore. Has it or is it actually happening, or is it speculation?

[Prairie Chicken]

Armchair, a lot of it has been instituted already. For example, there are very few in-flight checks done by TC anymore. Those were phased out years ago. As far as I know, TC only do check rides on check pilots now, and that may change. Audits have been replaced by SMS assessments. Unless the assessment suggests further oversight is required, they don't audit an SMS enterprise. The CBA & M&M divisions could elaborate more. Enforcement action against SMS enterprises has ceased. except in extreme circumstances. Then there is delegation to industry to do test flights. It’s rare to see TC doing many of those any more.

Does it matter whether TC or the company check pilot does the ride? It shouldn't, but it does. For example, if you're a company check pilot & do a ride on your chief pilot/employer and he fails, do you fail him? Maybe not. Next PPC he fails again, and his flying is getting worse. Do you fail him this time? And so on ...

[Widow]

armchair, I'm not sure by whom the maintenance inspectors are represented, and am trying to find out. I would be surprised if they were not of the same opinion as CFPA.

BTW, here is a full list of all the speakers at the roundtable.

Kirsten Brazier
Professional Pilot

Emile Therien,
Past President, Canada Safety Council

Hugh Danford
Retired Civil Aviation Inspector

Phil Benson
Teamsters Canada

Kevin Gauthier
Former Airline Pilot

Jonathan R Huggett (by teleconference)
Engineer and father of SonicBlue pilot

David W. Hutton
Executive Director, Federal Accountability Initiative for Reform (FAIR)

Greg Holbrook
National Chairman, Canadian Federal Pilots Association

Richard Balnis
Canadian Union of Public Employees

Mark Tayfel
Former Keystone Pilot

Ian Bron
Former TC Chief of Marine/Aviation Security
Canadians for Accountability

Haiyan Zhang
Canadians for Accountability

Kirsten Stevens
Advocate for the Safety of Workers Transported by Air

Please don't forget, the Frequency of Inspection Policy has been cancelled and replaced with the Surveillance Policy.

[Prairie Chicken]

PSAC is the union that represents the AME & FA inspectors. I’m not sure of their position, but there is conflict between the pilot association (CFPA) and PSAC because the move to less hands-on inspection and more SMS assessment means less need for specialist abilities. Read salary considerations in here. The concern is that this could lead to less technical expertise in TC when the need arises.

[jeta1]

... the move to less hands-on inspection and more SMS assessment means less need for specialist abilities. Read salary considerations in here. The concern is that this could lead to less technical expertise in TC when the need arises.

You hit it on the nail.

[snoopy]

Are you sure it is PSAC? According to the UCTE they represent maintenance inspectors. They had a representative at the round table - ex president Michael Wing.
Cheers,
snoopy

[CD]

The UCTE is a component of PSAC. These are the employee groups within CivAv and their representatives:

* Engineers (ENG) - Professional Institute of the Public Service of Canada (PIPSC)
* Technical Inspection (TI) - Public Service Alliance of Canada (PSAC)
* Aircraft Operations (AO) - Canadian Federal Pilots Association (CFPA)
* Aircraft Maintenance Engineer (EG) - Public Service Alliance of Canada (PSAC)
* Avionics Maintenance (EL) - International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers (IBEW)

[jeta1]

All speakers and their speeches have been posted on YouTube. Just search any name of attendees and you'll find them. I watched several of them and it is worth watching. Well done .