Online Petition to Scrap the Long Gun Registry

[HS-748 2A]

I'm no lawyer Rockie but I think you've got that upsidedown and backwards.

The "OR" in 117.02(1)(a) allows them to search my premises, granted not my dwelling, without a warrant if they merely have reason to belive that I own an unregistered firearm, as that would be an example of:

(b) that an offence is being committed, or has been committed, under any provision of this Act that involves, or the subject-matter of which is, a firearm, an imitation firearm, a cross-bow, a prohibited weapon, a restricted weapon, a prohibited device, ammunition, prohibited ammunition or an explosive substance

That's my take anyhow.

48

[Rockie]

I'm no lawyer Rockie but I think you've got that upsidedown and backwards.

The "OR" in 117.02(1)(a) allows them to search my premises, granted not my dwelling, without a warrant if they merely have reason to belive that I own an unregistered firearm, as that would be an example of:

(b) that an offence is being committed, or has been committed, under any provision of this Act that involves, or the subject-matter of which is, a firearm, an imitation firearm, a cross-bow, a prohibited weapon, a restricted weapon, a prohibited device, ammunition, prohibited ammunition or an explosive substance

That's my take anyhow.

48

Seems to me you're trying to help the Nazi stormtroopers search you and find weapons. In any event the solution is simple, keep them in the same place you dwell (I suggest under the bed) and you won't have a problem.

[Dex]

I'm no lawyer Rockie but I think you've got that upsidedown and backwards.

The "OR" in 117.02(1)(a) allows them to search my premises, granted not my dwelling, without a warrant if they merely have reason to belive that I own an unregistered firearm, as that would be an example of:

(b) that an offence is being committed, or has been committed, under any provision of this Act that involves, or the subject-matter of which is, a firearm, an imitation firearm, a cross-bow, a prohibited weapon, a restricted weapon, a prohibited device, ammunition, prohibited ammunition or an explosive substance

That's my take anyhow.

48

117.02
a) ....was used in the commission of an offence,
b) that an offence is being committed, or has been committed,...

I guess if you don't want too see it you will not. But it is pretty clear section 117.02 of the Criminal Code Of Canada does not give officers any more powers than section 529.3. So don't worry HS your Charter of Rights and Freedoms are not being violated and the government is not out to get you!!! This time!!!

[Dex]

In hindsight maybe Hitler had the right idea. I guess we'll never know.

Did I misinterpret this? This is not a bigger deal to anyone else?

I didn't even try to interpret this. Once people bring up Hitler and the Jews to support their argument they have nothing to contribute to the debate.

[HS-748 2A]

Wasn't one of Hitler's ideas to register everybody's guns and then confiscate them?

http://www.stephenhalbrook.com/registra ... ation.html

Yup, it's a small step from registering firearms to invading Poland, plunging an entire continent into war and gassing 6 million people. We need to be very careful here.

All it would take is another reason, such as the FLQ Crissis, for the government to enact marshal law.

"OK you sheep who blissfully registered your guns - Turn them in to the nearest police station."

As I said previosly in this thread, one only need look as far as the murder and attempted cover up in the Robert Diezchanski case to see the extent to which we can trust the RCMP to look out for our best interests.

Those who will not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

[Dex]

Wasn't one of Hitler's ideas to register everybody's guns and then confiscate them?

http://www.stephenhalbrook.com/registra ... ation.html

Yup, it's a small step from registering firearms to invading Poland, plunging an entire continent into war and gassing 6 million people. We need to be very careful here.

All it would take is another reason, such as the FLQ Crissis, for the government to enact marshal law.

"OK you sheep who blissfully registered your guns - Turn them in to the nearest police station."

As I said previosly in this thread, one only need look as far as the murder and attempted cover up in the Robert Diezchanski case to see the extent to which we can trust the RCMP to look out for our best interests.

Those who will not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

You mean if our government were to exercise the Emergencies Act. Not to worry HS "AND WHEREAS the Governor in Council, in taking such special temporary measures, would be subject to the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms and the Canadian Bill of Rights and must have regard to the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, particularly with respect to those fundamental rights that are not to be limited or abridged even in a national"
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/showdoc/cs ... &length=50

[HS-748 2A]

I don't "worry" Dex, my guns aren't registered.

Wherever you want to put your trust. That's fine with me.

[NWONT]

Niss you are right, I was way out of line with that stupid comment. Sometimes I like to give you a little poke cause you keep flogging the Jew thing. I'm a believer in separation of church and state, and church and anything else for that matter. I'm sure there are Moslems on Avcanada but they're not doing that. I wonder if they are offended. Mel Gibson got himself into a bunch of crap for making a comment about how the Jews are the major cause of wars. I think religion is the major cause. Jews and Moslems can't get along. In Ireland Cathlics and Prodestants can't agree on anything. Wouldn't it be a riot if at the end of the world and everybody goes to the place he thinks is heaven and when they get there they find out they have all been worshiping the same guy just calling him by different names.

[Rockie]

I don't "worry" Dex, my guns aren't registered.

Wherever you want to put your trust. That's fine with me.

Ooooooh....careful. The stormtroopers can easily find out who you are you know. Aren't you worried?

[culver10]

That might be an interesting poll; How many shotguns and gopher guns do you know of that are not registered??

I know a "guy" who has 3 shotguns and 2- .22's, so that = 5 so far

[mcrit]

Who's Allen Rock? Oh yeah, he used to be a politician.

Yes, a politician that was put in a position of power by a lot of the same background people that are poised to take power again. If you should like examples of serving politicians that worry legit gun owners try Taliban Jack, Miller, or any number of NDP or Liberal backbenchers from Toronto.

mcrit wrote:
The only people with handguns there are the Yakuza.

I'm pretty sure the police have them as well, along with lots of bigger firepower. Do you honestly think having a handgun is going to defend you from the Yakuza?

The beat cops in Japan don't carry guns, just some really big night sticks. The Japanese don't need to arm their cops for a few reasons. 1.) The Japanese courts are not at all stacked in the favour of the accused. You only get a lawyer if the judge thinks you need one. 2.) There is no cable TV in Japanese jail. Nor are there gyms, regular TV or radios. There are however fish heads and rice and guards that are allowed to beat you silly if you step out of line. 3.) The Japanese cops don't deal with street crime, the Yakuza does (kind of a quid pro quo in that the cops turn a blind eye to Yakuza drugs/gambling/hookers). Nobody wants to mess with the Yakuza (they cut off their own fingers if they screw up; imagine what they do to someone they really don't like). The Yakuza are criminals. The Yakuza are the only ones with guns. This lends credence to the adage, "When you out law guns, only the outlaws will have guns".

Your question about using a handgun to defend myself from the Yakuza is a complete non-sequitur in that I never implied that was the purpose for keeping a handgun. You are letting the level of your debate slip. I will however answer that question. I would not be at all worried about the Yakuza (in fact I would support a handgun ban if it came with the Yakuza to clean up the streets). As long as you aren't running drugs, hookers, or gambling the Yakuza stay out of your hair (yes, they do sell 'insurance', but given that they keep the streets safe I'd be willing to cough up some cash for them). If I should ever find myself on their bad side I would not rely on a handgun. That would be foolish. I would rent a Ninja (Everyone knows the only thing that can beat a Yakuza is a Ninja). If I found myself on the bad side of a Ninja I would hire............. Norris.

[Rockie]

Who's Allen Rock? Oh yeah, he used to be a politician.

Yes, a politician that was put in a position of power by a lot of the same background people that are poised to take power again. If you should like examples of serving politicians that worry legit gun owners try Taliban Jack, Miller, or any number of NDP or Liberal backbenchers from Toronto.

mcrit wrote:
The only people with handguns there are the Yakuza.

I'm pretty sure the police have them as well, along with lots of bigger firepower. Do you honestly think having a handgun is going to defend you from the Yakuza?

The beat cops in Japan don't carry guns, just some really big night sticks. The Japanese don't need to arm their cops for a few reasons. 1.) The Japanese courts are not at all stacked in the favour of the accused. You only get a lawyer if the judge thinks you need one. 2.) There is no cable TV in Japanese jail. Nor are there gyms, regular TV or radios. There are however fish heads and rice and guards that are allowed to beat you silly if you step out of line. 3.) The Japanese cops don't deal with street crime, the Yakuza does (kind of a quid pro quo in that the cops turn a blind eye to Yakuza drugs/gambling/hookers). Nobody wants to mess with the Yakuza (they cut off their own fingers if they screw up; imagine what they do to someone they really don't like). The Yakuza are criminals. The Yakuza are the only ones with guns. This lends credence to the adage, "When you out law guns, only the outlaws will have guns".

Your question about using a handgun to defend myself from the Yakuza is a complete non-sequitur in that I never implied that was the purpose for keeping a handgun. You are letting the level of your debate slip. I will however answer that question. I would not be at all worried about the Yakuza (in fact I would support a handgun ban if it came with the Yakuza to clean up the streets). As long as you aren't running drugs, hookers, or gambling the Yakuza stay out of your hair (yes, they do sell 'insurance', but given that they keep the streets safe I'd be willing to cough up some cash for them). If I should ever find myself on their bad side I would not rely on a handgun. That would be foolish. I would rent a Ninja (Everyone knows the only thing that can beat a Yakuza is a Ninja). If I found myself on the bad side of a Ninja I would hire............. Norris.

So the Yakuza is in charge of law enforcement in Japan? I did not know that. I would have thought it would be the police that answered the 911 calls and here you tell me it's the Yakuza. Learn something new everyday.

[Doc]

Rockie, I'm becoming concerned. You aren't eating. You're not sleeping. How could you be? You have no time.
Cheers

[Rockie]

Rockie, I'm becoming concerned. You aren't eating. You're not sleeping. How could you be? You have no time.
Cheers

1974/5427

Just sayin...

[Doc]

You're starting to remind me of me, when I go on about training bonds. LOL

[grimey]

The beat cops in Japan don't carry guns, just some really big night sticks. The Japanese don't need to arm their cops for a few reasons. 1.) The Japanese courts are not at all stacked in the favour of the accused. You only get a lawyer if the judge thinks you need one. 2.) There is no cable TV in Japanese jail. Nor are there gyms, regular TV or radios. There are however fish heads and rice and guards that are allowed to beat you silly if you step out of line.

http://www.stippy.com/japan-life/gaijin ... -prison-1/

[Dex]

Which reminds me... I believe the Amnesty is up on May 14 2009 ( if memory serves me). Has Harper added another, or plan to?

[HS-748 2A]

I think the last word was that there would not be any prosecutions under the 'registration' component of Bill C-68. The rule, however, is still on the books.

[JakeYYZ]

Which reminds me... I believe the Amnesty is up on May 14 2009 ( if memory serves me). Has Harper added another, or plan to?

Here you go:

ORDER AMENDING THE ORDER DECLARING AN AMNESTY PERIOD (2006)
AMENDMENTS
1. (1) Subparagraph 2(1)(b)(ii) of the Order Declaring an Amnesty Period (2006) (see footnote 1) is replaced by the following:
(ii) that will have expired during the period beginning on May 17, 2006 and ending on May 16, 2010.
(2) Subsection 2(3) of the Order is replaced by the following:
(3) The amnesty period begins on May 17, 2006 and ends on May 16, 2010.
COMING INTO FORCE
2. This Order comes into force on the day on which it is registered.

Filed March 28/09.

Link: http://www.gazette.gc.ca/rp-pr/p1/2009/ ... 3-eng.html

[mcrit]

So the Yakuza is in charge of law enforcement in Japan? I did not know that. I would have thought it would be the police that answered the 911 calls and here you tell me it's the Yakuza. Learn something new everyday.

Actually it's 119 in Japan, but the odds are that if you step out of line you'll find yourself infront of the local Yakuza boss well before the cops find you. Either way, the Yakuza have guns.

So, do you think that legal gun owners have nothing to worrry about from Taliban Jack and Mayor Miller?

[Rockie]

So the Yakuza is in charge of law enforcement in Japan? I did not know that. I would have thought it would be the police that answered the 911 calls and here you tell me it's the Yakuza. Learn something new everyday.

Actually it's 119 in Japan, but the odds are that if you step out of line you'll find yourself infront of the local Yakuza boss well before the cops find you. Either way, the Yakuza have guns.

So, do you think that legal gun owners have nothing to worrry about from Taliban Jack and Mayor Miller?

I seriously doubt it's the Yakuza that maintain law and order in Japan, but I have a feeling that one will never get settled. I also think the people of Toronto have plenty to fear from David Miller, but no one else in the country does. And as long as Jack Layton is in federal politics no one has to be worried about him either. He might stand a chance as Toronto mayor though, in that town they have shown remarkably poor judgment.

[Dex]

Which reminds me... I believe the Amnesty is up on May 14 2009 ( if memory serves me). Has Harper added another, or plan to?

Here you go:

ORDER AMENDING THE ORDER DECLARING AN AMNESTY PERIOD (2006)
AMENDMENTS
1. (1) Subparagraph 2(1)(b)(ii) of the Order Declaring an Amnesty Period (2006) (see footnote 1) is replaced by the following:
(ii) that will have expired during the period beginning on May 17, 2006 and ending on May 16, 2010.
(2) Subsection 2(3) of the Order is replaced by the following:
(3) The amnesty period begins on May 17, 2006 and ends on May 16, 2010.
COMING INTO FORCE
2. This Order comes into force on the day on which it is registered.

Filed March 28/09.

Link: http://www.gazette.gc.ca/rp-pr/p1/2009/ ... 3-eng.html

Thanks. I knew Harper had to do something I just hadn't heard anything publicly.

[mcrit]

I seriously doubt it's the Yakuza that maintain law and order in Japan, but I have a feeling that one will never get settled.

Dude, I lived there for two years and saw a few fellows catch hell from the Yakuza for stepping out of line (one fellow got a broken nose for pestering some chicks while he was drunk, the other a really severe beating for getting in a brawl at the local bar). Don't take my word for it, check out this bookhttp://books.google.ca/books?id=XG2AfXL ... t&resnum=2

The Yakuza have...

been seen as to have played a part in controlling disorganized crime within their nawabari.....

I am a stuborn person by nature, and even more so when I'm right. If you should like to argue the ins and outs of organized crime in Japan I will oblige you, but be warned I can back up my position.

All of this does not change the fact that the hanggun ban in Japan has not kept handguns out of the hands of criminals. Also, like I said, I'll drop my opposition to a handgun ban, as long as it comes with yakuza to deal with street crime and Japanese style prisons.

With neither the liberals nor the conservatives in a position to form a majority government I'd say Taliban Jack is in a pretty good potential position to infulence policy. While I agree with you that Torontonians have bad judgement and that they need to fear David "No Bridge" Miller, you can't really believe that the above mentioned mayor settle for being a municipal politician for the rest of career? With guys like this running around legal gun owners have every reason to be scared.

[Rockie]

I lived in a foreign country for longer than you lived in Japan, but I wouldn't presume to intimate knowledge of their organized crime or law enforcement. Who cares if you saw a couple people beat up. You grossly overestimate Layton and Miller's potential influence on Canadian politics so your assessment of Japanese law and order doesn't exactly convince me either.

Organized crime in the United States and Canada protect their turf as well (ever heard of the Hell's Angels), but that hardly puts the police out of work does it?

[mcrit]

I lived in a foreign country for longer than you lived in Japan, but I wouldn't presume to intimate knowledge of their organized crime or law enforcement.

Dude, I don't claim to be an expert in the Japanese underworld. I just claim that what I saw (two different guys on two different occassions hauled out of their apartments by some very serious looking dudes with tatoos), jives with what I've read (remember that reference that I gave you?...among others) and also jives with what all my Japanese friends tell me. What are you bringing to the table? Also, none of this bears on the fact that the total handgun ban in Japan has not prevented criminals from getting guns.

You grossly overestimate Layton and Miller's potential influence on Canadian politics...

Yeah....you're right. The leader of a Federal Party that could very likely play king maker after the next election and the mayor of the most populous city in Canada have no political clout at all, real feather weights.