Hey Everybody,
I recently graduated from a Diploma program last year and I have still not been able to get my first job. I talked to a Chief pilot a few times over the phone and he seemed like he might be interested but the 4th time i talked to him he said he already hired who he needed. I am wondering how everybody else got their start...was it through a connection that you had or pure luck...pestering the same company over and over again?
How did you get your start?
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$1.85 driver
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Luck, and a lot of "polite" pestering...it's a fine line.
A good resume helps too...they assume you can fly, you got the licence, now what ELSE can you do for them that will make it worth their while to hire you.
Customer service, any trade skills, outgoing, enthusiastic (not just another quiet pilot)
A good resume helps too...they assume you can fly, you got the licence, now what ELSE can you do for them that will make it worth their while to hire you.
Customer service, any trade skills, outgoing, enthusiastic (not just another quiet pilot)
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Cat Driver
- Top Poster
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One way would be to get in real good with the owners wife, then she will do the work to get you a job to keep you close at hand. 
Cat
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
I know what you are talking about. At one time I went through that, as I sent out hundreds of resumes and I was lucky if I even got a reply. It is great that you got you diploma but it is only a start. At this time you do not have anything to offer the many companies that you have sent out your resumes to. The aviation industry is one that seems to be now run by the insurance industry. I just had a call last week for a job and the chief pilot stated that he a pile of resumes from one of the aviation colleges. He told me that those resumes will just sit there as he can not do anything with them. My resume is lucky enough as it will be sent the insurance company to see if he can hire me. All I can say become a dockhand, pump fuel at the the local airport or anything else to get you in the air.
yep that was me sending out hundreds of resumes...but i actually got a lot of nice letters from chief pilots...some even said how like you said the aviation industry is run by insurance companies and it makes it harder for us low timers to get a job. I was impressed how personable he was in the letter. Made me feel a little better anyway about my position.
It is true that the insurance companies make it hard to hire low time pilots, but there are still place out there that do. The key is to figure out which ones do and keep on them till they hire you. WITHOUT PISSING ANYONE OFF!
Sitting at home sending out hundreds of resumes isn't going to work.... it is a waste of time. We get lots of resumes here from 250 hr wonder, but when we hire a low timer it is the guy who shows up on the door step when we need someone. This is the case at most companies. So go ahead and send the resume (if it is too far to hand deliver) and then phone and check to see what is going on. When you phone it isn't always best to ask for the chief pilot, sometimes you can get more info from someone else who works there.... maybe a pilot anwsered the phone. Either way if there is any hint of a job possibility pack the car and get there as soon as possibly.
Sitting at home sending out hundreds of resumes isn't going to work.... it is a waste of time. We get lots of resumes here from 250 hr wonder, but when we hire a low timer it is the guy who shows up on the door step when we need someone. This is the case at most companies. So go ahead and send the resume (if it is too far to hand deliver) and then phone and check to see what is going on. When you phone it isn't always best to ask for the chief pilot, sometimes you can get more info from someone else who works there.... maybe a pilot anwsered the phone. Either way if there is any hint of a job possibility pack the car and get there as soon as possibly.
Your mistake was not showing up on his door step when he seemed interested. No 250 hr wonder is going to get a phone call offering them a job...... GET OUT THERE IN PEREON!I talked to a Chief pilot a few times over the phone and he seemed like he might be interested but the 4th time i talked to him he said he already hired who he needed.
Last edited by merlin on Sat Feb 26, 2005 5:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
CanFlyBoy:
"It would be impossible to hop into my car and talk t the CP in person. No roads into the community".
That attitude won't get you a job. And thats the attitude that I've personally seen from guys that have tried to get me to help them, get jobs at the company I work for. It isn't supposed to be easy, if it was a lot more people would be in aviation.
Maybe you couldn't have driven to the community where the company is based. But you could have driven to a hub community that the company services, and met one of their planes, pilots and probably the CP of the company. You probably could have weaseled a ride to the community on their plane, or even one of their competitors. Pilots in the north are pretty accomodating this way I have found. Once you showed the initiative, you probably would have impressed the CP enough to cement the deal, where as the 4th phone call obviously didn't work. On the way, you would have met many different operators and pilots, and developed those all important contacts at other companies. This would have increased your chances greatly all around. Spending time on your computer, and phone hasn't helped you so far, and a word of advice, it wont. Get out there, meet people, make contacts, show some initative, and things will eventually work out for you. If not...well...
I got my first job by hopping in with a guy going up north to a job I heard about. I showed up, told the operator I heard he needed a guy ASAP (I had inside info the current pilot was quitting), and said I was available and willing to do whatever, whenever. I was given 2 days to go back to my home city, pack up, put everything in storage, and get back up north, to work a really sh**tty job, lousy conditions, lived in a filthy hell hole for 5 months in the bug infested north, but in the end it all payed off. I'm now working for an awesome turbine operator, and look back on my days in the north fondly (dont ask, you have to do it to appreciate it). It's what you're going to have to do, so get at it.
"It would be impossible to hop into my car and talk t the CP in person. No roads into the community".
That attitude won't get you a job. And thats the attitude that I've personally seen from guys that have tried to get me to help them, get jobs at the company I work for. It isn't supposed to be easy, if it was a lot more people would be in aviation.
Maybe you couldn't have driven to the community where the company is based. But you could have driven to a hub community that the company services, and met one of their planes, pilots and probably the CP of the company. You probably could have weaseled a ride to the community on their plane, or even one of their competitors. Pilots in the north are pretty accomodating this way I have found. Once you showed the initiative, you probably would have impressed the CP enough to cement the deal, where as the 4th phone call obviously didn't work. On the way, you would have met many different operators and pilots, and developed those all important contacts at other companies. This would have increased your chances greatly all around. Spending time on your computer, and phone hasn't helped you so far, and a word of advice, it wont. Get out there, meet people, make contacts, show some initative, and things will eventually work out for you. If not...well...
I got my first job by hopping in with a guy going up north to a job I heard about. I showed up, told the operator I heard he needed a guy ASAP (I had inside info the current pilot was quitting), and said I was available and willing to do whatever, whenever. I was given 2 days to go back to my home city, pack up, put everything in storage, and get back up north, to work a really sh**tty job, lousy conditions, lived in a filthy hell hole for 5 months in the bug infested north, but in the end it all payed off. I'm now working for an awesome turbine operator, and look back on my days in the north fondly (dont ask, you have to do it to appreciate it). It's what you're going to have to do, so get at it.
As sad as it is, it is all about who you know and being in the right place at the right time! Get out and make some contacts because you will get real old sitting waiting for the phone to ring!
You Can Love An Airplane All You Want, But Remember, It Will Never Love You Back!
I agree I could have gone to a hub community but actually driving there and getting lucky to have someone talk to you are very hard things to do especially when i have a full time job. So do i either wait a couple months and take a week off and try to talk to someone in the community or just quit my job and go looking now. Hard decisions!
CanFlyBoy:
Your competition is folks who HAVE quit their jobs and are available right now. Unless your job is a dream job for you or is going to lead you to a great job, quit and get going. If you wait for 2 months and take a week off, you will just be visiting a bunch of very busy companies who don't have time to talk to you and have already hired for the season.
Your competition is folks who HAVE quit their jobs and are available right now. Unless your job is a dream job for you or is going to lead you to a great job, quit and get going. If you wait for 2 months and take a week off, you will just be visiting a bunch of very busy companies who don't have time to talk to you and have already hired for the season.
As mentioned before, waiting for the phone to ring hasn't worked so hot yet.I could have gone to a hub community but actually driving there and getting lucky to have someone talk to you are very hard things to do especially when i have a full time job
Job add in the paper:
Linecrew wanted
Linecrew wanted
"FLY THE AIRPLANE"!
http://www.youtube.com/hazatude
http://www.youtube.com/hazatude
I got in my 13 year-old-car with my CPL and 50 hours of float time which I obtained right-seat, freight-only etc., after a year of dispatching. Drove from YPR to Thunder Bay and spoke to EVERYONE in sight of an a/c. Phoned them all first and then knocked on their door. Sitting in YWG on the way back, got a call back from a guy in Northern Saskatchewan who said "we needed someone yesterday." Gassed the jalopy and immediately left for a place as far north as the road used to go; got to build a dock 'coz there was still ice on the lake, then spent 3 weeks hauling fish in an antique 180. Graduated to people, lived in a plywood shack all summer, flew 300 hours in a 185, got lost with the RCMP on board, drank waaaay too much, got laid off when the snow flew and the rest is (my) history.
"What's it doing now?"
"Fly low and slow and throttle back in the turns."
"Fly low and slow and throttle back in the turns."
Oh so true. Some days I think I'm going crazy up here, and drinking way too much (well I know I'm drinking too much). Anyhow, I already know that when I get out of here and look back it will be with some fondness..... go figure.I'm now working for an awesome turbine operator, and look back on my days in the north fondly (dont ask, you have to do it to appreciate it). It's what you're going to have to do, so get at it.
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wha happen
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I agree to a point with the resume thing not working. But there is always the chance that it will come across the right guys desk at the right time. It could be as simple as he used to live where you are, or worked around the area. Slim chance, but it could happen. I am proof of that.
As for the letters that we get back in the mail, dont fool yourself. They are called PFO letters for a reason. Polite, but to the point.
Get off your a$$ and get out there. Start hitting some operators, let them know that you will do ANYTHING to get your foot in the door. Its a slow painful death for the guys who sit by the phone, waiting for the jet job to call them.
Im off my soap box now.
As for the letters that we get back in the mail, dont fool yourself. They are called PFO letters for a reason. Polite, but to the point.
Get off your a$$ and get out there. Start hitting some operators, let them know that you will do ANYTHING to get your foot in the door. Its a slow painful death for the guys who sit by the phone, waiting for the jet job to call them.
Im off my soap box now.
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Cleared to FL370
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I'd have to agree with everyone else on this topic. If you want to be a pilot you need to get going. There are ALOT of 250 hour pilots out there. Unfortunatly most operators are looking for quite a bit more. Road trips are a must. In the early 90's before I got my start, I passed up on a dock job in Northern Manitoba because I was too proud to take it. BIG MISTAKE ON MY PART!! Spent the rest of that year kicking myself in the backside for being stupid. I would have been flying later that year.
I did get a second chance the following year, answered an ad in the Newspaper, went to work for a company in NW Ontario and then Northern MB, flying a 180 (floats, skiis and wheels) fixing photocopiers on the Reserves.
I've talked to many pilot wannabies, guys that don't want to work up north, or to travel to meet a few Chief Pilots. Good luck finding a job you'll need it.
Had a great time up north, met alot of great people made some great friends. Most important of all, ALOT of excellent time in YE 'OL Logbook. I'd recommend getting your start up north to anyone.
I did get a second chance the following year, answered an ad in the Newspaper, went to work for a company in NW Ontario and then Northern MB, flying a 180 (floats, skiis and wheels) fixing photocopiers on the Reserves.
I've talked to many pilot wannabies, guys that don't want to work up north, or to travel to meet a few Chief Pilots. Good luck finding a job you'll need it.
Had a great time up north, met alot of great people made some great friends. Most important of all, ALOT of excellent time in YE 'OL Logbook. I'd recommend getting your start up north to anyone.
Isn't the north addictive, I want to go back so so bad, but unfortunatly I have moved down another road, for the best I hope. You learn so may skills, get to see so many places, and meet alot of people that will help you and point you in the right direction.
People look down on going north, mostly because they have never seen it, instead of disney land i think everyone should get to see the north. As everyone has said there is nothing like being in the right place at the right time, and phone calls are good, but I remember someones face for a lot longer than there voice!
So keep on truckin'
People look down on going north, mostly because they have never seen it, instead of disney land i think everyone should get to see the north. As everyone has said there is nothing like being in the right place at the right time, and phone calls are good, but I remember someones face for a lot longer than there voice!
So keep on truckin'
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Over the Horn
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I've got to agree with all the people who love the north the flying is awesome and the parties even better , that said at our company we get hundreds of resume's a month by email or fax, sending them this way waste's our fax paper (we can't just run to staples and get more) and will probably just go in the garbage 
especialy when you can tell that the resume's been faxed to everyone and there dog. The best way is to snail mail your resume personalized to the C.P. and tailored for the company, (Don't say you are looking for an F.O. job when we don't fly 2 crew machines 
) we always respond to personalized resumes out of politeness, however the best way to get a job is to show up in person the last guy that did that didn't get a job with us but we sent him to the competition and he ended up flying over 1000 hrs this year and made some good contacts that will probably help in the future. On another note what the hell is with all these colledge kids and there 747/737/whatever sim. time how much are these guy's (flight schools) scamming you for when we see this on a resume its automatically throw it out, because the thinking is this guy doesn't what to fly bush planes and will probally run south the first time a local drunk picks a fight with him in the bar, save your money when the time comes for that hopefully the company your working for will pay for it then ( then again the way this industy is going? ) . Good luck to all the 250 hr wonders out there we were all there once and went through the same thing 
, that said at our company we get hundreds of resume's a month by email or fax, sending them this way waste's our fax paper (we can't just run to staples and get more) and will probably just go in the garbage especialy when you can tell that the resume's been faxed to everyone and there dog. The best way is to snail mail your resume personalized to the C.P. and tailored for the company, (Don't say you are looking for an F.O. job when we don't fly 2 crew machines ) we always respond to personalized resumes out of politeness, however the best way to get a job is to show up in person the last guy that did that didn't get a job with us but we sent him to the competition and he ended up flying over 1000 hrs this year and made some good contacts that will probably help in the future. On another note what the hell is with all these colledge kids and there 747/737/whatever sim. time how much are these guy's (flight schools) scamming you for when we see this on a resume its automatically throw it out, because the thinking is this guy doesn't what to fly bush planes and will probally run south the first time a local drunk picks a fight with him in the bar, save your money when the time comes for that hopefully the company your working for will pay for it then ( then again the way this industy is going? ) . Good luck to all the 250 hr wonders out there we were all there once and went through the same thing -
ScudRunner
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I think there was a forum about Resume's sometime ago (im to lazy to look for it) had all sorts of usefull info from the regular crowd talking about what to put on it and what not to. Some Of my all time favorites Resumes had things like people stating "im able to support myself for the season" Guess where that one ended up Other people proclaiming they have their "Mountain Rating" Maybe Regency can sell ya that one. 
Dont waste your time with fluffy could paper (if you do this here's a link) http://www.ngpa.org/
But a must is putting your stats and a picture of yourself, especially if your an ugly bastard this provides many hours of entertainment because it will be posted in the pilots lounge.
Good Luck
Other people proclaiming they have their "Mountain Rating" Maybe Regency can sell ya that one. Dont waste your time with fluffy could paper (if you do this here's a link) http://www.ngpa.org/
But a must is putting your stats and a picture of yourself, especially if your an ugly bastard this provides many hours of entertainment because it will be posted in the pilots lounge.
Good Luck
