ORNGE?

[ng78]

It has been quiet on the ORNGE front lately. What's the word on the street, have they hired all the captains and F/O's they need initially? When are they actually starting operations?

[Brown Bear]

I wouldn't hold your breath. There may be some shit trying to find it's way to the fan. Heard some rumour about the Ontario Ministry of Health going ahead with a major purchase (4 PC12 aircraft) without going through the proper channels. I be really surprised if Ornge ever gets off the ground. Hope you guys didn't give up "real" jobs for MOH's pie in the sky, dream.

[ng78]

Interesting, whether it's true or not. However, the aircraft are in Thunder Bay, so I'm sure they won't go unused. Hopefully pilots and others don't get screwed because of somebody's bugaboo.

[2R]

I wouldn't hold your breath. There may be some shit trying to find it's way to the fan. Heard some rumour about the Ontario Ministry of Health going ahead with a major purchase (4 PC12 aircraft) without going through the proper channels. I be really surprised if Ornge ever gets off the ground. Hope you guys didn't give up "real" jobs for MOH's pie in the sky, dream.

I thought it was Ten Swiss built aircraft ordered ,I wonder who will get the Commision and if it will be in a secret swiss bank account
or in a brown bag like the Schreibers Airbus kickbacks (32 millions was mentioned in German courts) .Or will whoever get to approve have a nice villa in the south of france to use too like another well known purchaser(The man with shiney boots and a funny hat ) of aircraft made in a country with "secret banking "

I wonder if the Premier is aware of how much money has been spent by one department on New foreign built aircraft when there are factories being closed in Ontario After all 260 millions is not small change.If spent locally might even create some economic activity back in the rust belt of southern ontario .Somebody should ask him

[ng78]

[2R]

A change in Government might mean the end of Orng .Any one old enough to remember what happened to the Air Ambulance Citations operated by the BC air ambulance service.When the Socialist menace got elected they sold off all the planes and shut down the air ambulance service in the first three weeks .Because it was a Socred idea and any idea the Socreds had must be bad so all those nice shiney planes where gone at bargin basement prices.
It required some really fat contracts to get the private sector interested in providing service in the fickle political market of BC.
It takes a lot of investment to get in that sector of business and to be subject to silly political whims deters most from the petty politics that deter the service that should be offered to the PATIENTS.
Try leasing a King Air 350 without a contract .

Any air ambulance service should be about the PATIENTS not the politics.

[Brown Bear]

Are there no insurance issues with the use of single aircraft? I have flown some top company personnel who's insurance states very clearly that they must travel in multi engined aircraft. I am NOT making this up.
I'm surprised the Ontario Government thinks of the Doctors and paramedics who will ride on these airplanes as non essential personnel?
There must be some free Rolex watches in this for somebody??
I'll be contacting my MPP this week, because I don't think Ornge should get the funding, or the OC. There are medevac companies already operating, and I don't think there's a need for yet another.

[Flaps 1 Billion]

Good idea Brown Bear, push for the loss of more jobs.

[DHC-1 Jockey]

Good idea Brown Bear, push for the loss of more jobs.

+1

[ng78]

Good idea Brown Bear, push for the loss of more jobs.

Yup, especially jobs that will actually raise the bar - something us pilots can't count on in bad times like these.

[RVR6000]

I've heard g/s is commencing this month with sim training next month. This company comes in with solid equipment, great pay and benefits. And we have bunch of pilots whining and putting down the company. This is fcking pathetic. Give Orgne a chance it will set a new standard in medivac ops.

[Brown Bear]

I've heard g/s is commencing this month with sim training next month. This company comes in with solid equipment, great pay and benefits. And we have bunch of pilots whining and putting down the company. This is fcking pathetic. Give Orgne a chance it will set a new standard in medivac ops.

What company? Ornge is the government. Nobody seems to give a crap about the pilot jobs that will be lost due to Ornge even entering the game? If you people really think we need yet another player in the medevac business you're all on drugs.
"Raising the bar" my ass! It's your tax dollar out there competing with existing companies, and existing jobs. I sure as hell didn't give the Ontario Government my vote to spend two hundred and sixty million dollars of MY money......but I guess all you pussies did?

[ng78]

I've heard g/s is commencing this month with sim training next month. This company comes in with solid equipment, great pay and benefits. And we have bunch of pilots whining and putting down the company. This is fcking pathetic. Give Orgne a chance it will set a new standard in medivac ops.

What company? Ornge is the government. Nobody seems to give a crap about the pilot jobs that will be lost due to Ornge even entering the game? If you people really think we need yet another player in the medevac business you're all on drugs.
"Raising the bar" my ass! It's your tax dollar out there competing with existing companies, and existing jobs. I sure as hell didn't give the Ontario Government my vote to spend two hundred and sixty million dollars of MY money......but I guess all you pussies did?

Easy there Momma Bear. It is a valid point to say that Ornge is raising the bar for pilots in that pay is healthy for the PC-12 and the schedules seem to be fair. It's nice to see a "company" that will come in that is trying to lure in pilots with good pay and conditions, and if other companies have to raise their standards to compete that I'm not terribly concerned about it. Sorry, but you know very well that pilots starting out make ridiculously low levels of pay, and this would be a step in the right direction.

[Flaps 1 Billion]

There are many things that my tax dollars go to that I don't want them too, guess I'm a pussy then. However, I'd rather my tax dollars went to a company that created well paying jobs rather then seeing my tax dollars pushed out the door to contract companies that pay their pilots shitnuts and have them pay for their training. REgardless of who flys these flights, you're still paying for it.

[joe forty-sixpack]

[/quote]I'll be contacting my MPP this week, because I don't think Ornge should get the funding, or the OC[/quote]

[/quote]I be really surprised if Ornge ever gets off the ground[/quote]

Hmmm.

It’s time that we as pilots start being paid what we deserve at different levels of the industry. We (for the most part) are professionals and there’s no reason 24k a year for a PC12/208/whatever driver should be acceptable. If what it takes is for ORNGE to come into play and knock out some other companies in order to establish a higher standard for all of us then the ends certainly justify the means.

There have been downturns before, and what was the result that followed? Worse working conditions and we as a pilot group came out worse for wear until the next major “upturn”. This time it seems that a new standard is being made in a downturn, and one that will carry through to when times are “good” again. I think that is a positive thing.

[/quote]I sure as hell didn't give the Ontario Government my vote to spend two hundred and sixty million dollars of MY money......but I guess all you pussies did?[/quote]

As for taxpayers’ money, ask your fellow voters whether they would rather ride in a clapped out privately contracted ambulance to get to the hospital or if they’d want a new, decently maintained one. That’s exactly what we’re talking about here with the new PC12's, air AMBULANCE.

Compare apples to apples, not apples to ornges

[ng78]

It would be very interesting to see which system is more efficient - ORNGE doing it by themselves, or contracting out to private companies. And before somebody jumps on here and says governments are always less efficient, don't be so sure as there are lots of times when it's not the case.

[Brown Bear]

As for taxpayers’ money, ask your fellow voters whether they would rather ride in a clapped out privately contracted ambulance to get to the hospital or if they’d want a new, decently maintained one. That’s exactly what we’re talking about here with the new PC12's, air AMBULANCE.

Compare apples to apples, not apples to ornges

I'm all for that idea. Get right on it! I'll buy the stamps. BUT

Be sure to mention the nice new airplanes only have ONE ENGINE!

I'd also be curious as to who operates "clapped out" privately owned aircraft???? The ones I see around are in not bad shape. So, go ahead and name the companies who operate poorly maintained aircraft.

I see Thunder Airlines MU2's. They're old, true...but I've never seen one in poor shape. Have you? Even the Metro in YRL looks a hell of a lot better on one engine than any PC12 looks on none!

[Doc]

Of course, with the North American economy in the toilet, it makes perfect sense to spend many millions or dollars in Switzerland. Lets buy FK another Eurocopter.
Why not spend our tax dollar in Canada? Or at least the USA?
Are we sure Brian Mulroney has left the building?
Brown Bear brought up an interesting point. Who operates crap airplanes? MOH has always shied away from chartering the "better" companies (just my opinion on which company is "better", so don't get mad) and always gone with the lowest bidder.
Why not King Airs? No politicians sleeping with anybody from Raytheon?

[joe forty-sixpack]

MOH has always shied away from chartering the "better" companies (just my opinion on which company is "better", so don't get mad) and always gone with the lowest bidder.

That was my point.

[Doc]

MOH has always shied away from chartering the "better" companies (just my opinion on which company is "better", so don't get mad) and always gone with the lowest bidder.

That was my point.

So, now that they have milked the tax payers, that makes them Okay?
Not in my book. They've created all the "problems" themselves, now they want to ride in like the guy on the big white horse?
You still haven't addressed the "single engine" issue. Off you go and find ONE person who would rather ride a shiny new SINGLE, over an older TWIN......Well?

Keep in mind....nobody flies medevacs in piston twins. We're talking ONE PT6 vs. TWO....good luck with that.

[Eleveniron]

Some of you guys really kill me. A company employs a pile of employees when the industry is in the tank, offers it's employees fair wages and good benefits, buys and operates new, reliable equipment, provides a service to the province far better than what has ever been provided... and we're going to bash them for it?

Doc..just what Canadian-built aircraft did you have in mind that would be a suitable medivac machine?

[Eleveniron]

Of course, with the North American economy in the toilet, it makes perfect sense to spend many millions or dollars in Switzerland. Lets buy FK another Eurocopter.
Why not spend our tax dollar in Canada? Or at least the USA?
Are we sure Brian Mulroney has left the building?
Brown Bear brought up an interesting point. Who operates crap airplanes? MOH has always shied away from chartering the "better" companies (just my opinion on which company is "better", so don't get mad) and always gone with the lowest bidder.
Why not King Airs? No politicians sleeping with anybody from Raytheon?

From what I understand, "FK" did not sell Ornge the PC12s...they were bought factory direct.

[Doc]

From what I understand, "FK" did not sell Ornge the PC12s...they were bought factory direct.

So then, we can expect politicians to be sporting new Rolex watches and large amounts of chocolate bars.
And no, there are no Canadian medevac aircraft. There are however a few choices in the States. Twin engine choices. But our governments would rather do business in Europe. Lost my vote.

[RVR6000]

Air Bravo operates pc-12's for medevac, how come there is no issues with that. If thunder's mu-2 lost one engine on take-off it won't look pretty either.

I'm all for Ornge, its a direct hit to 'low'yageur.

[2R]

From what I understand, "FK" did not sell Ornge the PC12s...they were bought factory direct.

So then, we can expect politicians to be sporting new Rolex watches and large amounts of chocolate bars.
And no, there are no Canadian medevac aircraft. There are however a few choices in the States. Twin engine choices. But our governments would rather do business in Europe. Lost my vote.

Really ? Do you think any politicians where involved in these purchases? Can you name one?
Who signed the checks ?