Eleveniron wrote:
And no, there are no Canadian medevac aircraft. There are however a few choices in the States. Twin engine choices. But our governments would rather do business in Europe. Lost my vote.
Last time I checked, the United States are NOT part of Canada. I don't understand why you feel strongly about protecting American manufacturing over Europe. We should be just as friendly with Europe as we are with the US, and I'm glad some Canadians are smart enough to see that diversifying trading partners is a good thing.
The choice of aircraft should also have nothing to do with where it's built, but rather the best for the mission. I won't argue that perhaps it would be nice to have a King Air, but they are more expensive to operate as well. The PC-12 is a fine choice for the mission, and we should still be happy that Ornge is (hopefully) coming in and raising the bar for everybody.
Now back to the topic at hand - do we know if Ornge have found enough captains and F/O's to start up? I'm curious especially after the relatively recent job posting.
It really doesn't matter...If Ornge bought a fleet of King Airs the same conspiracy theorists would simply find fault in that too. You really don't think that the players at Ornge had all their ducks in a row when it came to choosing an aircraft...knowing that there would be certain individuals screaming foul as soon as they did something on their own? I certainly hope my sick ass gets hauled out of somewhere in a new PC12 rather than an MU2.
ng78 wrote:Now back to the topic at hand - do we know if Ornge have found enough captains and F/O's to start up? I'm curious especially after the relatively recent job posting.
Pretty sure the first group is in the middle of ground school now and headed to SimCom soon. Looks like they've staggered the hiring somewhat hence the recent ads.
If thunder's mu-2 lost one engine on take-off it won't look pretty either.
I have never flown an MU-2, is there a point in the take off where a MU-2 becomes uncontrollable or unflyable if it has an engine failure?
Ah, no.
The guys screaming the loudest for the PC12 have never had one go south. They just aren't like you and me, Cat. They're much wiser. They got past grade 6. They don't need no stinking engine. Truth is, the more PC12's you put up there, the sooner one will come down. I'll take the ride in the MU2, thanks.
I find it strange we haven't heard from a single new Ornge hire. I suspect Ornge has a gag order in affect? Either that, or there is just nobody that's actually been hired????
ng78 wrote:Now back to the topic at hand - do we know if Ornge have found enough captains and F/O's to start up? I'm curious especially after the relatively recent job posting.
Pretty sure the first group is in the middle of ground school now and headed to SimCom soon. Looks like they've staggered the hiring somewhat hence the recent ads.
Thanks Eleveniron. I believe these are just captains though, but I could be wrong.
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Last edited by ng78 on Sun May 03, 2009 8:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
If thunder's mu-2 lost one engine on take-off it won't look pretty either.
The guys screaming the loudest for the PC12 have never had one go south.
Exactly, thanks for pointing that out Doc. It's very rare for a PC-12 to "go south", versus of course the dismal safety record for the MU-2's. Finally we're getting somewhere!
Cat Driver, are you saying that an engine failure immediately after take off is the only emergency us pilots can ever face? Are you also denying that the PC-12 has a superior safety record to the MU-2?
I'm not qualified on the MU-2, but I imagine it could be flown on one engine after take-off. Now, can you take a stab at my questions smartypants, or do you have difficulty accepting the fact that a single-engine airplane can actually be statistically safer than a twin? Perhaps you did well in school up until the point in which they taught you how to read, but you didn't get very far when it came to critical thinking.
ng78, if you did your homework, you'd know that the MU2's poor record is the result of it being mainly flown by owner/operators. ie. Private pilots with big wallets. You will also find that when a FSA or equivalently trained crew is at the helm, the MU2's safety record is just fine and dandy.
You're afraid of the MU2, because it's "different".
The reasons the PC12 has a good record, is it's a modern design, the crews are properly trained, it hasn't had a tragic in flight engine failure...YET.
From what I've heard, Wasaya was pretty lucky there was a runway nearby, because that engine was on it's way out.
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Last edited by Brown Bear on Sun May 03, 2009 8:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
ng78 wrote:I'm not qualified on the MU-2, but I imagine it could be flown on one engine after take-off. Now, can you take a stab at my questions smartypants, or do you have difficulty accepting the fact that a single-engine airplane can actually be statistically safer than a twin? Perhaps you did well in school up until the point in which they taught you how to read, but you didn't get very far when it came to critical thinking.
You "imagine" it COULD be flown on one engine after takeoff......"
Gee, ya think? You're not sure though? Really? Sad.
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Last edited by Brown Bear on Sun May 03, 2009 8:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I'm no expert on the MU-2, but more than 10% of all MU-2's built have been involved in fatal crashes! Holy sh!t!!! I have a hard time believing that the majority of those were rich private owners, but I haven't researched that either. Perhaps that will be a good project for tomorrow
I'm not qualified on the MU-2, but I imagine it could be flown on one engine after take-off. Now, can you take a stab at my questions smartypants,
Smartypants? I ask you a question about the performance of an airplane and you call me smartypants?
or do you have difficulty accepting the fact that a single-engine airplane can actually be statistically safer than a twin?
I am aware of the statistics comparing single engine versus multi engine airplanes, I am also aware the causes of the accidents in most engine failures in twin engine airplanes were failure to control the airplane by not staying within the parimeters of the flight envelope the airplane was designed to fly within...better known as pilot error.
Perhaps you did well in school up until the point in which they taught you how to read, but you didn't get very far when it came to critical thinking.
Really? would you care to compare your background in flying with mine and then we can examine my ability in critical thinking?
Or better yet if you have some money to spare I am in the business of advanced flight training and maybe I could train you to fly a twin engine airplane without you losing control of it.
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The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
ng78, that and some were used for questionable operations. South America northbound, if you catch my drift. The airplane got a bit of an undeserved bad reputation. They do handle differently. If you and I were to lose an engine on one without understanding the differences, we'd roll it up in a ball. Hence the training.
But with equally trained crews, I'd ride on the MU2,over a PC12, every time. With ear plugs please.
Let's clear something up here - the MU-2's safety record is definitely tarnished due to poor pilot training. Unfortunately though, that will always be an issue that the industry needs to contend with, and lives will continue to be lost as a result. However, let's not vilify the PC-12 because frankly it does its job remarkably well and is an excellent aircraft for the role Ornge has chosen.
How to make a million dollars in aviation .Start with two hundred and sixty millions of taxpayers money
How many companies gave up trying to make money with the PC-12 ?
Hit your reasearch button and you will be suprised how much smart money got out of those airplane as soon as the bills outrun the revenue generated by a very expensive airplane.The fuel burn is the only low cost on the spread sheets i have seen .
I give Ornge two years before they put an order in for the 350's after all money is no object in the black hole of health care costs
Who came up with the idea of forcing pilots to come up with $10,000.00 cash to fly for an outfit that has millions of taxpayers dollars to fund the start up of a new air service?
Sounds like a real winner.
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The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
Yeah I'm not impressed at all. An organization like Ornge shouldn't have to use such tactics to keep pilots. All this does is that it validates the crappy outfits and their decision to have a cash up front bond. Shameful.
