Central Mountain Air
Moderators: North Shore, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako
Re: Central Mountain Air
What / where are you flying now pie?
No trees were harmed in the transmission of this message. However, a rather large number of electrons were temporarily inconvenienced.
-
iflyforpie
- Top Poster
- Posts: 8133
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:25 pm
- Location: Winterfell...
Re: Central Mountain Air
I'm flying and tinkering on some small Cessnas in the east Kootenays.
Geez did I say that....? Or just think it....?
Re: Central Mountain Air
They is usually a small trickle of hiring when ever big red hires guys. That being said, I don't think big red is doing much at the moment.
No trees were harmed in the transmission of this message. However, a rather large number of electrons were temporarily inconvenienced.
Re: Central Mountain Air
Isn't that a gum?Invertago wrote: I don't think big red is doing much at the moment.
Re: Central Mountain Air
Ya... its a gum... but no one is chewing it anymore so their corporate flight department might shut down.... ya smart ass 
No trees were harmed in the transmission of this message. However, a rather large number of electrons were temporarily inconvenienced.
-
Fife_Sound
- Rank 0
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Mon May 11, 2009 11:18 am
Re: Central Mountain Air
Quag Mire
Some clarification from an insider...... I've read the replies to your post and thought you'd like to know.
CMA is a great place to work, make no mistake. The company has issues (what company doesn't?) but the people, the airplane and the experience are great. Does the pay suck? Well, perhaps, but its all relative, to me anyway.
Regarding hiring. It does help if you know a pilot there, especially a Captain but a reputation for a solid work ethic and a couple of solid references are key. Especially now. I'm not so sure about the 1000 hour line in the sand......... If you have some PIC time (in anything), that certainly helps too. But CMA is not unlike all the other operators in the country; when the hiring starts again (hopefully the hiring isn't more than a year or two away), their minimum requirements change to reflect supply and demand.
The Ramp/CSA/Dispatch/Groomer Low Time Pilot Pool.............. I agree with some of the replies to this thread, if you can find work (in an airplane) elsewhere, think twice before turning it down, it may indeed be a long wait on the ramp before you're picked for a ground school. A couple of things to consider. First, there was a period where CMA wasn't taking anyone off of the low time list and they still couldn't keep up with attrition. The company has considerably fewer left seaters than right. When its all working well, they try take two low timers per ground school but you will appreciate that removing two (very experienced) dispatchers from head office in Smithers, might just turn out to be a difficult decision, just for the sake of adding two F/Os to the roster. Same goes for the guys on the ramp.
Basing......... Basically, you go where you're needed. You're less likely to go to Smithers (because that's where the senior folk work), and more likely, you'll go to Cow Town or maybe Vancouver. Once you have a line on the roster, you can start bidding for a base but it all comes down to pilots being hired and leaving CMA.
Conversely, the low time guys are fantastic to work with. They are exceptionally knowledgeable about the aircraft and they know the IFR world pretty darn well. And they can fly, some of them exceptionally well. Problem is, the low timers are truly stuck in the right seat for quite a long time, which is why I would suggest getting some PIC elsewhere, then giving CMA a try. The thing is, aviation is about as far removed from the 'Perfect World' as a vocation can get, but all of us here are in it for a reason. And being at CMA aint so bad.
Because the pay is a shade lighter than other companies, pilots sometimes have to have second jobs when they work for CMA. Its a fact of life. But as much as people might sound off about the pay, they still want to work for the company because they know its valuable ink in the log book. And the low time list continues to be filled in when somebody gets the call for training. I guess thats a theme which is all to common to many a thread on this web-site: sacrifice. I still ask myself why I do it? Well, maybe its because there is a glimmer of hope for WJ or AC to call but in the end, we're all in a pretty good place, especially now and really, it doesn't matter if the Bigs call, there are other opportunities out there. We just think our chances are better at CMA. Who knows?
Even though the flavour doesn't last as long, I prefer Beaman's gum to Big Red..................... Its not just Big Red that hires CMA people. WJ took a large number of CMA Captains last year and hopefully that'll continue in the future. (And Jazz took quite a few we well, including a large chunk of F/Os). I think that CMA is a great place to be and hopefully it'll continue to look attractive on a resume. You get Level D sim time (an incredible experience), the training is incredible (and demanding), the people are great, the airplane is amazing, the maintenance is top notch, and the schedule (while it may contain one or two days more per month than we'd like) is really quite relaxed. (Unless you're based in Calgary, where you'll pretty much average 1000 hours a year).
Sorry for the Gale Force long winded message. Hope it helps.
Some clarification from an insider...... I've read the replies to your post and thought you'd like to know.
CMA is a great place to work, make no mistake. The company has issues (what company doesn't?) but the people, the airplane and the experience are great. Does the pay suck? Well, perhaps, but its all relative, to me anyway.
Regarding hiring. It does help if you know a pilot there, especially a Captain but a reputation for a solid work ethic and a couple of solid references are key. Especially now. I'm not so sure about the 1000 hour line in the sand......... If you have some PIC time (in anything), that certainly helps too. But CMA is not unlike all the other operators in the country; when the hiring starts again (hopefully the hiring isn't more than a year or two away), their minimum requirements change to reflect supply and demand.
The Ramp/CSA/Dispatch/Groomer Low Time Pilot Pool.............. I agree with some of the replies to this thread, if you can find work (in an airplane) elsewhere, think twice before turning it down, it may indeed be a long wait on the ramp before you're picked for a ground school. A couple of things to consider. First, there was a period where CMA wasn't taking anyone off of the low time list and they still couldn't keep up with attrition. The company has considerably fewer left seaters than right. When its all working well, they try take two low timers per ground school but you will appreciate that removing two (very experienced) dispatchers from head office in Smithers, might just turn out to be a difficult decision, just for the sake of adding two F/Os to the roster. Same goes for the guys on the ramp.
Basing......... Basically, you go where you're needed. You're less likely to go to Smithers (because that's where the senior folk work), and more likely, you'll go to Cow Town or maybe Vancouver. Once you have a line on the roster, you can start bidding for a base but it all comes down to pilots being hired and leaving CMA.
Conversely, the low time guys are fantastic to work with. They are exceptionally knowledgeable about the aircraft and they know the IFR world pretty darn well. And they can fly, some of them exceptionally well. Problem is, the low timers are truly stuck in the right seat for quite a long time, which is why I would suggest getting some PIC elsewhere, then giving CMA a try. The thing is, aviation is about as far removed from the 'Perfect World' as a vocation can get, but all of us here are in it for a reason. And being at CMA aint so bad.
Because the pay is a shade lighter than other companies, pilots sometimes have to have second jobs when they work for CMA. Its a fact of life. But as much as people might sound off about the pay, they still want to work for the company because they know its valuable ink in the log book. And the low time list continues to be filled in when somebody gets the call for training. I guess thats a theme which is all to common to many a thread on this web-site: sacrifice. I still ask myself why I do it? Well, maybe its because there is a glimmer of hope for WJ or AC to call but in the end, we're all in a pretty good place, especially now and really, it doesn't matter if the Bigs call, there are other opportunities out there. We just think our chances are better at CMA. Who knows?
Even though the flavour doesn't last as long, I prefer Beaman's gum to Big Red..................... Its not just Big Red that hires CMA people. WJ took a large number of CMA Captains last year and hopefully that'll continue in the future. (And Jazz took quite a few we well, including a large chunk of F/Os). I think that CMA is a great place to be and hopefully it'll continue to look attractive on a resume. You get Level D sim time (an incredible experience), the training is incredible (and demanding), the people are great, the airplane is amazing, the maintenance is top notch, and the schedule (while it may contain one or two days more per month than we'd like) is really quite relaxed. (Unless you're based in Calgary, where you'll pretty much average 1000 hours a year).
Sorry for the Gale Force long winded message. Hope it helps.
Re: Central Mountain Air
Thanks for the post Fife, those of us from the outside appriciate the info. Helps to know what is out there.
No trees were harmed in the transmission of this message. However, a rather large number of electrons were temporarily inconvenienced.
Re: Central Mountain Air
Great Post Fife
Could you tell me if there is a need for direct entry Captains soon and what type of requirements are being sought.
Shagger
Could you tell me if there is a need for direct entry Captains soon and what type of requirements are being sought.
Shagger
-
Fife_Sound
- Rank 0
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Mon May 11, 2009 11:18 am
Re: Central Mountain Air
Shagger
Sorry for not getting back to you sooner.
The hiring has pretty much come to a halt at CMA. When the rest of the industry starts moving again, I'm sure there'll be quite a bit of movement. Folks are pretty tight lipped about jumping ship but I know a few who are quite anxious for Westjet to call. I think they're pretty well full up on Captains at the moment, even here in Calgary and I think there'll be a few guys ready to upgrade in the next few months.
The direct entry left seat thing isn't always clear. Again it depends on supply and demand but I think the guys that came in the last year all had at least 500 multi pic or more and some turbine time to boot.
A note of caution though...........
There have been quite a few people who haven't made it through the training for whatever reason. If you're close to whatever requirements they're asking for its a good to consider that you'll likely want to (or have to) spend some time in the right seat. They could left seat PPC you but seeing how things work from the right seat is a good way to gain some experience.
Anyway, hope this helps.
Sorry for not getting back to you sooner.
The hiring has pretty much come to a halt at CMA. When the rest of the industry starts moving again, I'm sure there'll be quite a bit of movement. Folks are pretty tight lipped about jumping ship but I know a few who are quite anxious for Westjet to call. I think they're pretty well full up on Captains at the moment, even here in Calgary and I think there'll be a few guys ready to upgrade in the next few months.
The direct entry left seat thing isn't always clear. Again it depends on supply and demand but I think the guys that came in the last year all had at least 500 multi pic or more and some turbine time to boot.
A note of caution though...........
There have been quite a few people who haven't made it through the training for whatever reason. If you're close to whatever requirements they're asking for its a good to consider that you'll likely want to (or have to) spend some time in the right seat. They could left seat PPC you but seeing how things work from the right seat is a good way to gain some experience.
Anyway, hope this helps.
Re: Central Mountain Air
Just looking for any updated info for CMA as I am very near the end of my training and want to apply at CMA. How many people on the list right now? Any movement from WJ's new hiring? This low time pool of theirs, is there a minimum hours or can I apply with 205 hours as long as I have my multi, IFR and IATRA?
Thanks
Thanks
Re: Central Mountain Air
Their website answers all of their minimums in their own words. As for WJ and movement, I don't know if WJ hired any of the CMA guys this round. Also, at 205hrs, its a ramp job.100LL81 wrote:Just looking for any updated info for CMA as I am very near the end of my training and want to apply at CMA. How many people on the list right now? Any movement from WJ's new hiring? This low time pool of theirs, is there a minimum hours or can I apply with 205 hours as long as I have my multi, IFR and IATRA?
Thanks
No trees were harmed in the transmission of this message. However, a rather large number of electrons were temporarily inconvenienced.
-
300_hour_wonder
- Rank 1
- Posts: 35
- Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2006 10:21 am
- Location: YYC
Re: Central Mountain Air
we have had at least one hired at westjet and I'm sure there are a couple more coming soon
low time pool as said on the website is group 1 ifr, cpl, iatra
its not the shortest ramp wait by any means but i think its a pretty good gig.
PS i could be wrong (it has happened before) but i belive in order to actaully have a valid iatra you need 250 hours but you only need 180 hours to write or somthing along those lines
low time pool as said on the website is group 1 ifr, cpl, iatra
its not the shortest ramp wait by any means but i think its a pretty good gig.
PS i could be wrong (it has happened before) but i belive in order to actaully have a valid iatra you need 250 hours but you only need 180 hours to write or somthing along those lines
Re: Central Mountain Air
Thanks guys, I do know that with low hours I can only expect the ramp. I have no issues with this at all, I was just curious if there was minimum like 250 or 300. It does not say on the website, just says low time pool. Obviously everyone that meets their mins would have at least 200 hours. Thanks again, hope to see you on the ramp soon.
Re: Central Mountain Air
Yeah the ramp gig requires a valid IATRA, and you can write that pre-250, but it becomes valid at 250.
As for the wait on the ramp, as a few have mentioned, things have slowed in the past couple years. It used to be 2 per gs and now it's back to 1, and I believe the current number 1 guy in the list is well over 2 years. Having said that, once you've paid your dues it is as good a start as you could ask for in this industry. Pay is low (if you're not used to that, get out of aviation) but maintenance is top notch, training is excellent (level D annually) and schedules are fair (19 days a month, seniority bidding system, between 50 - 90 hours per month, choices between day pairings, overnights, stand-ups and reserve). Pilot group is a great bunch to work with.
As some have alluded to, going right seat with 250 has it's drawbacks; you will be stuck til you have an ATPL which will be just shy of 3000. On the other hand when you get there you will have a log book full of multi turbine time. Also seniority carries over from FO to Capt so that's a small reward for the wait. Company is very pleased with the low time program - I have been told (by management) that it produces the best pilots they have, and the majority of pilot problems they have are the result of higher-time guys with bad habits/attitudes. Learning to fly a 1900 is NOT rocket science, and more 3000 hour candidates (many with multi turbine time) wash out in initial training than low-timers.
The 1000 hour line is a hard one, however a note of caution about pushing for 1000 hours to skip the ramp line - once you do have 1000+, your resume goes in the direct right seat pile (and it's a big pile). Don't count on the phone call for a while. In the last couple years the average call-back time was in the 2500 - 3500 neighborhood (with a solid internal reference).
If you want to work at CMA my advice is this: join the ramp line if you're willing to wait, if not, or you have over 1000, look elsewhere til you have over 2000, otherwise you are most likely wasting your time.
As for the wait on the ramp, as a few have mentioned, things have slowed in the past couple years. It used to be 2 per gs and now it's back to 1, and I believe the current number 1 guy in the list is well over 2 years. Having said that, once you've paid your dues it is as good a start as you could ask for in this industry. Pay is low (if you're not used to that, get out of aviation) but maintenance is top notch, training is excellent (level D annually) and schedules are fair (19 days a month, seniority bidding system, between 50 - 90 hours per month, choices between day pairings, overnights, stand-ups and reserve). Pilot group is a great bunch to work with.
As some have alluded to, going right seat with 250 has it's drawbacks; you will be stuck til you have an ATPL which will be just shy of 3000. On the other hand when you get there you will have a log book full of multi turbine time. Also seniority carries over from FO to Capt so that's a small reward for the wait. Company is very pleased with the low time program - I have been told (by management) that it produces the best pilots they have, and the majority of pilot problems they have are the result of higher-time guys with bad habits/attitudes. Learning to fly a 1900 is NOT rocket science, and more 3000 hour candidates (many with multi turbine time) wash out in initial training than low-timers.
The 1000 hour line is a hard one, however a note of caution about pushing for 1000 hours to skip the ramp line - once you do have 1000+, your resume goes in the direct right seat pile (and it's a big pile). Don't count on the phone call for a while. In the last couple years the average call-back time was in the 2500 - 3500 neighborhood (with a solid internal reference).
If you want to work at CMA my advice is this: join the ramp line if you're willing to wait, if not, or you have over 1000, look elsewhere til you have over 2000, otherwise you are most likely wasting your time.
-
kilocharliemike
- Rank 3
- Posts: 192
- Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2006 12:47 am
- Location: EI
Re: Central Mountain Air
I have a question about this low time program. As far as I understand, IATRA is valid for 2 years unless you get typed. If the wait is minimum 2 years on the ramp, and you need IATRA to get hired in the first place. Is it safe to say most guys will have to rewrite the exam at least once? I know its a fairly easy exam, but why do you need it for entry if they tell you you wont get typed during its validity anyway? Just wondering.
KCM
KCM
Re: Central Mountain Air
This is a good question, and it was never an issue since the wait hasn't been over 2 years until recently. Nowadays, yes most guys have to rewrite. On the upside it is a good refresher after 2 years of not flying and it is a free exam to write.
From what I have heard management is not happy about the current 2 year wait; look for them to start taking 2 guys per gs again to get the line moving. (so I've been told)
A quick side note about the 2 year wait and not being current when the time comes - unless your previous experience was on a King Air or something similar chances are most low timers only have piston time. When a low timer finally does go for training, the transition to flying a 1900 will be such a stretch from flying a 172 or even dutchess that recent experience in a small plane will not count for much. Rather than spending effort and money (unless you have a side gig flying for $) on flying an actual small airplane, I would highly recommend spending time in a simulator on a king air or similar. Flying the 1900 (or anything similar - king air, metro, jetstream etc) is not difficult. It's the speed that everything happens at that is hard to adjust to. If you can get used to being ahead of the airplane in a sim, it will do wonders for your transition to a real turbine aircraft.
From what I have heard management is not happy about the current 2 year wait; look for them to start taking 2 guys per gs again to get the line moving. (so I've been told)
A quick side note about the 2 year wait and not being current when the time comes - unless your previous experience was on a King Air or something similar chances are most low timers only have piston time. When a low timer finally does go for training, the transition to flying a 1900 will be such a stretch from flying a 172 or even dutchess that recent experience in a small plane will not count for much. Rather than spending effort and money (unless you have a side gig flying for $) on flying an actual small airplane, I would highly recommend spending time in a simulator on a king air or similar. Flying the 1900 (or anything similar - king air, metro, jetstream etc) is not difficult. It's the speed that everything happens at that is hard to adjust to. If you can get used to being ahead of the airplane in a sim, it will do wonders for your transition to a real turbine aircraft.
Re: Central Mountain Air
Fife_Sound wrote:
Basing......... Basically, you go where you're needed. You're less likely to go to Smithers (because that's where the senior folk work), and more likely, you'll go to Cow Town or maybe Vancouver. Once you have a line on the roster, you can start bidding for a base but it all comes down to pilots being hired and leaving CMA.
So how hard is it to get Prince George?
Re: Central Mountain Air
does that mean you move laterally in pay as in if you were an f/o for 3 years and get Capt you go to a year 3 capt pay?aV1aTOr wrote: Also seniority carries over from FO to Capt so that's a small reward for the wait.
-
wesleysnipes85
- Rank 0
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Mon May 23, 2011 4:32 pm
Re: Central Mountain Air
Does anyone have any interview questions for CMA? What is the interview like?
-
David Hasselhoff
- Rank 2
- Posts: 74
- Joined: Sun Nov 26, 2006 4:46 pm
- Location: The Greasy Part of the Oil-patch, AB
Re: Central Mountain Air
wesleysnipes85 wrote:Does anyone have any interview questions for CMA? What is the interview like?
Harder than the one for Air Canada or Jazz.
It's 2-3 person board with a bit of good cop/ bad cop.
DAVID HASSELHOFF IS THE ANTI-CHRIST.
http://www.esquilax.com/baywatch/
I'm really big in Germany......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJQVlVHsFF8
http://www.esquilax.com/baywatch/
I'm really big in Germany......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJQVlVHsFF8
-
airborne121
- Rank 0
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Wed May 11, 2011 8:01 pm
Re: Central Mountain Air
Hi there. Few questions for anyone at CMA. Just curious, how many 1000 hour guys truly get on with CMA direct entry f/o? Or is it mostly 1500+ hours? Being the same company, do CMA and Northern Thunderbird crews fly with each other? I know they are under the same ownership (I believe). Which company offers the better schedule, pay and flying? Or is it all the same. Also is there any animosity between companies? I'd like to fly the 1900 and I know CMA (of course) and NT both operate the Beech. I know Pasco does as well but I don't think they'll take me with no PIC time.
-
Les Habitants
- Rank 4
- Posts: 226
- Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2010 6:15 pm
Re: Central Mountain Air
Did you even read this thread?airborne121 wrote:Hi there. Few questions for anyone at CMA. Just curious, how many 1000 hour guys truly get on with CMA direct entry f/o?
-
flying4dollars
- Rank (9)
- Posts: 1428
- Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 8:56 am
Re: Central Mountain Air
Is his question not a valid? Seems to be. A company posts it's minimums for direct entry hires. How many of those successful applicants had exactly what was posted? Sounds like a fair question to me.Les Habitants wrote:Did you even read this thread?airborne121 wrote:Hi there. Few questions for anyone at CMA. Just curious, how many 1000 hour guys truly get on with CMA direct entry f/o?
-
Les Habitants
- Rank 4
- Posts: 226
- Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2010 6:15 pm
Re: Central Mountain Air
flying4dollars wrote:Is his question not a valid? Seems to be. A company posts it's minimums for direct entry hires. How many of those successful applicants had exactly what was posted? Sounds like a fair question to me.Les Habitants wrote:Did you even read this thread?airborne121 wrote:Hi there. Few questions for anyone at CMA. Just curious, how many 1000 hour guys truly get on with CMA direct entry f/o?
aV1aTOr wrote:The 1000 hour line is a hard one, however a note of caution about pushing for 1000 hours to skip the ramp line - once you do have 1000+, your resume goes in the direct right seat pile (and it's a big pile). Don't count on the phone call for a while. In the last couple years the average call-back time was in the 2500 - 3500 neighborhood (with a solid internal reference).
