Similar stories to everyone else. I made more on the outside opf aviation, but I never made min. wage or anything remotely as low as that or what a lot of entry level canadian ops pay while actually flying.
There are some DECENT operations out there that take low timers and give them a shot, but it seems people like to F*kk them over and they quite quickly become jaded and apprehensive about hiring and it pooches it for the rest of us.
Be of good moral fibre, solid work ethic and stand up for yourself when it comes to living conditions and wages. If we as a pilot group can hammer this into the new and up and comers as well as anyone that needs it, perhaps we can turn the industry just even slightly towards a better path.
"Poorly Paid, Often Tired, Junior Pilots"
Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore, I WAS Birddog
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Shiny Side Up
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Re: "Poorly Paid, Often Tired, Junior Pilots"
One of my big grievances with the world is why don't we teach people what the world of work is like, so everyone with a high school education is prepared when they get tossed into the world of work. Its a seriously flawed set up, nevermind just in the world of aviation, but for everyone.The argument that a teenager or early 20 something with stars in their eyes about a career in aviation should have "known what it was like" is flawed on so many levels, and from what I can see, usually only trotted out by those have "sucked it up" in their own careers and worked in sub-standard conditions for substandard wages for far too long. Like that's some kind of merit badge.
I had to learn the hard way what my rights as a worker were, it was a real wake up for life having a close call and realising that the pay wasn't worth the risk. Our unfortunate pair in the opening post article didn't get a chance to learn it. Some fools out there never learn it, and still too many die in the process. Aviation, like the rest of the world of work, is in many cases extrordinarily unforgiving of any lapses in judgement or ability.
We can't stop here! This is BAT country!
Re: "Poorly Paid, Often Tired, Junior Pilots"
Simple supply and demand
As long as the supply of pilots exceeds the demands of the industry we will always have our "BigMacs" in the industry willing to cut another pilots throat for a job.
Flight schools are turning out CPLs as quickly as GM is turning out shit cars.
TC is handing out CPLs like free samples at the supermarket.
What we need is a freeze in the issuing of new CPLs until the system can absorb the over flow, this should take a few years. Then only issue the same number of CPLs a year as the industry requires, ie you deregister your licence when you retire, but you keep your privlages.
If we cut down the supply of pilots the desire to work in the poor conditions will be reduced.
All we would need is a system to determine who gets the limited number of CPLs a year, say maybe a mentor system/job already lined up, operators decide who moves up.
Just a thought
Lurch
As long as the supply of pilots exceeds the demands of the industry we will always have our "BigMacs" in the industry willing to cut another pilots throat for a job.
Flight schools are turning out CPLs as quickly as GM is turning out shit cars.
TC is handing out CPLs like free samples at the supermarket.
What we need is a freeze in the issuing of new CPLs until the system can absorb the over flow, this should take a few years. Then only issue the same number of CPLs a year as the industry requires, ie you deregister your licence when you retire, but you keep your privlages.
If we cut down the supply of pilots the desire to work in the poor conditions will be reduced.
All we would need is a system to determine who gets the limited number of CPLs a year, say maybe a mentor system/job already lined up, operators decide who moves up.
Just a thought
Lurch
Take my love
Take my land
Take me where I cannot stand
I don't care
I'm still free
You cannot take the sky from me
Take my land
Take me where I cannot stand
I don't care
I'm still free
You cannot take the sky from me
Re: "Poorly Paid, Often Tired, Junior Pilots"
That is a good idea Lurch.
Crappy thing is that it would bankrupt all the flight schools - those guys are barely hanging on as it is and it would not be right to bankrupt them after all the blood, sweat and TC BS they have put up with.
IMHO.
Crappy thing is that it would bankrupt all the flight schools - those guys are barely hanging on as it is and it would not be right to bankrupt them after all the blood, sweat and TC BS they have put up with.
IMHO.
Re: "Poorly Paid, Often Tired, Junior Pilots"
That would be a great idea, Lurch.. if we lived in Soviet Russia. I see, as always, most people missed the point. I like my job. I don't get paid great, but I also don't get paid poorly. I left a job because they changed the wage structure and I didn't agree with it. What I'm saying is you can't write an article saying pilots need to get paid more and expect it to happen. Yes, I think they should. No, I don't think it's going to happen. Competition leads to small profit margins and small profit margins lead to small paychecks. This is a highly sought after career and hell, a monkey went into space. We can all fly a plane. You're not Yeager. You're not special. We all do it every day and most of us do it safely. That makes you exactly like the 300 other people waiting in line behind you for your job. The guy/gal who tests your water every day gets paid crap, too. If he screws up, he takes people with him/her, too. This is how it is, get over it. You don't like your wage, I agree, find another job. If you can.
Re: "Poorly Paid, Often Tired, Junior Pilots"
Maybe we have too many flight schools?
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sky's the limit
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Re: "Poorly Paid, Often Tired, Junior Pilots"
So, let me get this straight.
Going off most threads on Avcanada, it seems pretty clear most of you hate taxes, have bought into the American idea of "small Government," dislike protectionism that won't let you work where you want when you want, totally agree with free-market economics (whether you realize it or not), and yet you want the Government to step in and stop people from getting pilot's licenses so you don't actually have to make a stand for yourselves by demanding fair working conditions and pay, but hope to achieve those conditions through the denial of the freedom of choice to those who follow you?
I see.
stl
Going off most threads on Avcanada, it seems pretty clear most of you hate taxes, have bought into the American idea of "small Government," dislike protectionism that won't let you work where you want when you want, totally agree with free-market economics (whether you realize it or not), and yet you want the Government to step in and stop people from getting pilot's licenses so you don't actually have to make a stand for yourselves by demanding fair working conditions and pay, but hope to achieve those conditions through the denial of the freedom of choice to those who follow you?
I see.
stl
Re: "Poorly Paid, Often Tired, Junior Pilots"
I have a idea, why don't we get rid of government subsidized flight programs. Government should subsidize employment area's that the country is lacking in qualified applicants, not spend millions of tax payers money on running puppy mills across the country. How many hundreds of students each year get their training pay for, how do you think this effects the standard of employment in the aviation industry.
Re: "Poorly Paid, Often Tired, Junior Pilots"
Interesting thread, I went on record about 4 or 5 years ago with a statement to the effect that incidents and accidents in this industry were going to see a steep and rapid increase over the coming years. Due in part to the “race for the top” by the air carrier and pilots alike, which was ultimately going to water down the experience levels.
One need not travel back too far in time to find an industry that was pretty exclusive; it was geared to the wealthy traveler. The marketplace consisted of a handful of national airlines with high time, experienced crews behind the controls. The military was the primary recruiting grounds, in part because they didn’t have hundreds or perhaps thousands of commuter and charter operations to draft from.
The “badge of honor” system that is prevalent in Canada today didn’t exist or at least not on the scale that it is today. The direct entry pilots that did get hired spent years in the 2nd or 3rd seat before advancement in his rank or equipment occurred. Today an attitude best described as entitlement is all too commonly found in the crew rooms, cockpits and on aviation web forums.
I’m not an economist but you don’t need to be one to realize that a great deal of pressure has been placed on the industry by the consumer for low cost travel. In the 60’s and 70’s you didn’t have the selection of carriers or the number of daily flights from A to B that you do today, and forget flying from A to C, D or E those routes didn’t exist. The flight crews were almost treated like gods, the pay compared to work schedule was off the charts and clearly they were pampered.
The airlines of the day didn’t own hundreds of multi-million dollar jets and have billions in infrastructure costs coming out of their ying yang. The airports and government agencies of the day weren’t reaching into their pockets at every opportunity; clearly it was a very different environment. At some point it changed from a method of faster travel to business. The idea that it was more than simply a faster or more exclusive way to travel started us down the road to today. The all too common business practice of doing it cheaper than the next guy in an effort to capture market share to make profit pushed its way to the forefront. Bigger jets to put more warm flesh in the seats equaled reduced costs. Soon the race was on; more players entered the arena to make a buck. Each had a new cost saving measure to enable them to sell their seats cheaper than the competition, all in an effort to capture that elusive market share to maintain profit. It was only a matter of time, its business. Business practices dictated that other efficiencies needed to be found beyond bigger aircraft, which started the demise of the god complex. More work, same pay…which eventually lead to more work less pay. In order to survive in today’s environment it seems to be all about finding the lowest possible costs in all areas.
The industry has changed a great deal, but the mindset of a great many has stayed in the past. They look at the past and complain they are getting screwed but they only see the old pay scales, minimal days of work, and perks that can’t compete with today’s low cost models.
Suddenly the alarm bells are ringing, pilots are commuting cross country and fatigued when they arrive for work! They can’t afford hotels etc. Whose fault is it? Those with the entitlement attitude say it’s the airlines, they should be paying more money and they should be paying for the hotels and because they had to commute on their day off they should be paid when commuting as well. Frankly, they are clinging to a lifestyle and job that with few exceptions is extinct. If the job is located in city A and you choose to live in city B name any other industry that pays the employee to come to work? Does anybody on this forum live in Orillia but work in Mississauga? Does your employer pay you to drive to work? How about Montreal, you live in Montreal and work in Mississauga. Should the employer adjust you work schedule so that you receive 10 hours of rest in hotel before you start your shift? Should they have to pay for the hotel room and also your salary for the commuting time you needed? why?
I know people that are well paid and commute yet will wait until the very last second before they position to work. They arrive just in time, with little or no rest just to save $75.00 or actually pocket the expenses they claim but don’t use. I’ve encountered well paid pilots that will go hungry or pick thought half eaten commissary all in an effort to pocket the $50.00 or $60.00 dollars in perdiems. Its mind boggling…the fingers are getting pointed at the airlines, I don’t think its quit that simple.
End of rant, flame on!
One need not travel back too far in time to find an industry that was pretty exclusive; it was geared to the wealthy traveler. The marketplace consisted of a handful of national airlines with high time, experienced crews behind the controls. The military was the primary recruiting grounds, in part because they didn’t have hundreds or perhaps thousands of commuter and charter operations to draft from.
The “badge of honor” system that is prevalent in Canada today didn’t exist or at least not on the scale that it is today. The direct entry pilots that did get hired spent years in the 2nd or 3rd seat before advancement in his rank or equipment occurred. Today an attitude best described as entitlement is all too commonly found in the crew rooms, cockpits and on aviation web forums.
I’m not an economist but you don’t need to be one to realize that a great deal of pressure has been placed on the industry by the consumer for low cost travel. In the 60’s and 70’s you didn’t have the selection of carriers or the number of daily flights from A to B that you do today, and forget flying from A to C, D or E those routes didn’t exist. The flight crews were almost treated like gods, the pay compared to work schedule was off the charts and clearly they were pampered.
The airlines of the day didn’t own hundreds of multi-million dollar jets and have billions in infrastructure costs coming out of their ying yang. The airports and government agencies of the day weren’t reaching into their pockets at every opportunity; clearly it was a very different environment. At some point it changed from a method of faster travel to business. The idea that it was more than simply a faster or more exclusive way to travel started us down the road to today. The all too common business practice of doing it cheaper than the next guy in an effort to capture market share to make profit pushed its way to the forefront. Bigger jets to put more warm flesh in the seats equaled reduced costs. Soon the race was on; more players entered the arena to make a buck. Each had a new cost saving measure to enable them to sell their seats cheaper than the competition, all in an effort to capture that elusive market share to maintain profit. It was only a matter of time, its business. Business practices dictated that other efficiencies needed to be found beyond bigger aircraft, which started the demise of the god complex. More work, same pay…which eventually lead to more work less pay. In order to survive in today’s environment it seems to be all about finding the lowest possible costs in all areas.
The industry has changed a great deal, but the mindset of a great many has stayed in the past. They look at the past and complain they are getting screwed but they only see the old pay scales, minimal days of work, and perks that can’t compete with today’s low cost models.
Suddenly the alarm bells are ringing, pilots are commuting cross country and fatigued when they arrive for work! They can’t afford hotels etc. Whose fault is it? Those with the entitlement attitude say it’s the airlines, they should be paying more money and they should be paying for the hotels and because they had to commute on their day off they should be paid when commuting as well. Frankly, they are clinging to a lifestyle and job that with few exceptions is extinct. If the job is located in city A and you choose to live in city B name any other industry that pays the employee to come to work? Does anybody on this forum live in Orillia but work in Mississauga? Does your employer pay you to drive to work? How about Montreal, you live in Montreal and work in Mississauga. Should the employer adjust you work schedule so that you receive 10 hours of rest in hotel before you start your shift? Should they have to pay for the hotel room and also your salary for the commuting time you needed? why?
I know people that are well paid and commute yet will wait until the very last second before they position to work. They arrive just in time, with little or no rest just to save $75.00 or actually pocket the expenses they claim but don’t use. I’ve encountered well paid pilots that will go hungry or pick thought half eaten commissary all in an effort to pocket the $50.00 or $60.00 dollars in perdiems. Its mind boggling…the fingers are getting pointed at the airlines, I don’t think its quit that simple.
End of rant, flame on!
Re: "Poorly Paid, Often Tired, Junior Pilots"
Time to spread the word....aviation in now the least desirable career to get into in North Amercia...I stress the word "Career"...and dont tell me/give the McDonalds or Tim Hortons speach either...those jobs are not proffessional careers where you are responsible for lives and a million dollar piece of machinery...the jokes over...
Re: "Poorly Paid, Often Tired, Junior Pilots"
They already do:BigMac wrote:50 years from now the airplanes will be flying themselves.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kHa3WNerjU
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Panama Jack
- Rank 11
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- Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2004 8:10 am
- Location: Back here
Re: "Poorly Paid, Often Tired, Junior Pilots"
Was just in Central America last week and had a great chat with some of my Central American colleagues about this phenomenon.
Where-ever you go, it is the same story, only the payscales differ by economy. Why would a teen in Nicaragua go and invest $30-40K to get a Commercial, Multi-IFR rating in the USA, to return to Central America and get a right seat job in a Caravan earning $500 USD or less a month? For the same reason that a kid in Canada would do the same and earn $1200 a month throwing bags somewhere up north. It is with the hopes of building enough time, moving onto larger airplanes, and maybe working somewhere else (lets face it, for Canadians and Central Americans, the pilots jobs with desireable T's & C's are more often than not "overseas").
All of this is great when there is high turn over. It starts to suck though when the recession hits and everybody scrambles to hold onto his job-- even worse when guys with tons of A320 experience are hoping to at least get a job flying a Caravan.
And it is during emergencies that we start to appreciate that paying somebody less than $20 a day, who you depend on for your safety, is perhaps . . . not enough.
However, in the post-Deregulation Airline environment, the economics have become a free for all and so has the environment. Low-Cost and Regional Airlines have been the major beneficiaries of this-- taking advantage of the willingness of people to do a job, for less pay, either with the hopes of moving up, or because they are attracted to the perceived glamor of the industry, or because they have run out of options.
It is hard to blame the operators also. After all, the business of Business is business.
Where-ever you go, it is the same story, only the payscales differ by economy. Why would a teen in Nicaragua go and invest $30-40K to get a Commercial, Multi-IFR rating in the USA, to return to Central America and get a right seat job in a Caravan earning $500 USD or less a month? For the same reason that a kid in Canada would do the same and earn $1200 a month throwing bags somewhere up north. It is with the hopes of building enough time, moving onto larger airplanes, and maybe working somewhere else (lets face it, for Canadians and Central Americans, the pilots jobs with desireable T's & C's are more often than not "overseas").
All of this is great when there is high turn over. It starts to suck though when the recession hits and everybody scrambles to hold onto his job-- even worse when guys with tons of A320 experience are hoping to at least get a job flying a Caravan.
And it is during emergencies that we start to appreciate that paying somebody less than $20 a day, who you depend on for your safety, is perhaps . . . not enough.
However, in the post-Deregulation Airline environment, the economics have become a free for all and so has the environment. Low-Cost and Regional Airlines have been the major beneficiaries of this-- taking advantage of the willingness of people to do a job, for less pay, either with the hopes of moving up, or because they are attracted to the perceived glamor of the industry, or because they have run out of options.
It is hard to blame the operators also. After all, the business of Business is business.
“If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. If it stops moving, subsidize it.”
-President Ronald Reagan
-President Ronald Reagan
Re: "Poorly Paid, Often Tired, Junior Pilots"
I have turned multiple jobs because of this, turned one down yesterday it was a flying position and currently I work the ramp at pearson with no hope of getting to a plane. However I wasn't willing to move to a reserve for 1500 a month and sign a bond to fly a piston single. I will keep turning down jobs until I get an offer of a decent wage. I don't need to live in the south or a big city. I have made the move before to a northern community. I did it for a decent wage and no bond, accomodations provided etc. Unfortunately it didn't work out for unforseen circumstances. Grow a pair people I can't change this shit myself.The ONLY thing we have going for us is the people who are willing to say "F it, that offer sucks," and go somewhere else or look at alternative careers.
Re: "Poorly Paid, Often Tired, Junior Pilots"
OK, GGGQ, while I admire your conviction, I have to question you decission to "turn down multiple jobs".
As much as it sucks, your a pilot with no experience, throwing bags in YYZ, and if someone hasn't told you, your NOT going to get a great job demanding good money and sched. Especially now in the current economy.
Get some hours and move on to bigger and better.
I'm no advocate of the current job market and hiring practices (I've never signed a bond, worked for free, and have left a few jobs for more money/better working conditions) but it's time to get realistic.
If you want to be a pilot, you will most likely need to "go a reserve" and start at the bottom.
Make change from the top not the bottom. You can still go to a "crappy company" and make positive change; refeuse dangerous trips, overlaoding, bad weather, breaking duty regs. Most "bad" employers have more bark then bite, and if push comes to shove they will back down if you show a backbone.
As much as it sucks, your a pilot with no experience, throwing bags in YYZ, and if someone hasn't told you, your NOT going to get a great job demanding good money and sched. Especially now in the current economy.
Get some hours and move on to bigger and better.
I'm no advocate of the current job market and hiring practices (I've never signed a bond, worked for free, and have left a few jobs for more money/better working conditions) but it's time to get realistic.
If you want to be a pilot, you will most likely need to "go a reserve" and start at the bottom.
Make change from the top not the bottom. You can still go to a "crappy company" and make positive change; refeuse dangerous trips, overlaoding, bad weather, breaking duty regs. Most "bad" employers have more bark then bite, and if push comes to shove they will back down if you show a backbone.
The feet you step on today might be attached to the ass you're kissing tomorrow.
Chase lifestyle not metal.
Chase lifestyle not metal.
Re: "Poorly Paid, Often Tired, Junior Pilots"
Sorry but i've seen what holding out for a job can get you. It's not impossible to get a decent (not great but decent) paying job, I don't mind working ramp, but honestly my debt is too high to make a move across the country for poverty wages. I'm young(not yet 23) I have time to hold out. The job market WILL rebound, and when it does I'll have paid down some debt, and be in the market for a real job. I will take a job up north working ramp, I've been there it doesn't bother me. However right now its as much a dead end as where I am. At least my wage is adequate where I am. With pilots i know having 1000 hours taking ramp jobs, at 400 I hold no delusions of landing a job right now anyways. I know i was only offered the last job cause no one else would take it. Now someone with 300 hours is probably next on the list and might well take it. That's their choice. Hope it works out for them.
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mcconnell14
- Rank 2
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- Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 9:55 pm
Re: "Poorly Paid, Often Tired, Junior Pilots"
I think this sums it up...
http://aspe.hhs.gov/poverty/09poverty.shtml
hmm...were suppose to be "professionals" and have over 40 passengers (aprrox) to be in our control...and being paid barely over the poverty line...sad to think NYC TAXI drivers can make more money than someone who has to safetly operate a 10 million dollar + peice of machinery.
something needs to be changed and quick.
http://aspe.hhs.gov/poverty/09poverty.shtml
hmm...were suppose to be "professionals" and have over 40 passengers (aprrox) to be in our control...and being paid barely over the poverty line...sad to think NYC TAXI drivers can make more money than someone who has to safetly operate a 10 million dollar + peice of machinery.
something needs to be changed and quick.
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iflyforpie
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Re: "Poorly Paid, Often Tired, Junior Pilots"
You are doing the right thing.C-GGGQ wrote:Sorry but i've seen what holding out for a job can get you. It's not impossible to get a decent (not great but decent) paying job, I don't mind working ramp, but honestly my debt is too high to make a move across the country for poverty wages. I'm young(not yet 23) I have time to hold out. The job market WILL rebound, and when it does I'll have paid down some debt, and be in the market for a real job. I will take a job up north working ramp, I've been there it doesn't bother me. However right now its as much a dead end as where I am. At least my wage is adequate where I am. With pilots i know having 1000 hours taking ramp jobs, at 400 I hold no delusions of landing a job right now anyways. I know i was only offered the last job cause no one else would take it. Now someone with 300 hours is probably next on the list and might well take it. That's their choice. Hope it works out for them.
In my situation, I had debt plus a family to raise on one income, 300 and change in the logbook when my first flying job crapped out, and was pushing thirty. As much as I would have liked to take the first low-paying job that came along, I simply couldn't. I couldn't drag my family up north and I couldn't do the commute thing either.
Waited two years and got offered the job I have now. Pays multiple times what this poor F/O was making (what I got back in taxes this year was nearly half of what she was making). I'm home every night. We have a good company culture. Sure I have some extra credentials and do some work outside of flying--but who doesn't? It's not a job that will get my to the right seat working for WestJet, but is great for right now.
Geez did I say that....? Or just think it....?
Re: "Poorly Paid, Often Tired, Junior Pilots"
Can't the pilots at Colgan just join ALPA and fight for better wages? Sorry if that sounds like a stupid question..
Being an ALPA member myself, I find it somewhat embarassing that we are representing a company that pays such disgusting, pathetic wages.
Being an ALPA member myself, I find it somewhat embarassing that we are representing a company that pays such disgusting, pathetic wages.
DEI = Didn’t Earn It
Re: "Poorly Paid, Often Tired, Junior Pilots"
I think the answer lies in ones ability to understand what they are getting themselves into before they follow a particular career path. The glory days are bye and large gone! There are exceptions but on average many flying jobs put you in position where you have much more time off than the average Monday to Friday job. Consider that when you talk about low pay, $19,862 a year but you can find yourself working less than half as many days as the people outside of the industry, if you put yourself on their schedule and worked the other half its $45,905.00. According to the link provided above ALPA says an average of 900 hours a year for an first officer, the 40 hour work week crowd puts in 2080 hours a year.
As far as putting your faith in ALPA or similair organizations to pry more money out of a company consider what the CAW has done for the auto industry. Sure they got their membership crazy money for work robots can do but today that train is running in reverse.
As far as putting your faith in ALPA or similair organizations to pry more money out of a company consider what the CAW has done for the auto industry. Sure they got their membership crazy money for work robots can do but today that train is running in reverse.
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hawker driver
- Rank 5
- Posts: 308
- Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 6:49 pm
Re: "Poorly Paid, Often Tired, Junior Pilots"
It looks like they are already getting the word out as to the conditions they work in.
http://blogs.abcnews.com/theworldnewser ... ewser.html
http://blogs.abcnews.com/theworldnewser ... ewser.html
Re: "Poorly Paid, Often Tired, Junior Pilots"
Only if NTSB's suggestions would have authority as far as changes go, I think this would be a much better industry.ilovelamp wrote:Sadly I dont think it'll ever change.
Isn't their job to increase safety anyway? Isn't safety the priority of all operators ... cough ... pax safety briefings .... cough .... I guess it's not
Since paying more and treating crew properly is the recipe for a good resting period, it increases crew alertness and it all comes back to the circles of safe flying.
Re: "Poorly Paid, Often Tired, Junior Pilots"
Just to hijack this a bit back to the pay and experience of the crew, this is from the Colgan FAQ about the crash...
How many years at $17 000 does it take to pay back your flight training? Thats ok though, we're all privledged to be able to fly it is after all, all about the dream right?
So to all those aspiring airline pilots out there, after 2220 hrs in your log book and 772 on type (turbo prop) will you be making as much as your former highschool buddies in the drive through?Flight 3407 crew experience
14.
What were Captain Renslow’s qualifications and hours logged?
a.
Captain Renslow had 3,379 total hours of flight experience and was Airline Transport Pilot rated, which is the highest level of certification available.
b.
He had 172 hours of formal training on the Q400 aircraft, qualifying him fully in accordance with all applicable Federal Aviation Regulations.
15.
Captain Renslow’s hours on this aircraft seems low. Can you provide context on that?
a.
As is the same with major carriers, even experienced captains that upgrade to a new aircraft must receive extensive training on that new aircraft type prior to taking flight. Captain Renslow received formal training specifically for the Q400 and was qualified to fly this aircraft.
16.
What were First Officer Shaw’s qualifications and hours logged?
a.
First Officer Shaw had 2,220 total hours of flight experience.
b.
She had 772 hours flying the Q400 aircraft, qualifying her fully in accordance with all applicable Federal Aviation Regulations.
How many years at $17 000 does it take to pay back your flight training? Thats ok though, we're all privledged to be able to fly it is after all, all about the dream right?
Last edited by Invertago on Sat May 16, 2009 10:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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