Hey there public...welcome to our dirty little secret

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Topspin
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Re: Hey there public...welcome to our dirty little secret

Post by Topspin »

Wow: :shock:

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2009/05/1 ... alcomments
SNAFOO wrote: Although I agree with many that wages for US commuter pilots is low, it's tempered with the knowledge that flying an airplane isn't exactly rocket science.

Pilots have achieved legendary status as super-humans largely based on lack of understanding of exactly what they do. Believe it or not, the typical work load of an average airline pilot is considerably less than than a city bus driver. A bus driver must maintain a high level of attention during his or her entire shift and deal with issues ranging from unruly passengers, schedule delays, traffic and weather conditions. Bus drivers have the responsibility of transporting their human cargo safely while dealing with those challenges. And....bus drivers do it for a full shift, 5 days a week.

The majority of the workload for airline pilots occurs at landing and takeoff which are arguably very short periods of the entire flight. The rest of the flight enroute is handled by the autopilot.

The typical enroute cockpit scene consists of the pilots drinking coffee, eating lunch and sharing some light chatter all the while occasionally keeping air traffic control up to date and scanning the instruments for anomalies.

The pilot in command is the primary operator and the copilot helps out. They theoretically work as a "team" and that is true as far as a few functions go (gear and flaps are controlled by the "pilot not flying") but it's really a one man show as the copilot is also there to train and gain experience.

Airline pilots don't put in anywhere the same time on duty as the average bus driver but there is a great deal of training which is pretty much all concentrated on the "unlikely" events like weather or mechanical failure.

Most of the time its takeoff, coffee break, land in a largely automated machine.
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square
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Re: Hey there public...welcome to our dirty little secret

Post by square »

Hey bus drivers put in an honest day's work I don't mind the comparison. Airline pilots definitely have some more complicated procedures to execute in certain phases of a trip, so good for us. But bus drivers have gotta focus more during their enroute phase, and they have a lot of crap to deal with that I doubt I could ever tolerate, so good for them.
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bmc
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Re: Hey there public...welcome to our dirty little secret

Post by bmc »

Wasn't the first astronaut a monkey? :mrgreen:
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Re: Hey there public...welcome to our dirty little secret

Post by Jastapilot »

"I do not know a single, professional airline pilot who wants his or her children to follow in their footsteps,"
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bezerker
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Re: Hey there public...welcome to our dirty little secret

Post by bezerker »

I wonder if a bus driver is worried about the thunderstorms ahead that will affect the descent and landing, divert or hold, better check the wx at a couple of alternates again, well, now we are running out of gas because I took min fuel at the last place because I checked the prices, and it was a ripoff there, which worked out because those two extra passengers showed up and it was a short runway. Good on the F/O to get the new W&B done along with the performance charts because the pax were in a rush to get going. I didn't think he would be able to meet the second segment requirements, but he used a V1 increase and it worked nicely on paper (I would have hated to have rejected at V1 though, we would have went swimming, who makes those charts anyways?). What is with the radar? The slightest amount of moisture and the thing won't show bugger all. The storms look like they take up the whole sky, but it is hard to tell because it is pretty much dark out, the lightning looks cool though (remember the last time we flew around embedded CB's at night, I'm pretty sure we took a hit). I should write up that damned wx radar, but we already have the stormscope deferred and I don't know if it is really busted or just old, plus it is Saturday and there won't be any engineers in till Tuesday (because Monday is a stat I think, but I have a hard time keeping track of what day it is). Jeez, look at the bloody MEL, how many items can be deferred before the plane should be grounded, I guess it is up to me to decide. As long as the gear doesn't do that thing again, because I don't feel like cycling it 3 times tonight, not to mention that leak they just patched up in the wing anti-ice, and this is the first flight, so I hope we don't get too much ice on descent as I don't know if I fully trust it because it has been repaired 3 times the last few months. Oh well, the wx looks ok at the destination now, 500 ft and a mile in moderate rain. Unfortunately there is a cell on the other side so we will have to go straight in which will give us a bit of a tailwind, currently within the limits, but it will probably be variable due to all the CB's around. Hold on, it will be a wet runway so we better run the numbers on that. Well it is right on the limit, but since we can't hold or come in the other way so, it should be fine. We will just get wind checks on final (or maybe we don't want them). Jeez, lots of ice here on final, and yup, here comes the hail, I will never enjoy that sound. Stupid radar. Well, we need to keep the anti ice on so we will have to fly with the damned speed brakes out until short final (who designed this airplane) which I hate doing. Man, look at our groundspeed, we have a 20 kt tailwind at 1,000' that better drop off soon. Ah, there's the field, slow down you pig, wow, quite a crosswind, good landing, man, look at all the standing water, I hope she doesn't slide, oooh, just a little sideways there, good. Lets get to customs now, I hope they don't give us the full monty like last time. Shoot, did you remember to call ahead and get that extra limo, well, call dispatch and make up some excuse. All done now once we clean up the garbage in here (early morning flight tomorrow), and restock the drinks and snacks. Goodnight everyone, another 13.5 hr duty day done, oh wait dispatch is telling me I need to work on my day off tomorrow because Jim is sick. That will be min rest for the 3rd time this week. Oh well, beats being a bus driver.
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tonysoprano
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Re: Hey there public...welcome to our dirty little secret

Post by tonysoprano »

Handsome B. Wonderful wrote:
tonysoprano wrote: Tell ya what, go try the "expressway visual" in LGA in a real airplane. Now that's FUN.
I'm sorry, I don't really care either way but I have to bite...What do you consider a "real" airplane? One that has fans on it? One that goes really fast? Maybe one that the wheels aren't falling off of??? (okay, sorry Q guys) AND an "expressway visual" onto an 8 or 10 thousand foot runway to boot? WOW, you must really have seen some shit, and be some kinda pilot. Hats off to you Man. Hold your head high and wear your hat with pride...

That's easily as lame a statement as the one you guys are bashing...Seriously :lol:
Hey there "Handsome" (holy @#$! bro), if you haven't done it, I hope someday you get to. A real airplane is one that you have work a bit harder with and stay further ahead of. I've never flown the Q but I have flown the regular Dash and many other turboprops. Being more versatile, turboprops are much easier to handle than jets, as you know, right? Yep, I can hold my head high and I sure wear my hat with pride. That's something a guy that calls himself Handsome and Wonderful can never quite appreciate.
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Handsome B. Wonderful
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Re: Hey there public...welcome to our dirty little secret

Post by Handsome B. Wonderful »

The point of my post was that yours was just as much of a lame "my dick is bigger than yours" statement as the one you were bashing on. Spoken like a true Seneca Grad. Like I said I dont' really care, but I'm happy you're so very proud of yourself. I'm humbled by your "realdom", and by the fact that after all these years I guess I still haven't attained it by flying a "real airplane" on the "expressway visual". I'm sure it may only happen 200-300 times on a given day at LGA. You're definately part of an elite crowd of only a few that can do it. Bravo Man...Maybe instead of "tony" you should call yourself "Maverick".

Do they pay you extra to put on a clinic every time you fly? If not, maybe it'd be a good part-time gig. You could start something up on the side.

I concede to you and your ability. :prayer:
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corytrevor
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Re: Hey there public...welcome to our dirty little secret

Post by corytrevor »

Actually Tony...Handsome B wonderful is from the Simpson's, I guess you don't watch it. I know Handsome very well and believe me he could fly the "real airplane" that I fly much better than 99 percent of the people I've seen fly it (including me). Why do people give a shit anyways? Sometimes this forum is more like a sandbox than anything else.
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tonysoprano
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Re: Hey there public...welcome to our dirty little secret

Post by tonysoprano »

Hey handsome. You missed the point of my post. It was stated that more salary should be had for being able to fly the challenges of YTZ. All I did was state that if we are going to be paid based on that criteria, then some of us should be getting a @#$! of alot of money for doing what we do elsewhere compared to YTZ. You missed all that. You didn't follow the jist of this thread and when the size thing came up you felt disadvantaged. Who has the problem here? I'm not a Seneca grad. I did my apprenticeship in the high North in conditions you wouldn't survive a day in, you fuckin' little twirp. I earned my wings when you were still smothering Pablum all over your smart-ass little face. You're a real smart one aren't you? I've never met you but from your smart-ass attitude you wouldn't survive a day in my environment. They are going to chew you up and spit your bones out their mouths, if you ever fool them and get hired in the first place. I've seen your resume. I would just STF-UP if I were you.

Cory.
He might be able to fly the airplane but with a personality like that, he wouldn't last a day with most captains at major airlines. This guy has issues that are going to be a challenge to his career. Or maybe he just gets a hard-on with anonymity.
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Jastapilot
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Re: Hey there public...welcome to our dirty little secret

Post by Jastapilot »

Image
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Re: Hey there public...welcome to our dirty little secret

Post by Handsome B. Wonderful »

Gee thanks Corey, if I thought I knew who you were I'd buy ya a beer. I'm glad I'm foolin' somebody...

Sigh...Well tony ya know, my post had nothing to do with the thread itself but was, for the third time now, merely an opinion or an observation regarding YOUR post. That's about it "bro"...After 2000+ posts you'd think you'd understand that posting your opinion on an open forum may result in others pointing and laughing. Get outta the sandbox if it hurts your feelings.

I have no problem whatsoever nor do I feel disadvantaged, and unlike yourself apparently, I actually have less than nothing to prove to anybody. Since I really had no intention of getting into a dick measuring contest, I was serious when I said I was humbled by your "realdom" and conceded to your ability, yet you still feel the need to beat your chest and tell me where you've been and what you've done. The fact that you've "seen my resume" and that you "did your apprenticeship in conditions I wouldn't last a day in", without ever having met or flown with me only further highlights your superiority in so many ways. That sound you hear is the sound of me Golf Clapping.

And since you're making it personal now, as far as my attitude goes, anyone who knows me will attest that I do not lack the humility that you seem to. Who knows? Maybe I picked up yours following behind along your path to greatness. 99.99% of people I have worked with and 100% of people I've worked for will tell you that I'm as easy to get along with as they come. Though I may not work for what YOU call a “major” airline, I'm very happy with where my career has ended up and am very happy with where I am, (except for not having attained "realdom" I suppose). Among many other things I'm sure, it seems attitudes like yours could possibly be part of the reason why a certain once great, “major” airline we all know of is in trouble, and yourself along with allot of good people, including close friends of mine may be kicking your lunch boxes down the sidewalk before long. That is only speculation however…Not knowing you I can only assume that you work there. If you don’t then I apologize and retract the previous statement. If you do, it’s a good thing you've been everywhere and done everything. Ya never know how it may help in the long run...

As far as being a "smart one" goes, having not gone to college or university, and having barely finished high school, I'm about as uneducated as they come in this industry. Seems that my dumb ass got under your skin quite easily however. By the way I think, "twirp" might be spelled with an "e". I'm not sure though... Geeeez, I’m just sayin… :smt008

To be sure you don’t think I get off on anonymity, my name is Frank and I live at 3 Hickory Tree Rd. in Toronto. C’mon by sometime and I’ll buy ya a Carling just for bein’ so awesome. In, fact if you let me know ahead of time I’ll pick up some Dos Equis, since I can only assume that you must be the guy from those commercials. :lol:

I will now STF-UP, and concede to you for a second time Sir,
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corytrevor
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Re: Hey there public...welcome to our dirty little secret

Post by corytrevor »

I need a few Dos Equis too buddy. I want to live vicariously through myself.
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tonysoprano
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Re: Hey there public...welcome to our dirty little secret

Post by tonysoprano »

Handsome guy. I gotta be honest. I couldn't even find the interest to read your whole post. I'm sure whatever you said was very constructive but truth is I'm not interested. Have a beer for me and keep working on that resume.....
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Valhalla
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Re: Hey there public...welcome to our dirty little secret

Post by Valhalla »

Nice post, Handsome! Now that you've outed yourself, I can certainly vouch for your attitude. The "handsome" part... not so much...

Tony, try not to spend so much time and effort belittling what I (and handsome) do for a living. Just remember that equipment pay is a North American phenomenon. Everywhere else in the world, the heavyest metal is often flown by the most junior of pilots. The ex-Cathay Pacific, Emerates, Zoom, Canada 3000, Skyservice, CargoJet, etc pilots who are making a career at flying for Porter would all disagree with your suggestion that the Q400 is easy to fly. I've personally flown all four variants of the Dash 8 (and am proud of my 4 year degree from Arctic U), and unlike the classics, the Q400 is a Dash 8 on steriods - she'll kick your ass if you don't treat her just right.

As for the original topic... I'd like to add that there are lots of companies, with big or small airplanes, besides Westjet and Air Canada that pay their pilots "career" type wages. Porter is very much a startup and has some way to go, but has decided that it will be a career type company, and so the salaries will soon hopefully reflect that decision. Companies like Colgan and a number of others in Canada, that have accepted that they will be stepping stone for pilots, will use that as a justification to pay poorly.

As pilots, lets try to be professional and realize that insulting each others' jobs only cheapens our profession. When I go in to work, I'm expected to safely get the airplane from A to B. That may or may not mean to safely fly challenging approaches, deal with weather and mechanical problems, and not stall the airplane when I get tired. If I can manage not to be an asshole in the process, that's a bonus.
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Re: Hey there public...welcome to our dirty little secret

Post by Donald »

Well said Valhalla, nice post.
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dashx
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Re: Hey there public...welcome to our dirty little secret

Post by dashx »

Quote:
What are the challenges of operating out of the island?


Parking your car and waiting for the ferry.

Waiting for the owner to sign your cheque on friday night on the island. Now that is challenging.

HBW. your address don't look like Jane/Finch...............
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Re: Hey there public...welcome to our dirty little secret

Post by corytrevor »

There are a few douchebags that I'm glad I don't have to fly with around here.
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Re: Hey there public...welcome to our dirty little secret

Post by dashx »

Sometimes (only for select few) they take your backbone when you join AC.......
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Re: Hey there public...welcome to our dirty little secret

Post by Cat Driver »

I am so happy that the internet was invented because now that I am retired I can live my life in this virtual world online.

I wish I had had the chance to fly all these demanding aircraft like the Dash 8 in all its fearsome variants not to mention getting to fly the difficult approaches that todays pilots are faced with.

So keep it up gang I stand in breathless awe of your achievements.

Cat: :prayer:
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The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no


After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
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dashx
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Re: Hey there public...welcome to our dirty little secret

Post by dashx »

So keep it up gang I stand in breathless awe of your achievements
I respect my father. He struggled to get to his station in life in Canada. He is a stubborn old goat who just won't quit. Even in retirement. Drives my sister crazy. Actually he likes goats. It reminds him of his life back in the old country.

He still can't figure out the clock and the memory seats in his CTS. That's where I come in.....And don't even start with the VCR.

Every generation has its challenges. Just remember that.
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Re: Hey there public...welcome to our dirty little secret

Post by Cat Driver »

Every generation has its challenges. Just remember that.
True.

However it has only been three years since I retired and I doubt the industry has seen any really newer technology than the stuff that was flying when I quit. :mrgreen:

A plus is I got to fly some real interesting stuff in over half a century in the business. :smt040
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The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no


After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
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Re: Hey there public...welcome to our dirty little secret

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Re: Hey there public...welcome to our dirty little secret

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Re: Hey there public...welcome to our dirty little secret

Post by complexintentions »

lol...Frank/Handsome....dude, you have some serious issues! I call BS.

No one ever belittled the flying you do...whatever that is. No one cares. THAT was the point about operating out of YTZ or Expressway Visuals and so on. The fact you felt the need to go on and on about how humble you are and such a great guy to fly with...really only screams the opposite. The thinly-veiled satisfaction about AC's difficulties says a lot more about your character than your self-written bio. Tony's right to hope you never get on with AC, you sound painful to fly with. But since you're so happy where you are, I guess it's moot.

*psst*
(Telling everyone how very happy you are, and how not-disadvantaged you feel, and have nothing to prove to anyone...is like the guy at the bar telling chicks what a big dick he has. Sounds a bit desperate and insecure.)
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Re: Hey there public...welcome to our dirty little secret

Post by Jastapilot »

buuut, what if he really is well-endowed? ;) :lol: It's only fair he warn the girls!
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