UWO's BMOS - Commercial Aviation Management

[CanadianEh]

Sault, Confederation and Western Ontario are all good schools..
Each school has both good things and bad things..
So, I think... It's up to your choice and interest.
Find the program that fits to you.. If you go to a school that does not fit to you, you won't be very successful even if you
go to the school that has really good reputation/program. There will be some people who like this program but there are also be some people who don't like this program and so.. I think.. you can't just say 'this program is the best' or 'that program is the best'.. I don't really understand why people here try to harm each other.

Exactly.

I really don't think there's any good or bad......It's just what you make of it. People from pretty much every background have taken many different routes and have become successful, professional pilots.

Going to the states to fly while getting a diploma on the side is probably a great idea......if it suits your fancy.

Then again, so would going to university if that's what you wanted to do.

I don't get why anyone would want to bash any organization / program / group which is trying to be the best at what it does.
We are all here because we love aviation....or say we do. There's alot of cynicism on this forum and I can only imagine the effect it would have on someone considering a career in aviation. While we must be realistic, is it really necessary to be overly negative? Then again....what do I know? I'm just starting out right?

The UWO program is excellent for what it is IMHO. I am getting way more out of it than I expected....on both the flying and academic sides. I'm also very impressed with the dedication our faculty have shown to maintaining quality while constantly looking for ways to do things better.
That said, I am kinda the academic type. University is my thing right now and I feel like I'm in the right place. I know some people who can't wait to just finish and get out. Maybe a different route would have been better for them.

Point is.....EVERY route is prefect as long as it's what you want to do, you're happy with it, and it gets you where you're going.

So let's discuss the CAM program here, and if you want to talk about the merits of another program / route, start another thread....but for the love of all that's good could we stop with the bashing?

It helps no one.

TS

Good post, see you in the fall

[delpmk2]

0

[Thunderstrike]

From an article 'On the horizon : Global standard for Pro pilots' from a magazine(called 'Aviation for Women' September/October 2008) I read ;

Janeen Kochan, A member of the PABC(Professional Aviation Board of Certification) Board of Directors said,
'Pilot hopefuls, she adds, have traditionally chosen training programs based on word of mouth : "I went to this school, got all my ratings and got my job at a regional airline, so you should go there too.' Many people don't analyze programs and curriculum, she says, they often make decisions based on questions like : How fast and how cheap is the training? How fast will I get a job when I'm done? But Kochan stresses that there are not the questions pilots need to be asking today. "real preparation for a flying career is not about how much flight time or even how much training pilots have, but much more about how they have prepared themselves to become aviation professionals....'

----------------
I agree with her..
I think, our topic here should be.. 'How does the school prepare you well?', not 'how cheap' and 'how fast'

You hit the nail on the head there. A 250hr pilot is a 250hr pilot, but operators are often looking for more than just total time when they take on pilots.

Flight hours are just one part of the puzzle.

[SuperchargedRS]

Supercharged:

I have two questions for you.

1. Is English your first language?

2. Are you mentally retarded?

I believe an honest answer to each of my above questions will help put everything into perspective. Please feel free to answer honestly.

Perhaps that was not the most gracefully worded post I have ever made, however my point still stands.

Also what kind of man has a handle like Sepia, did you type that post up on your iphone, while twittering... in your miata??


... and for your second question; I think we established that I am not in a flight "college"

[sepia]

... and for your second question; I think we established that I am not in a flight "college"

Yes, I believe it was established that you were unsuccessful at completing an aviation college program. I'm sure someone of your unquestionable ethical nature, wouldn't allow that to make you become bitter and twisted about college programs.

[SuperchargedRS]

Some programs, yes I'm bitter, the programs that are a fuk fest and unnecessary.

I am not bitter on all college programs, infact I had a degree before I ever set forth into aviation.

Now if you want to be a lawyer, doctor, teacher then by all means go to a college and get a degree (as it is NECESSARY and MAKES SENSE).

These flight degrees remind me of those commercials I see on late night TV; "get a degree in construction management TODAY!" anyone who has ever worked construction knows if someone were to go to a foreman with an ITT tech construction degree they are going to get laughed at!

Come on guys, I should not have to tell you that the only real degree a pilot needs are the pages in his logbook!

[sepia]

Some programs, yes I'm bitter, the programs that are a fuk fest and unnecessary.

I am not bitter on all college programs, infact I had a degree before I ever set forth into aviation.

Now if you want to be a lawyer, doctor, teacher then by all means go to a college and get a degree (as it is NECESSARY and MAKES SENSE).

These flight degrees remind me of those commercials I see on late night TV; "get a degree in construction management TODAY!" anyone who has ever worked construction knows if someone were to go to a foreman with an ITT tech construction degree they are going to get laughed at!

Come on guys, I should not have to tell you that the only real degree a pilot needs are the pages in his logbook!

How would you explain the fact that the three youngest guys in my Air Canada start class all had college diplomas? If an aviation technology diploma is so worthless, why does Air Canada allot points in their interview process to those with the diploma?

Obviously you're all for short term thinking. I can understand, honestly I can. Every single job I had up until AC, didn't care about the diploma. They cared about my time, or if I could drive a fork lift. If those are the only kinds of jobs you aspire to have, then you're entirely correct, the diploma is a waste of time. At the end of the day, the diploma did matter though. It scored me points that I wouldn't have been able to get otherwise, in the most competitive interview process in Canada. That's the long term thinking, you need to have. It's not easy looking down the road a decade.

[deflux]

I think someone needs to take this thread out back with a shotgun and put it out of it's misery.

[AuxBatOn]

I think someone needs to take this thread out back with a shotgun and put it out of it's misery.

+10000000

[SuperchargedRS]

How would you explain the fact that the three youngest guys in my Air Canada start class all had college diplomas? If an aviation technology diploma is so worthless, why does Air Canada allot points in their interview process to those with the diploma?

Obviously you're all for short term thinking. I can understand, honestly I can. Every single job I had up until AC, didn't care about the diploma. They cared about my time, or if I could drive a fork lift. If those are the only kinds of jobs you aspire to have, then you're entirely correct, the diploma is a waste of time. At the end of the day, the diploma did matter though. It scored me points that I wouldn't have been able to get otherwise, in the most competitive interview process in Canada. That's the long term thinking, you need to have. It's not easy looking down the road a decade.

Mr. omnipotent Air Canada man,

Has is ever occurred to you that AC / Jazz / Major Airlines is not the be-all end-all for everyone? I have NO DESIRE for that type of operation. I have always been able to see where the money is and there are allot of ways to make money in aviation w/o going into the major airlines.

I have been accused of allot of things (as many can testify) however I do not think I have been accused of not looking to the future, half the time I get way too far ahead of myself. I have a plan and it is going rather well at this point. I aspire to more then working for someone else... and any company that puts that much value, in that much of a joke of a degree is no where I want to be.

-S
and once again, I have a degree and I have no problem with people getting REAL degrees (see my last post).

[flightlead]

noticed a few things about the original / rebuttle post by the author .

1) biased. The Canadian Forces, does not necessarily want a degree IMMEDIATELY.


2) Rude / ignorant (if you can NOT afford quality education, don't blame others who can. Right, yet your on OSAP?)


3) The Canadian Forces recognizes Westerns degree / flight training, evidently, this program is even published on their website, yet did you know there is also an entry plan called "Community College Entry Training Plan", which is geared towards graduates from Confederation and Sault College? That is correct, for half if not 1/4 of the cost, you still get top class training (due to subside) and you promise to complete any degree of your choice within 9 years.

Both subsidized colleges + Western are great programs, and above all "quality education". Note though Westerns program started just a few years ago, while Confederation (not sure about Sault) , have been graduating pilots to all elements of the industry for over 30 years. So when you make it sound like the subsidized schools are not "quality" or that they simply do not fulfill the job like Western, then my friend you are dreadfully mistaken. I considered Western as a choice prior to College, but i asked myself , "Why am I getting a fully fledged business degree , when I simply just want to be a professional pilot? . A degree is not ADDED BAGGAGE, do not get me wrong, it's a great credential, but not everyone pursues that route. Students graduating Sault/ Confed are also not any less of quality than what you make them out to be.

[mcrit]

Students graduating Sault/ Confed are also not any less of quality than what you make them out to be.

...the ones I've worked with always had good hands and feet......

[ToFlyIsDivine]

Simply loving the opinions from different sources, thank you very much and keep contributing!!!

Below I've compiled a list of posts from the forums.army.ca website pertaining specifically to the ROTP CAM program.

One thing I'd like to clarify is that although there is a college entry plan, it is different from the ROTP CAM as it is only a general ROTP entry plan while the CAM ROTP is a specific module that guarantees your choice of aviation career path if admitted only available to UWO! (With that said, correct me if I'm wrong.)

Below is a link to a document which was developed by a university administrator and CF recruiter with specific information regarding the ROTP CAM program offered by CF and UWO:
http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php? ... tach=25856

Below are links to individuals who have looked into or have experience within the ROTP CAM program:
http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php/ ... 815.0.html
http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php/ ... 958.0.html
http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php/ ... 975.0.html

I sincerely thank everyone for their input and look forward to hearing more!

[AuxBatOn]

FlightLead: while is it generaly true that you do not need a degree before you start pilot training, the program (CEOTP) has a very limited amount of position avail. each year (making it quite competitive) and this year, well, there is none. It's to recruit pilots when DEO doesn't recruit the numbers they want. ROTP is an "easier" way of getting in as a pilot.


TFID:

This document, while overall, seems to be okay, has some mistakes in it. For example :

At the successful completion of the BMOS Commercial Aviation Management degree, the Officer Cadet will be sent directly to Basic Flight Training in Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan, bypassing the Primary Flight training stage in Portage la Prairie, Manitoba that all other ROTP pilots must attend.

That's not quite true. Anyone with a CPL will by-pass Portage.

While this program pays for your flying training, which is great, it has nothing else to offer over any other ROTP program, IMO.

• CAM applicants are guaranteed Pilot occupation

That's provided you pass all the training. While it may seem obvious to most, some may see that as a guarantee to success.

But what I have the most problem with is your signature :

Too Expensive? Want to build hours quick? The ROTP program by CF can help.

You make it look like it's a way to build hours then @#$! off. And I wouldn't consider 250 hours a year "building hours quick", when most civilian jobs will get you well over 500 a year. If you want the be a civilian pilot, stay the civy way. If you want to be a military pilot, then join.

[ToFlyIsDivine]

Thanks AuxBatOn,
Your point is valid, I have tweaked my signature accordingly.

[767]

its the new age now, if you don't even have a degree, its hard to remain competitive....

Oh please!! come on now... I dont have a degree, and never will... why? because "ITS NOT FOR ME!" AAHH almost a class 2 instructor...

on the good side, thanks for posting one of my old posts...

I like to use the saying "drill the f*c*er*" ... meaning, drill the "student".. hehe

p.s. just had a student pass a flight test today, im just excited, so no mind ok?

[flightlead]

Simply loving the opinions from different sources, thank you very much and keep contributing!!!

Below I've compiled a list of posts from the forums.army.ca website pertaining specifically to the ROTP CAM program.

One thing I'd like to clarify is that although there is a college entry plan, it is different from the ROTP CAM as it is only a general ROTP entry plan while the CAM ROTP is a specific module that guarantees your choice of aviation career path if admitted only available to UWO! (With that said, correct me if I'm wrong.)

Below is a link to a document which was developed by a university administrator and CF recruiter with specific information regarding the ROTP CAM program offered by CF and UWO:
http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php? ... tach=25856

Below are links to individuals who have looked into or have experience within the ROTP CAM program:
http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php/ ... 815.0.html
http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php/ ... 958.0.html
http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php/ ... 975.0.html

I sincerely thank everyone for their input and look forward to hearing more!

Okay, So i read your "published" article and I still do not see any evidence how this program differs from Confederation College, Sault College, or even Seneca College (ASIDE FROM GETTING A DEGREE) ...Minus Seneca of course. Candidates coming out of specific flight colleges, (not sure about Seneca) , are processed as pilots under the CCETP. They are not signed up or mislead with air navigator etc. They enter under the CCETP, however are based on the COETP (you must achieve a degree within 9 years).

I am not sure what your intentions really are.... to help students get through school and get out without debt at the other end, or to simply just sell your program regardless if the information is factual or not. Ontario's Subzed flight colleges are processed in the exact same fashion. If you do not qualify as a pilot, then you simply do not qualify.

I thank you though for your awareness!

And finally, as of May 1st, 2009, there are NO positions, available for pilots, ROTP, and abroad. This information is valid, and i suggest you check with your local recruiting center.

[CanadianEh]

I'm going into the program this fall and although my career goal is to become a pilot, I am interested in learning about the business side of aviation. We'll see how my career goes.

[ToFlyIsDivine]

I'm going into the program this fall and although my career goal is to become a pilot, I am interested in learning about the business side of aviation. We'll see how my career goes.

you'll have a blast, the first two years are not as focused or as specialized, but once you go into the third and forth year, you definitely will not regret coming to Western for CAM.

Welcome and Best of luck!

[mcopolo]

hey guys,

this thread has been dead for a while. Don't know if you guys could still answer my questions:

1) My average for all my 6 grade 12 courses right now including one M course is at 84.67 (Second sem mid-term included)

so, if you round up, is at 85.

2) Physics 12 is among the 6 courses

but my grade 11 marks are complete crap (40's-50's)...they don't really look at yr grade 11 marks right?...they are only for early acceptance?

I have written the supplementary essay as required...what do they look for in the essay as I know this essay weighs A LOT in deciding the offer...

What are my chances of getting into this program. I know ppl in the 85-90's are getting accepted this year.

[CanadianEh]

hey guys,

this thread has been dead for a while. Don't know if you guys could still answer my questions:

1) My average for all my 6 grade 12 courses right now including one M course is at 84.67 (Second sem mid-term included)

so, if you round up, is at 85.

2) Physics 12 is among the 6 courses

but my grade 11 marks are complete crap (40's-50's)...they don't really look at yr grade 11 marks right?...they are only for early acceptance?

I have written the supplementary essay as required...what do they look for in the essay as I know this essay weighs A LOT in deciding the offer...

What are my chances of getting into this program. I know ppl in the 85-90's are getting accepted this year.

Hi there, your average is fine and you will likely get in, although it is close to the cut off. I know some people in the program who got in with lower. Like you said, Grade 11 marks don't mean much except for early acceptance. Good on you for pulling up your marks so much! In the supplementary essay they are looking for passion above all. They want to know that when push comes to shove and things get tough that you're going to have the passion needed to get through. I think depending on how good your essay is and if you keep up your current marks that you have an excellent shot. Are you going for flight or non-flight?

Cheers

[trey kule]

It is my opinion that any company or institution that has to try and chiesel this website out of advertising dollars by a postamercial should be held suspect as a place to spend your money. You really have to wonder how they are going to treat their students.

Many different people. Many different paths. Some are to young and inexperienced to see the wisdom in higher education. Others believe. The path you start your career on will be the path that leads you to your final destination.

[Thunderstrike]

You really have to wonder how they are going to treat their students.

Pretty well to be honest.

....not that I'm trying to drag this thread on well past its expiry date. I think it needs to be put to bed.

TS

[Hedley]

Many different people. Many different paths. Some are to young and inexperienced to see the wisdom in higher education. Others believe. The path you start your career on will be the path that leads you to your final destination

[mcopolo]

hey guys,

this thread has been dead for a while. Don't know if you guys could still answer my questions:

1) My average for all my 6 grade 12 courses right now including one M course is at 84.67 (Second sem mid-term included)

so, if you round up, is at 85.

2) Physics 12 is among the 6 courses

but my grade 11 marks are complete crap (40's-50's)...they don't really look at yr grade 11 marks right?...they are only for early acceptance?

I have written the supplementary essay as required...what do they look for in the essay as I know this essay weighs A LOT in deciding the offer...

What are my chances of getting into this program. I know ppl in the 85-90's are getting accepted this year.

Hi there, your average is fine and you will likely get in, although it is close to the cut off. I know some people in the program who got in with lower. Like you said, Grade 11 marks don't mean much except for early acceptance. Good on you for pulling up your marks so much! In the supplementary essay they are looking for passion above all. They want to know that when push comes to shove and things get tough that you're going to have the passion needed to get through. I think depending on how good your essay is and if you keep up your current marks that you have an excellent shot. Are you going for flight or non-flight?

Cheers

Thanks for the fast reply! I am going for the flight option since being a pilot has been my dream job ever since I was a kid.

I have a question that I want to ask for my fd who also applied to the flight program...his 6 grade 12 courses are at 87-88, but he took 4 of the courses in private school (Advanced Functions, Calculus, English, and I think World Issues), would he in anyway have less chance of getting into the program than I? Do western deduct marks for taking courses in private school?