CBC - Life of a pilot

[sepia]

Just caught the last 2 minutes of a CBC radio one program from 1200-1300 called Ontario Today. They had a focus on the low pay new pilots face.

http://www.cbc.ca/ontariotoday/contact.html is the link for the show itself.

I can't seem to find a podcast for the episode. Not sure if it exists somewhere and I can't find it?

Anyone listen in, or have a link to the pod cast?

[Widow]

Here it is: http://www.cbc.ca/ottawa/media/audio/on ... ay/19c.ram

Edited to add: Well said, Larry.

[sepia]

http://www.cbc.ca/ontariotoday/story_archive.html


Its there now

[looproll]

booo! it's in .ram format on cbc

[mattedfred]

does anyone know how to listen to this file?

i'm computer illiterate

[C-FABH]

To listen to a .ram file, you'll need to get a program called "RealPlayer"

[mattedfred]

thanks bud. listening to it now. nice to hear dan adamus participating.

[jpar84]

Interesting broadcast. It obviously paints a bleak picture, I was kind of hoping to hear a success story but I guess once the first caller told his horror story it set off a domino effect and every caller after that tried to top the last with their horror story. I would really like to get a perspective from somebody who has attained there dream job as a pilot be it with a major airline or somewherelse. It would be nice ot hear how they struggled but then finally made it and realized it actually was worth it in the end. That and where is the $88,000 coming from, i've spent 18K so far to get 100 TT in a 172 and have budgeted another 35-38K to finish my commercial, twin, twin Ifr and instructor rating. Anyway more important is where is that one success stroy out of 10 that gives us hope!

[FICU]

Anyway more important is where is that one success stroy out of 10 that gives us hope!

In this indusrty it's all about timing and who you know and if you are fortunate you can do well but there is a very low percentage of pilots that see that side of it.

[Eric Janson]

Anyway more important is where is that one success stroy out of 10 that gives us hope!

Well - I started on the ramp and I'm now flying A330/340 for a South Asian flag carrier.

I've paid a very high price along the way.

Is it worth it? Simple answer NO!

[complexintentions]

I started on the ramp and now I'm flying the B777 for a Middle Eastern carrier.

I have also paid a very high price along the way.

Is it worth it? The question doesn't have an answer, since there are so many different ways life could have gone. I can't miss what I never had. I do know that there are definitely rewards for perseverance, and I don't mean the big bucks or shiny airplanes. (But those are nice too!)

The number of depressing stories will always SEEM high, because:
-more people DO fail to grab the golden ring than get ahold of it;
-misery enjoys company;
-the happy people are too busy being happy to tell you about it, while unhappy people never tire of telling everyone else.

Besides, pilots talking about early jobs are like ten year olds comparing scabs - it's just another competition. Which is too bad because it muddies the very real issues of the horror show that lower-tier jobs are.

[atpl53]

The number of depressing stories will always SEEM high, because:
-more people DO fail to grab the golden ring than get ahold of it;
-misery enjoys company;
-the happy people are too busy being happy to tell you about it, while unhappy people never tire of telling everyone else.

Besides, pilots talking about early jobs are like ten year olds comparing scabs - it's just another competition. Which is too bad because it muddies the very real issues of the horror show that lower-tier jobs are.

Seems to me the entire premise of the show was to emphasize the LESS than glamorous side of the life of a pilot with specific reference to the crash in Buffalo and the low wages that the F/O was receiving. Even Dan Adamus mentioned the downgraded life of the pilot, complete with low pay and high hours of work. The show was all about the unspoken side of flying.

[ski_bum]

That show could have gone on for hours... I wonder if they will do it again, its definitely an interesting topic that will get a lot of attention from the general public. I have seen comments from the public on CBC's website on the article of the Buffalo crash, people comment how a high school drop out can work for the auto industry in Canada and make $80 an hour, but a skilled pilot, who has forked out thousands for an education can make so little. Time to duct tape the tip jar to the bulkhead... Great listen though.

[Topspin]

That's discouraging and disturbing.

[FICU]

I count myself as being very lucky...

Started cleaning airplanes and loading freight for a few months before getting into an aircraft seat with a very good 703/704 operator based in a large city. Flew turbines and a biz jet while there.
After 6 years I went to a 705 jet airline.
Made Captain after 2 years and will most likely finish my career here.

[Pete]

One of my buds had been accepted into a university offering the degree/flying (non-subsidized). During the interview he was asked on the spot (so he said) "Do you know what the average pilot makes and the hardships along with the job".

Anyways, he went on to say that the orientation when all students were sitting around they went in further about the job and my bud said alot of kids had some pretty long faces.

I have to say, I am pretty happy to hear this. And along with articles, this audio clip would be good for people thinking about getting into flying as a career, to have a listen. I wasnt shocked to hear that the FA had no idea how bad it was...I think its the students that need to be on the in, and be informed. I wish I heard more like this when I started (and paid more attention) because I'd be just as happy in some other field, getting to fly my own little plane on my spare time.

PS Good job Clunk

[2R]

Anyone read Faust lately ?

[Stander]

From listening to the show, I too found that the premise of the show did steer off course

It did start of discussing the low wages and demand of high hours that most of pilots have to contend with

It should have been a three part special. The first dealing with perils fresh commercial pilots have to go thru;
second the deregulation of the industry and what are expected within, and third the hazards of pilots vs. the glamour aspect.

The amount of money we shelled out to become professional pilots is something we have very control over. We either shop around for the best deals

And prepare the best we can to keep school expenses low. But once we become pilots (by profession), the industry should see us as so, and compensate us as so.

With Dan Adamus being a head of a Union for various pilots, I was wondering, since employers are ruining the industry and driving down wages to less than federal minimum wage,

Perhaps a “Union” for fresh pilots is in order. This would avert the low wages and in some cases no wages paid to pilots as they too try to make a living.

You know, from the last two comments read within this column, I have noticed that you all have jobs flying OUTSIDE of the country.

Another testament to show that for pilots, wages in Canada are deplorable.

[v6g]

Perhaps a “Union” for fresh pilots is in order. This would avert the low wages and in some cases no wages paid to pilots as they too try to make a living.

Simply enforcing the legal minimum wage would be sufficient.

[yycflyguy]

Perhaps a “Union” for fresh pilots is in order. This would avert the low wages and in some cases no wages paid to pilots as they too try to make a living.

Simply enforcing the legal minimum wage would be sufficient.

Not nearly sufficient.

[Oil Man]

Pilot wages are very low. But lets be realistic. A 703/704 opperation has a very small
profit margin. There are a lot of expensive expenses for every opperator. Does anyone know
how much it costs everytime the wheels touch at an international airport in Canada. What is the
tax rate that these employers pay? Yes many opperators are slimy, but why? (protecting thier retirement/
life time investment)

A pilots union will worsen the situation. It would eventually run many opperators into the ground.(Big red?)

This is just my opinion, but this is something that our governing body needs step in and help. Airports should
be taxed less, and not be able to have a profit at the end of the year. An airport is designed to service citizens who
already pay huge taxes.

I have seen an advertizement for a single engine, four seat jet aircraft ( a toy ) in Canada that
got $20 000 000 from our wonderful government for development.?????? What????

Imagine how far 20 million dollars would go to help lower taxes for aircraft compaines.

[Oil Man]

Oh ya, I forgot to mention the $$14 million our goverment is spending
to find out that one of our previous Prime Ministers' owes $75 000 in taxes.

Please don't come down to hard on aviation opperators. A lot of us
put food on the table with a cheque that comes every two weeks.

[yycflyguy]

Pilot wages are very low. But lets be realistic. A 703/704 opperation has a very small
profit margin. There are a lot of expensive expenses for every opperator. Does anyone know
how much it costs everytime the wheels touch at an international airport in Canada. What is the
tax rate that these employers pay? Yes many opperators are slimy, but why? (protecting thier retirement/
life time investment)

A pilots union will worsen the situation. It would eventually run many opperators into the ground.(Big red?)

This is just my opinion, but this is something that our governing body needs step in and help. Airports should
be taxed less, and not be able to have a profit at the end of the year. An airport is designed to service citizens who
already pay huge taxes.

I have seen an advertizement for a single engine, four seat jet aircraft ( a toy ) in Canada that
got $20 000 000 from our wonderful government for development.?????? What????

Imagine how far 20 million dollars would go to help lower taxes for aircraft compaines.

Here is a suggestion.

Instead of operating a company with razor thin margins, how about passing along the cost of doing business to your customers? Landing at international airports is a cost. If the trip requires operating into/out of an international airport include that cost in your invoice to the customer or select a nearby airport where the cost is not so great. This is certainly not a valid argument for the continued degradation of pilot pay. The greater threat is pilots undercutting other pilots to get the job.

Unions protect pilots from other pilots first and foremost. Unions protect a negotiated agreement between the employer and the employee so the pilot can concentrate on the job of safely transporting people, cargo and the aircraft to destination without the distractions of the corporate "business culture". I fail to see how Big Red has ran any operators into the ground as you suggest.

[Stander]

Oilman, You’re averting the subject of low wages and/or no wages and placing attention to air operators’ expenses.

If there is any truth in what you’re saying and what we’ve heard from this CBC special, both operators and pilots need to coexist in a “Sustainable” manner.
Piloting is a profession and should be treated as such. Some (emphasis on the some) air operators are contributing to the problem

By not paying what pilots are truly worth. Minimum wages for those with a profession designation is simply ridiculous- no pay is horrendous.
I agree with your last statement though, “A lot of us put food on the table with a cheque that comes every two weeks.”

But what you’re forgetting is that Pilots have to EAT too.

[fire flyer]

Sitting in a room right now with my co-workers. We make a good living doing what we have always wanted to do. The pay is good, conditions are great and if anyone doesn't like it they know where the door is and there would be no hard feelings using it. Can't speak for the other eighty or so pilots at the company but they are all here right?

FF