Fly it in auto-lean.....Too_Low wrote:Could it have been a new capt? How does one figure 800# for an hour's flight with two turbines? It's shocking to see how it happened, but I still hold out a hope that (s)he doesn't get too ruined over it...a shame really.
Dempster flame out?
Moderators: lilfssister, North Shore, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, I WAS Birddog
Re: Dempster flame out?
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'effin hippie
- Rank 5
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- Location: Further..further...ok, too far...
Re: Dempster flame out?
OK. Right.
I have worked for some real douche-bags. Not one of them ever said "Go get in that airplane without suffient reserves and go to CXXX." Or was foolish enough to order anyone to fly overweight.
No, they simply rewarded guys who "Got'er done" without asking too many questions, and effectively judged flightcrew on their ability to maximize their utility to the company without regard to regulation per se. Obviously, getting caught or bending metal lowered utility, so folks were being judged partly on safety, but not primarily.
Looking back on the better part of a decade in 703/704 I am amazed at my own naivite when I was starting out. The truth, as someone has pointed out, is that the majority of low-timers on their first job don't need to be pushed, but reined in from undue risk-taking out of enthusiasm and ignorance.
It is nice to see people coming out in defence of their employer. It truly is, and it shows that N-W must be doing some things right. Nonetheless, to suggest that two very serious incidents in three years are freak examples of isolated pilot error and totally unconnected to the company culture that was not only giving them their entry into professional aviation but which those pilots actually lived in every waking moment?
That not only strains credulity, but misses the point. Completely.
ef
I have worked for some real douche-bags. Not one of them ever said "Go get in that airplane without suffient reserves and go to CXXX." Or was foolish enough to order anyone to fly overweight.
No, they simply rewarded guys who "Got'er done" without asking too many questions, and effectively judged flightcrew on their ability to maximize their utility to the company without regard to regulation per se. Obviously, getting caught or bending metal lowered utility, so folks were being judged partly on safety, but not primarily.
Looking back on the better part of a decade in 703/704 I am amazed at my own naivite when I was starting out. The truth, as someone has pointed out, is that the majority of low-timers on their first job don't need to be pushed, but reined in from undue risk-taking out of enthusiasm and ignorance.
It is nice to see people coming out in defence of their employer. It truly is, and it shows that N-W must be doing some things right. Nonetheless, to suggest that two very serious incidents in three years are freak examples of isolated pilot error and totally unconnected to the company culture that was not only giving them their entry into professional aviation but which those pilots actually lived in every waking moment?
That not only strains credulity, but misses the point. Completely.
ef
Re: Dempster flame out?
Yup, never pushed, but sure did praise the guy(s) who pushed it to git'er done, while openly teasing(or worse) the guys who weren't 'comfortable' going in that weather, or taking that load, or cutting that one corner on fuel... etc...
Drinking outside the box.
Re: Dempster flame out?
Let's see....Too_Low wrote:Could it have been a new capt? How does one figure 800# for an hour's flight with two turbines?
167nm distance
Airplane cruises at about 190kts
Typical fuel flow in cruise is 300lbs/side.
Add your taxi/climb/approach + reserve and what do you get?
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Phileas Fogg
- Rank 3
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Re: Dempster flame out?
I'm pretty sure those Dash 20's burnt about 550 lb/hr...
Not a huge difference but 800 lb out of YGH for YEV is technically legal for the flight and 30 min VFR reserve - thats cutting your options though!
Not a huge difference but 800 lb out of YGH for YEV is technically legal for the flight and 30 min VFR reserve - thats cutting your options though!
Re: Dempster flame out?
http://www.tc.gc.ca/civilaviation/stand ... /oct09.htm
Prairie & Northern May 2, 2009 CAR 602.88(2) $1,000 monetary penalty
A commercial pilot flying a Beech 99 was on a return VFR flight when he encountered a double engine failure and was forced to land on a highway. In the investigation that followed, it was determined that the double engine failure was caused by fuel starvation. The pilot had commenced the flight without sufficient fuel to complete the flight. The pilot was sanctioned with a $1,000.00 monetary penalty.
Prairie & Northern May 2, 2009 CAR 602.88(2) $1,000 monetary penalty
A commercial pilot flying a Beech 99 was on a return VFR flight when he encountered a double engine failure and was forced to land on a highway. In the investigation that followed, it was determined that the double engine failure was caused by fuel starvation. The pilot had commenced the flight without sufficient fuel to complete the flight. The pilot was sanctioned with a $1,000.00 monetary penalty.
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ScudRunner
- Rank 11
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Re: Dempster flame out?
I think they should ban Twin Turbine VFR its just not safe.
