A Posting on PPrune I thought was Interesting...

[yyz flyer]

This article came from PPrune.org.....


Talking to people about this problem, I heard all sorts of stories. Within Air Canada, there is a deep rooted sense of Government bureaucracy inherited from the days when AC was a Crown Corporation. A few examples.

How many times does it happen every day that an aircraft arrives at the gate on sched and has to wait, engines running, 5, 10, 15, 20 minutes, for the ground crew to show up before it can be parked. When they do arrive, look out the window. They are never in a hurry, quite the contrary.

Recently, I was on an Air Canada flight. The front end put the parking brake and waited a short time for the ground crew to show up (less than 5 minutes, but we did wait) and when the aircraft was finally parked, the bridge put in place and the door opened, there was no ground agent in the bridge. Air Canada rules state that there must be a ground agent in the bridge before anyone can be let out. We waited in the aircraft at least 10 minutes after the door had been opened, until the captain got out of the cockpit, went into the terminal and came back two minutes later with a ground agent in tow. When I walked out, there were several ground agents milling around the gate desk, chatting.

Another case I heard about. An airline employee goes to buy a car. At the dealership, he recognizes a senior Air Canada ground agent. This AC ground agent also works full time at the dealership. The airline employee enquires on how this person can find the time to work full time at the dealership and at Air Canada at the same time. It turns out this AC ground agent who makes a high hourly pay and has full time shifts can sell his shifts to junior ground agents who have low salaries and part time shifts. Air Canada pays the shift to the senior agent at the seniors' salary, who in turn pays the junior agent the shift at that agents' lower salary. The senior makes $100 per day profit on the junior, while working full time at the dealership. It seems that Air Canada attempted to stop this practise but ran into the opposition of all union groups involved. This seems to be widespread.

A new aircraft technician gets hired a few years ago. He is given a work order to go fix an aircraft in the hangar. He completes the job in 30 minutes and comes back for more work. His supervisor tells him the job he was given was a two hour job and instructs him to go have coffee with the others for 90 minutes before coming back for another work order. At night, the Air Canada maintenance hangars are full of pick nick tables with Air Canada technicians killing time for their next work order. When a technician works efficiently and quickly, he is quickly warned by the senior technicians to slow down, less the junior make them look bad. I was told it is a common sight to see aircraft technicians sleeping in Air Canada aircraft in the hangars at night.

Talking to people, one hears dozens of such stories, all of which are part of the overall Air Canada problem.

As long as a large proportion of Air Canada employee will continue to have that mentality that Air Canada is Canada's flag carrier that the Federal government will never allow to go under, things will not change.

Like Sabena, Swiss Air, Eastern or Pan Am, Air Canada can and will go under if it doesn't become a model of efficiency at all levels of the company. Having most seats sold on a fleet of modern fuel efficient aircraft is not enough. All involved have to pitch in. This is not what is happening.

Air France and BA were able to turn a profit despite very heavy Collective Agreements and High salaries. Air Canada can do it too. If not, it will follow the example of Swiss Air and Sabena, whose employees, all thought until the very last day that their governments would never allow their airlines to fold, yet fold they did.

[square]

Man that's shocking! Just imagine if anyone tried that at a small and much less prestigious operation where everyone works in the same building. Surely fired the first day.

[c170b53]

Good try, you might want to spray some WD-40 on that Red Devil next time

[yyz monkey]

That's right, all of Air Canada's woes come down to lazy, self-serving union members.

[KAG]

That's right, all of Air Canada's woes come down to lazy, self-serving union members.

Some of them do.
No one can argue that the inefficiency displayed by certain groups (ACGS for example) isn't costing you big money fleet wide over the year.
How about rude gate agents that don't want to actually do the job they fought for - push wheel chairs, and deal with the public. The rude behavior displayed by same gate agent because she’s pissed she has to do her job. What kind of impression those that leave on the person being wheeled or their family? Or the plane load of PAX holding short of the gate watching their ground crew sleep in an empty baggage cart (These examples actually happened to me)
That not only costs you money in spent gas, it also causes angry passengers to find other carriers.
That kind of behavior is not widely tolerated in a non union environment.

I'm not saying non union is the way to go, or all unions are bad, just pointing out more is tolerated from a company standpoint then necessarily should be.

[Dockjock]

I hope that is not true. But the part about the ramp and agents is definitely familiar. Getting less common though.

[whiteguy]

Man that's shocking! Just imagine if anyone tried that at a small and much less prestigious operation where everyone works in the same building. Surely fired the first day.

Yes, shocking that you believe everything written in a forum like this!

[tonysoprano]

KAG.
Frankly I think your vision of unionized workers is filled with misconceptions and fairy tails. Oh I know, you used to work in a unionized environment, bla, bla, bla. Aside from the recent economic slowdown stats, the fact that AC/Jazz load factor has hit record levels puts that argument to rest. Contrary to all the diarrhea that is fed here, we have consistent record high load factor which tells me people appreciate the service and come back. I just can't get over how you guys repeat the same shit, day in, day out and AC/Jazz keeps flying over 70,000 people all around the world every day. Does it not seem kind of obvious that after giving up so much and sacrificing so much, unionized workers are not the problem? Does it not seem obvious that the grumpy agent is not AC's big money-losing problem? When you see rampies taking their time going to the gate it's probably because they just finished up another flight and are on the go all day because MANAGEMENT likes to run the place short-staffed. It's not the union that tells them to slow down. Get into the real world and you will discover that it's the blood-sucking parasites in management that have been taking this enterprise down the path of destruction. You guys keep talking about grumpy employees. Why make the minority the stereotype? It's happened to you and yes it's even happened to me! Tell ya what though, I'll take the grumpy AC agent anytime over the brainwashed, downright weird, faked-smiled one at WJ any day. Am I stereotyping KAG? Have a look at some non pilot forums and you will quickly discover what people really think of airline service in this country. The employees at AC (and WJ) will continue to do their part, rest assured. You made a decision to go to "tealer pastures" and became a "born again". Keep on thinking what you're fed. Reality is another place you need to visit my friend. The employees and their unions are not the problem!

[KAG]

Tony.
Did I say the unions were the cause of your current situation? Nope.
Did I mention even your pilots union in my post? Nope.

I was just trying to point out to YYZ monkey that some of your problems can and do come from your unions - again, left pilots out of it.

How many times have you arrived at a gate and waited for a crew? Or waited for the crew to finish loading and get your paperwork? How about a cranky CSA’s whose humming and hawing because she has to wheel a wheel chair (that recent story from one of your own) or just being rude in general?
It’s got to get tiring watching all this and not being able to do anything about it. But hey it’s not your job right? I don’t know about you but that drove me nuts!!! Yes I have been away from Jazz from over 2 years, and your company has made good progress in the customer service dept. But I still fly AC; I still see Jazz/AC planes holding off their gates waiting for a crew. I still hear your employees venting about their CSA. So the shit is still going on, albeit not as much.

Call me a born again, brainwashed, Kool-Aid drinking monkey, but I can do something about it, encouraged to infact.
I’m not knocking your service (I enjoy flying AC), loads, or even your balance sheets. Just pointing out that there is some merit in the union environment breeding a lazy attitude, a “not my job” mentality.

Oh and for the record, ACE, your management, high oil, and the economy are the reasons Air Canada is in trouble. The unions (employees) had very little to do with it aside from chipping away at your efficiency.

Flame away.

[tonysoprano]

I don’t know about you but that drove me nuts!!!

I don't see it much on the airplane I fly. AC seems to be two airlines, domestic and overseas. Overseas being the part that runs well. But being a commuter, I see the domestic problems and positives as well. The difference KAG is that when you witness the nonsense, you point the finger at unions. Must have "helped" you in your decision to leave, I don't know. The truth, again, is the employees are only as good as management makes them, not unions. And by the way, the "not my job" mentality is heavily outweighed by the "extra mile" one on a daily basis. Trust me.

[aroundthewing]

Kag, I think Tony was bringing to light that the operation is in fact understaffed in some if not all areas. Some of these issues you mention are not the fault of the employees, but of how they are managed. You've been away for a couple of years? Their have been changes in two years. Beefing up staff requirements is not one of them. Branding Unionized employees as lazy? That's what your post is focused on, correct? These days, late crews to gates/gate holds are not always the fault of the employees. No, they are not sleeping in baggage carts, or grouped together at Tim's, but probably working on another flight 10 gates away. It's just the reality of the business right now. It sucks to high heaven, but that's the way it is run right now. You can blame whomever you'd like. It's always easy to call the game from the other side of the fence!

[crazy_aviator]

Instead of narrowmindedness thinking , can we not look at the big picture like perceived wise adults ? What do you think is happening to Canada and the USA as an example ? look at the jobs, technology and $$ going overseas ? look at the dropping productivity ? look at the decline in right thinking and right doing ? Is there ANY person on this site with wisdom who would speak here and carry on a wise conversation with the BIG picture in mind ? VERY unlikely !!!

[C-FABH]

Air France and BA were able to turn a profit despite very heavy Collective Agreements and High salaries. Air Canada can do it too.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009 ... ecord-loss

"British Airways posted its worst ever financial performance and scrapped its dividend today as high fuel prices and a collapse in business travel forced the airline into a loss of £401m."

(For those curious, that is $712 million in Canadian dollars)

[RB-211]

These are carriers that were making £900ish ($1.7) billion a year ago.

Big drop, but my money says those with the big stacks of cash do ok during the down times.

Your point?

[Jaques Strappe]

Big drop, but my money says those with the big stacks of cash do ok during the down times.

Quite right

It is just a pity that few corporations these days can't seem to contain themselves and save cash for the inevitable downturns. It seems to have turned into a " take your money and run" sort of campaign, leaving someone else to pick through and resurrect the remains, just to do it all over again. For this reason, I don't blame the 9 pilots at Continental for end running their pensions. I guess the executives don't like competition though.

For now, this sort of business philosophy is not so prevalent in Europe. Recently however, England has on more than one occasion, been referred to as nothing more than an American aircraft carrier parked in the channel.

But I am sure BA is well prepared to weather the storm.

[denkauto]

Edit

[memorylapse]

British Airways was just downgraded to one level below junkbond status. It has some really big problems! It forms the core of the weakest worldwide alliance around (One World). It has the weakest hold of its main (and only true) hub. It is under attack from all sides, low costs (Easyjet, and Ryanair) are handing them their behind on the short haul front. And at Heathrow their hold is under severe threat due to open skies between Europe and North America. A lot of the other alliances are leasing out their regional Heathrow slots to their US based partners. KLM has handed over a number of Fokker 50 slots to their partner NWA (now Delta), and Air France has done the same for Delta Airlines. Lufthansa is about to become the full owner of the second largest carrier at Heathrow (British Midland). Watch for Air Canada, and United Airlines getting a hold of more slots if they want them.

British Airways could easily become just a carrier transporting origin and destination traffic to London (a sizable market, but vulnerable). You can reach more destinations in the UK through Amsterdam Schiphol (an airport like Frankfurt and Paris with lots of scope for growth, and much better suited for hub and spoke traffic), then you can reach them using London Heathrow. Heathrow is a true nightmare for a network carrier, it has very little room for growth, you can’t turn an aircraft around in a short space of time. It is already the airport with the most wide-body movements in the world, (I used to fly a B763 on a forty minute flight into there on a regular basis). It would take us 7 hours from clocking in to clocking out.

We haven’t even started on the financial side of their business. Their reliance on premium traffic; a market that has dried up for the foreseeable future. Their pension liabilities are HUGE! And as usual the ordinary worker at BA will be the one getting screwed on that one (sound familiar AC colleagues?). Their fleet is old, and Britain might be the country that is most severely impacted by the worldwide crisis. This airline has been run in the American way for a long time, just showing good quarterly numbers, while neglecting the long term. This is coming around to bite their ass, right about now. Last year BA was in negotiations to buy Iberia, now this is stalled because Iberia is worth more than BA. Their experiment to try and take advantage of the open skies (called Open Skies) by basing aircraft (B757) with a business class product at Schiphol and Paris, is bleeding money at a prodigious rate, and is unlikely to survive this year.

It is all way off topic, and I wouldn’t wish AC troubles on my worst enemy, but thinking BA is out in the clear, or doing well, is totally wrong.

Greeting M.

[RB-211]

Lapse,

Anyone that assumes any carrier will survive the mother of all recessions is fooling themselves. The simple fact is that those going into recession with large capital reserves and a workable business plan are more likely to survive. BA ended the year with $2.5 billon (CAD) in reserves. I am guessing the other big European carriers are in similar, if not better positions.

BA and Air Canada (along with most major flag carriers) share similar issues involving legacy costs. Pension deficits are a problem for both and all other industries for that matter and need to be solved over time. The fact AC has not closed or amended their scheme to new joiners is a tribute to the unions but a questionable business decision by the airline.

Reliance on premium traffic was a risky move by BA but one that led to big profits during the boom years (see cash reserves above). Open skies has dented revenue somewhat but the airline is still the dominant carrier at the worlds (for now) most lucrative airport. Its market share has in fact increased recently and you may find BMI may be in fact broken up with BA benefiting in course. Without the addition of a 3rd runway and the fact that T5 is a world apart from the rest of the facilities, BA will still enjoy a massive advantage over its competitors, just as AC does at YYZ or LH at FRA.

Consolidation is coming to our industry and fast. Your comment about BA buying Iberia or vice versa is incorrect. An all share merger is being attempted and the recent spike in Euro/Sterling brought both companies market caps to equal status. I think you will find that this has now returned to a more reasonable 60/40 split in favor of the English carrier. The merger will likely happen over the next 6 months creating a huge company. ATI with AA will follow giving the ‘Weak’ Oneworld alliance a complete stranglehold on South America and the dominant share of the North Atlantic.

You are again incorrect on assuming that the BA fleet is old. Without diving in to the numbers I believe the average age of the Airbus fleet is 3 years. With 45 777s in the fleet and 10 more arriving in the next 18 months the 744’s are leaving very quickly. The 757 will be gone by year end. 380s and 787s then begin arriving and I would venture a guess that it will quickly become a very young fleet for some time. BA was smart enough to pre finance a large percentage of these jets as well meaning they may be able to take advantage of other carriers defaulting on purchases.

Your knowledge of economics is questionable as well as the UK has taken a beating but the major economies of Germany, the US and Japan have now it appears faired much worse. Time will tell.

I have only corrected some of your points as a matter of fact. The airline industry is on life support and this winter we will undoubtedly see much blood spilled. The fact it has yet to happen is quite remarkable. The industry will look much different in coming years that is a given, the million dollar question is what exactly that look will be.

Lets all hope the ride is not too rough for anyone.

[memorylapse]

Sure I don’t know what I am talking about, lol. My post was to show that BA is in a lot of trouble, even more so than the other majors in Europe. Apparently people think that BA has its ducks all lined up, I want to show it does not. It has a lack of strategy, and focus. On all fronts it is under threat. At the current rate it is burning through cash, they will run out in 18 months. They have now arrived at desperate measures of forcing staff to take unpaid leave, and shoving a pay cut down the throats of its pilots in exchange for stock.

BA’s fleet age is 11.4 years. KLM/Lufthansa/Air France are respectively 8.8/8.3/9.5 years. This is very young compared to most North American carriers (Air Canada being the exception at 8.8 years), but still significantly older than the other European carriers. And most of BA’s older aircraft are the big expensive wide-bodies.

I am not sure why you think you have corrected some of my points, because you have done nothing of the kind. All you did was state your point of view, a vast difference. As I expressed mine.

I can’t foretell the future, but let’s agree to watch the news over the next six months and you will see the game played out. I can tell you, it won’t be pretty.

[memorylapse]

I am still watching the news.
It is coming down to crunch time. I know BA won’t disappear, but some major help will have to come its way. Pilots have done their bit, handing in pay, and increasing their productivity. Most of the rest of the workers are balking. Some 1800 have “volunteered” to work for free for a month or take unpaid leave. Redundancies on the order of 10% are being talked about. The pension fund debacle looks to be unsolvable unless pensions are severely cut. They are looking for new capital, yesterday at the annual meeting their chairman expressed severe concerns about the future. Most of the truly bad news probably is more for internal consumption (basically getting the staff ready to be robbed, and give them the sense it is for their own good). Something Air Canada employees are very familiar with. But it shows how bad things are at BA. They will expect nothing less than 53% of the combined company of BA and Iberia (who would have ever thought that would be possible??). It is going to be interesting if Iberia is willing to bite. It is going to be a long, cold , hard winter.

Announced today by BA (reference to my previous post).

OpenSkies460.pdf

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