How important is ground school?

[Cookie Monster]

I hope I don't get ridiculed over this, and I hope I don't sound like an idiot. I know there is more to flying an airplane than steering. I'm going through the online ppl at Harv's Air, granted I've just started in the last few weeks, but a lot of this stuff seems like they are teaching how to answer questions, or the engineering of everything. I hope it's ok to put some of the questions of the quizzes on here, if not then let me know and I'll edit them out, but here are a few examples:


The engineering of a slot in the leading edge of the wing enables an airplane to land at a slower speed because it:
A. Decreases the camber of the wing
B. Decelerates the upper surface boundary layer air
C. Delays the stall to a lower angle of attack
D. None of the above

Which of the following is true with respect to an aircraft that is in a descending turn?
A. Both wings have the same angle of attack
B. The inside wing has a higher angle of attack
C. The outside wing as a higher angle of attack
D. None of the above

And in previous lessons/quizzes they are teaching about how constant speed props work, or dynamic and static stability.
Maybe once I actually get into a plane with an instructor and he is teaching, then I will be happy that someone tried to teach me those things, but why does a guy need to know what happens when you push or pull the prop control knob, aside from the obvious actual using a constant speed prop and procedures and technique for using one, but why do they have to go into how when you push or pull the knob, how oil pressure is changed in the line or dissecting the governor and how it works.

I'm not sure if you actual pilots are going to read this and say how you need to know these things to be able to know other things and do certain other things while flying. But I'm just not seeing the benefit of learning any of this. Some things I can see why I need to learn and know, and I know this is a bit of a rant for a first post, but I just wanted to ask the experienced on here how actually important is the ground schooling. I've been out of schooling of any type for years and unsure if it's just me, or if should just bury my head, get this over with and pass the tests and then start learning with the hands on, or if I should be filling my head with every little bit I am shown and taught through this program.

[C-GGGQ]

in my experience you can never know too much about your plane. knowledge of that mechanical working will allow you to diagnose a problem in flight or at least give your AME a better description of the problem you've encountered. The more info you give the AME the more likely he is able to quickly diagnose and fix the problem. Just like you're car mechanic or any repair specialist. i'm sure there are other reasons but thats the first one that came to mind.

[just curious]

People will likely laugh. So what?

A) Groundschool is necessary both legally and to comprehend a toboggan load of pesky details that sometimes total up too life or death in the air.

B) The questions are likely a combination of -
1. did you comprehend the section?
2. There are questions of a smilar nature on the exams you will have to write
3. Somebody did something stupid to an aircraft as a result of not knowing that particular tidbit, and they want to avoid a recurrence.

C) You may find that going to the airport walking around a plane and starting flying may put some of this stuff in perspective.

The thing is once you get a pilot licence, you are at liberty to buy a machine and fly it without much more supervision than renting a car from Budget. I presume the level of detail in the school course is set high enough that you can do that without death involved.

You'll have other questions. Perhaps they'll be stupid. Personally I find the only stupid questions are the ones you don't ask. Unless you ask questions that are better asked of an instructor when you are paying for his or her time, generally you'll get some answers here. Lik separating the wheat from the chaff, some answers are worth what you pay here, some are pure gold.

Have fun.
JC

[SkyWolfe]

COOKIE COOKIE COOKIE, C IS FOR COOKIE!

[square]

Good question. Tricky answer. Those two questions seem unimportant. But GGGQ is spot-on, your maintenance dudes will love you for knowing how stuff works.. I give slightly more detailed snags than my peers and they really appreciate it.

Also stuff like knowing how a certain instrument works will give you a good insight into when to completely ignore it, or how to know when it'll be out and by how much. Or how to anticipate an emergency & avoid something serious. Your weather knowledge will teach you how to anticipate reduced VFR/IMC conditions, icing and thunderstorms.

Anyway, yeah. The ground school is super important. Not all of it, but lots of it. Especially met, navigation/avionics, the regs, engines and instruments. And if you don't know your stuff an employer & their training department will not like it.

[inuitgifts]

Its useless crap.

The real learning will be in the airplane.

[hairdo]

Its useless crap.

The real learning will be in the airplane.

Yes, I suppose it is. You never learned anything from groundschool I presume. In case you didn't realize, the two go hand in hand. The more you can learn about how and why your aircraft does what it does, the less confusing it will be when you get in an aircraft and the more you will be able to control situations where no procedure has been written.

But hey, what do I know?

[Shiny Side Up]

Its useless crap.

The real learning will be in the airplane.

I feel bad for you. This often means that your groundschool was treated as a formality, and your instructors spent a lot of time while the airplane engine was running teaching you useful stuff when you should have been learning stick and rudder skills.

Everything in the airplane can be summed up as how to fly the airplane, everything in groundschool as when not to fly the airplane.

[Invertago]

Its useless crap.

The real learning will be in the airplane.

Quite often the ground school weeds out this type of personality.

[Prairie Chicken]

ditto what Just Curious said!

Take advantage of the less costly but just as important learning that takes place in the classroom. But yes, access to the a/c does help put it all in perspective.

[LousyFisherman]

Its useless crap.

The real learning will be in the airplane.

I feel bad for you. This often means that your groundschool was treated as a formality, and your instructors spent a lot of time while the airplane engine was running teaching you useful stuff when you should have been learning stick and rudder skills.

Everything in the airplane can be summed up as how to fly the airplane, everything in groundschool as when not to fly the airplane.

It is useless crap because of how it is taught. 3 classes of weather without looking outside, a kindergarden course on navigation, don't colour outside the lines, and discussions on forces and accelerations that are just plain wrong.

Don't get me wrong, I think that the theory is very important and I have spent/am still spending time fixing my deficiencies but the teaching of ground school is the worst part of the flight training business. And of course energy mnanagement is not taught at all, in my mind the most important theoretical knowledge flying safely requires.

And if ground school is to inform you as when not to fly then it is even more inadequate, because it certainly did not give me ANY information about that.

LF

[C-GGGQ]

well unfortunately it sounds like you had a substandard (or unfortunately with the puppy mills out there standard) ground school instructor. someone who got their license but really had no teaching experience.

[VikVaughan]

I hope I don't get ridiculed over this, and I hope I don't sound like an idiot. I know there is more to flying an airplane than steering. I'm going through the online ppl at Harv's Air, granted I've just started in the last few weeks, but a lot of this stuff seems like they are teaching how to answer questions, or the engineering of everything. I hope it's ok to put some of the questions of the quizzes on here, if not then let me know and I'll edit them out, but here are a few examples:


The engineering of a slot in the leading edge of the wing enables an airplane to land at a slower speed because it:
A. Decreases the camber of the wing
B. Decelerates the upper surface boundary layer air
C. Delays the stall to a lower angle of attack
D. None of the above

Which of the following is true with respect to an aircraft that is in a descending turn?
A. Both wings have the same angle of attack
B. The inside wing has a higher angle of attack
C. The outside wing as a higher angle of attack
D. None of the above

And in previous lessons/quizzes they are teaching about how constant speed props work, or dynamic and static stability.
Maybe once I actually get into a plane with an instructor and he is teaching, then I will be happy that someone tried to teach me those things, but why does a guy need to know what happens when you push or pull the prop control knob, aside from the obvious actual using a constant speed prop and procedures and technique for using one, but why do they have to go into how when you push or pull the knob, how oil pressure is changed in the line or dissecting the governor and how it works.

I'm not sure if you actual pilots are going to read this and say how you need to know these things to be able to know other things and do certain other things while flying. But I'm just not seeing the benefit of learning any of this. Some things I can see why I need to learn and know, and I know this is a bit of a rant for a first post, but I just wanted to ask the experienced on here how actually important is the ground schooling. I've been out of schooling of any type for years and unsure if it's just me, or if should just bury my head, get this over with and pass the tests and then start learning with the hands on, or if I should be filling my head with every little bit I am shown and taught through this program.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHnDWZAehac

[KAG]

While I question the timing of some of your lessons, think of these lessons as pieces of a puzzle. As your training progresses the pieces will come together. You may not get the entire picture until the picture is almost complete – You’re CPL/Multi IFR.

Your questions are designed to get you into the books, looking up stuff. You’ll discover as you go, it’s not how much you know, but can you accurately and quickly find whatever information you need at that time.
It’s also to give you the foundation for the rest of your career.

Sure it seems that constant speed props are PFM (pure fucking magic) and what possible application could they have at this point (none really) but if you have a basic idea of how it works now, it will make your future training that much easier. Especially if you’re sitting around the hangar, asking the instructors/mechanics detailed questions.

When I went to school (college) I didn’t care to learn some of the stuff they were spoon-feeding me. While the timing was off (IFR ground school before I had my PPL), it did become important down the road. Some of the stuff I learned (the human factors) probably saved my life.

Do what they ask you to do, and critique when you have your training finished. You just may find there is method to the madness.

[Shiny Side Up]

Don't get me wrong, I think that the theory is very important and I have spent/am still spending time fixing my deficiencies but the teaching of ground school is the worst part of the flight training business. And of course energy management is not taught at all, in my mind the most important theoretical knowledge flying safely requires.

Once again this sort of saddens me, because it doesn't sound anything like the groundschool I aim to teach. Granted, I don't think that I've ever met another instructor who has ever liked or felt the necessity of teaching the subject matter. I can only say that the key to making it worthwhile is making sure its relevant to their training. The only part I dislike about teaching groundschool is the air law. Its tough to make it interesting. But stuff like Thunderstorms? Fronts? Engines and Airframes? That stuff is interesting! Theory of flight? Can you explain the power curve? The goundschool instructor has to know their stuff, if they don't, the students turn them off. Some of the stuff in groundschool seem like tiny tidbits of info, but some of those bits might save your life.

Get the students engaged!

[767]

Maybe once I actually get into a plane with an instructor and he is teaching, then I will be happy that someone tried to teach me those things, but why does a guy need to know what happens when you push or pull the prop control knob, aside from the obvious ........

Thats why I always say to combine the ground school with the flying. Some people want to get the ground school out of the way asap and then want to fly after, and they end up in the same position as yourself. I hope you are combining your lground school with the flying. If you are, good job.. If not, stop complaining and get busy!! (fly with ground school)

p.s. If you find ground school boring, then go up and do sightseeing flights, rather then logging 100 hours of training time!

[Rockie]

I've been out of schooling of any type for years and unsure if it's just me, or if should just bury my head, get this over with and pass the tests and then start learning with the hands on, or if I should be filling my head with every little bit I am shown and taught through this program.

Not only is ground school extremely beneficial, but I encourage you to never stop reading for as long as you're flying. The only thing you have to learn in the airplane is how to actually control it, the rest you should do your best to know beforehand and then apply it in the air.

Knowledge = good
lack of knowledge = not so good.

[LousyFisherman]

The only part I dislike about teaching groundschool is the air law. Its tough to make it interesting.

Snip...

Get the students engaged!

SSU, that's amusing and true, Air Law was the most interesting part of my ground school because the instructor for that part was good, engaged the students, kept asking why do you think this law was written etc. If the rest of the teachers of ground school had been that good it would have been an exceptionally interesting course.

With regards to whether my ground school was poor, average or good, in discussions with over 15 students from 4 different schools I have to conclude mine was fairly average for the industry. Which explains a lot of the deficiences in new pilots. I really wonder about those who experienced a "bad" ground school

[MichaelP]

Groundschool is supremely important!

We learn to fly on the ground.

Some of what we learn is of little importance it seems, but there's no bad learning unless your teacher is Fagin!
Learning begets learning and if we tune our minds in this way, like an athlete we are more and more able to run the marathon of learning that is flying. It's good stuff.

I did not have much groundschool when I learned to fly, but I was already an avid reader. Television was almost as bad then as it is now and books have no commercials.
There were model aircraft to build and to experiment with, and I even came top of the school's science fair one year with aircraft designs, a wind tunnel, and a few models.

Today many students come from no aviation background at all, never read a book about flying, and with no technical ability. They take their cars to the repair shop now while my generation fixed their own... But cars were simpler then.

Here, we have discontinued offering third party online groundschool, it is not good enough.
Online groundschool works for a different generation of people who already know something technical.
There is nothing like one on one or even classroom teaching to fully explain things.
Online groundschool can only explain things one way.
In a classroom a teacher can find many ways to allow a student to gain a full understanding.

Ground school is fundamental, it's importance is priceless.

[Hedley]

Groundschool is supremely important!

Then why is it so crappy?

P.S. Don't confuse the paper 40 hr ppl requirement with
reality. Some people don't need 4 hrs. For others, 400
hrs isn't enough.

Remember a year or so ago, when the CPL groundschool
requirement went from 40 hours to 80 hours? One day
passed, and then previously qualified candidates had to go
out and get another 40 hours of groundschool.

[MichaelP]

Then why is it so crappy?

Everywhere???

Perhaps because it is the inexperienced teaching it.
Groundschool is seen as an onerous task by many and so it is often relegated to the least experienced who teach mostly from rote without the experience to lean on.
Experience is what makes it interesting... interesting enough to learn.

I'm as guilty as anyone else in this as I do not have the time to do it. One day perhaps when I'm too old and frail to have a medical I will teach it myself.

How about you Hedley; do you have enough time to teach groundschool and share your experience?

I once suggested that some of the retired pilots come back to teach groundschool and share the wealth of knowledge they have... It didn't go down too well.

[Hedley]

Hedley; do you have enough time to teach groundschool

I used to teach groundschool, years ago. It was up to me to
photocopy the handouts and tests ahead of time. After a day
at work, spending the evening on my feet wore me down,
frankly.

Nobody wants to teach groundschool because the young
instructors don't get time in their logbooks, and it doesn't
pay squat (it ought to).

If you have 20 people each paying $400 (picking numbers
out of the air - YMMV) the school grosses $8k and
ought to be able to pay ground school instructors half of
that - $4k - which for 40 hours, is $100 per hour.

But it never seems to trickle down that far, does it?

[MichaelP]

Here the average is $350 for groundschool and students are allowed to take it again and again for that one payment.

I think we should allow only one resit and/or perhaps 50% off each additional sitting.

I invite any experienced pilots who are willing to make 'guest' appearances in our groundschools to contact me.
It would be good to be able to pass on some of this experienced knowledge to the students.
Our PPL groundschool is in Richmond on Saturday afternoons.

Also anyone willing to do training sessions occasional evenings will be of interest as we can promote these sessions in advance, charge, and pay...

[FlaplessDork]

My PPL Ground School was 80 hours long. We had 3 day of just going over the E6B calculations. Probably 6 - 10 classes on nav. To top it off we have a Tutorial Session with a CPL student on the weekends that was free for ground school students to go over things they don't understand.

I think Ground School is critical, but often done very poorly. Increasing the CPL requirements from 40 - 80hours was stupid move. It didn't get to the root of the problem. I did a CPL ground school in 40 hours that was taught well, and was more than prepared for the written. Someone needs to be held acountable, namely the CFI.

[Hedley]

Increasing the CPL requirements from 40 - 80hours was stupid move

I suspect it was done to please ICAO, which I think
is french for "the tail wags the dog"