PIREPS

[Doc]

Can we discuss this like gentlemen?
WOXOF?

Having a spot of bother understanding why a pirep I passed to an FSS unit VERY recently was ignored.
The gist of the story is: I passed a report of "ceilings in the trees" just north of a certain airport while a single engine VFR aircraft was loading passengers on the ramp. I requested this information be passed along to the pilot, because I know how unpopular my report would be if directed to the aircraft directly.
My report, which I feel would have direct and immediate bearing on the safety of the departing aircraft was not passed. The aircraft in question turned back to the airport after encountering unflyable conditions north of the airport.
Question.....Is this NOT the very reason we give FSS PIREPS? Who should I have reported these conditions to, that they would have been passed to the departing aircraft in a timely manner? Like in three to five minutes? And, if the report had included ice, or freezing precip, would it have made a difference?

[thatdaveguy]

Answer to all Doc threads in the ATS Question forum: Talk to the unit manager if you have concerns about the professional performance of a specialist.

[Doc]

You're probably right tdg. Think Ill fill out a little blue card on this one. This kind of thing could hurt somebody. Thanks for your input.
D

[W0XOF]

You picking on me Doc????

Going with the details you posted, you're absolutely right, that should have been passed to any and all VFR a/c who might possibly operate in or near the affected area.

If you were going the Blue Card route, it would probably be more effective if you called the Customer Service #.

[Mohun]

Hi Doc. Not knowing you or the history you seem to have, I will try to answer your question.

PIREPS have changed somewhat in the last few years. They now follow ICAO format and require specific information. I have received information from controllers before that did not give me enough info to publish the PIREP. Controllers seem to get annoyed when you press them for more info.

Back in the "day", that would have been useful information and published easily and quickly. Now it is very different. Did you pass it to an FIC or an AAS?

[rotorfloat]

We've been told the same thing Mohun, local FSS told us that pireps must have quantitative values or centre won't post them. You can't give generalities.

With Doc's pirep, "Overcast 50 agl, vis below 1 mile" would have been posted and/or passed on.

[lilfssister]

I think Doc's point, which is valid, is that it was information about flight safety that should have been passed on to the following aircraft. Whether or not it got put into the system as an official PIREP is irrelevant.

411.13 Note:
Significant information may impact on aircraft
intentions. For example, a taxiing VFR aircraft may
cancel its departure intention immediately upon
receipt of below minima condition or freezing
precipitation information, thus terminating the
advisory.

[Doc]

Just to clear it up, it was not intended to be an "official" pirep. I passed it to the FSS unit on the MF, while climbing through about 200 feet agl. It was more or less....."The weather to the north is in the trees, please tell the 206 on the ramp, as he's VFR...." It was never designed to go into the "system". But I know the Cessna pilot would have shut it down and gone for tea.
I was pretty surprised it wasn't passed.

[Mohun]

Sounds like relevant info. I would have passed it along. Sometimes pilots decide to try anyway though...

[bigfssguy]

The FSS may have just forgot? I mean i never make mistakes but i hear others do from time to time!

[GilletteNorth]

I mean i never make mistakes but i hear others do from time to time!

Nudge nudge wink wink say no more. A nudge is better than a wink to a blind man eh wot?
While the rest of us are pretty normal people heh heh

I'da passed it.

[aklinz]

Hello Doc. Gotta agree with most of the posts in here. Your pirep should've been passed. The Blue Card should be used. Just a question though. Did you try to pass it to the FSS at the airport, or did you go to the FIC's FISE frequency ?
Andrew Klinzmann

[square]

FSS ignores PIREPs all the time. And the fact that only quantitative values can be used is seriously something only the FIC would ever care about.

[Doc]

Normally, as most of you have noticed, if I think something is a little wonky, I tend to bitch and moan about it.
In this case, I felt it impacted on flight safety, or had the potential of doing so.
I went the "customer service" route, and emailed Nav Can's customer service addy.
They took it pretty seriously and have already dealt with it. I received a reply within an hour of my original letter. That was yesterday. Got a letter this morning, saying it was not likely to happen again, that the persons involved had been counseled.
'nuff said.

[thatdaveguy]

Normally, as most of you have noticed, if I think something is a little wonky, I tend to bitch and moan about it.
In this case, I felt it impacted on flight safety, or had the potential of doing so.
I went the "customer service" route, and emailed Nav Can's customer service addy.
They took it pretty seriously and have already dealt with it. I received a reply within an hour of my original letter. That was yesterday. Got a letter this morning, saying it was not likely to happen again, that the persons involved had been counseled.
'nuff said.

Thank you Doc for using proper channels. We've been telling you all along these issues are dealt with seriously and appropriate action is always taken.

[Big Pistons Forever]

I have never had an issue of PIREP's or flight safety issues not being passes on in a timely matter, what I have had an issue is how few pilots make the effort to pass on/update PIREP info. A classic case was last summer when I was going VFR back and forth between YKA and YXS. It was one of those days with lots of localized crap weather but a 20 mi detour was often the difference between no problemo or spit on the windshield flying. A total of 8 PIREPS were filed that day, I filed 7 of them

[GoinNowhereFast]

I just use the fancy little point form list on the back of the CFS. I'll tell FSS everything that's relevant.

[bigfssguy]

I just use the fancy little point form list on the back of the CFS. I'll tell FSS everything that's relevant.

Just to add to this, give us everything! Regardless if you think it's relevant or not. Remember that Pireps are not just for pilots, there very useful forecasting tools for EC. Stuff like wind at altitude, temp, patches of icing at altitude all is stuff that can help the forecaster. Becasue as you know there are some huge gaps in this country that outside of satellite images there is no info so whatever you can pass on can help!