RCMP - just another fatal fiasco

[Wilbur]

Why don't you read the Commissoner's report to get the full story and facts.

[NWONT]

A few years ago four young RCMP officers were shot dead in their tracks because they didn't assess the danger level of a suspect as severe enough. If a person is full of booze and trying to obtain some drugs or more drugs by breaking into a mall pharmacy and then advancing toward an officer my guess he is definately a threat to be reckoned with. If you are out of control due to drugs or alcohol and are told to raise your hands, get on the ground or put you hands against a car then do it. There would be no need for the use of tazers or lethal weapons if people would follow the directions of law enforcement to allow them to remove the threat and assess the situation. I wonder how many police officers have gone to the morgue because this wasn't done. Why should police officers be expected to put their lives at risk just because someone thinks he's superman because of substance abuse. I also feel for the parents of this man but I also feel for the families of police officers that are slain by someone that is wacked out of his mind and full of regret the next morning.

[Snagmaster E]

This RCMP fiasco took place in 2004.

A senior RCMP witness and all forensics contradicted the testimony of the lying bastard cop who fired the fatal shots, and yet the RCMP covered his ass all the way to the bank.

What a goddamned joke of a police force.

Read this and weep:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/opi ... le1155527/

I bet you get real mad when people criticize the career you're in don't ya. Saying stuff like, what a joke of an industry. Like when Chefs comment on whether or not they feel that computer technicians do a good job.

Until ya do it, zip it.

[Just another canuck]

Why don't you read the Commissoner's report to get the full story and facts.

Link??

Canada does not have the death penalty... why do RCMP feel they should hand it out personally? I don't blame him for firing off a round, but wouldn't one shot to the leg have been sufficient?

I bet you get real mad when people criticize the career you're in don't ya.

Of course, but God forbid you say anything bad about the great RCMP... and BTW, when a pilot breaks the rules, an outside investigation is completed... not a DIY investigation like these criminals. What this RCMP officer did was wrong... that's all... and his buddies should not be covering his tracks for him.

I do have respect for police officers... just not all of them, like this dick.

[BoostedNihilist]

Nein! Vee did not exterminate zem, zey all died of heart attacks

see, zee vrecords are vright here.

The reason we don't respect the RCMP and their internal investigations is because generally speaking police are not paid to investigate justification.

When a normal civilian is charged with a crime, their personality is stripped away and they are judged by their singular action. Any outside factor is stripped away and the action becomes the person. When an RCMP officer is under investigation it is the exact opposite, the action becomes a justification defense and the officers upstanding personality (obviously, he is a cop right) becomes the hitchpin of his argument. You know, we're the good guys, we don't murder people so clearly the action was justifiable. In the real world, most of the time, a JURY gets to decide whether they believe a crime has been comitted or not. But alas, the RCMP is so afraid of any precedent of liability being set they will invariably cling to whatever legal justification they can muster to ensure none of them are ever held accountable for their actions. Rather sad, pathetic and hypocritical if you ask me.

"read the commissioners report"

That dick is bought and paid for by the RCMP. That's like asking moses to prove god exists, and he provides you with stone tablets and a "because I said so"
This might work for a believer but as a skeptic it is going to take a little more than that to sell me on your logic.. sorry.

I have seen the enforcement action webpage and it is RIDDLED with dirtbag cops being suspended for 10 days with pay because they made a 'boo boo' Notice those proponents never mention this page and when they do they hold it up as the last bastion of accountability, unfortunately it only goes to counter their point that the force is ethically sound.. What a joke.

[NWONT]

Get real??? If I was drunk and stupid enough to break into a pharmacy looking for prescription drugs I would expect to be confronted by the police and the first thing I would do is get my hands in the air or spread myself out on the ground. If not I would expect to be taken down in a very aggressive manner because I had just commited a serious crime. If I arrived in a foreign country, like Dziekanski, and couldn't speak the language,and my mommy wasn't there to meet me I surely wouldn't go on a rampage, yelling and throwing furniture. I don't care what third world country you come from, somebody at the Vancouver airport can speak your language. If you behave in this sort of antisocial behavior there are consequences. A drunks knife or bullet kills you just as dead as a professional hitmans. As I said before, I wonder how many police officers lives could have been saved if they would have been more aggressive. Why should a police officer lose his life because some scumball thinks he should take more time to figure out if he is in fact a threat to his life. I say, if you have committed a crime, get your f#*king hands in the air or get on the ground, then we'll figure just how dangerous you are.

[Just another canuck]

If not I would expect to be taken down in a very aggressive manner

Aggressive doesn't have to mean 3 bullets. Jeez.

And whether you believe someone is a scumball or not, their lives are worth just as much as mine or yours... and just as much as a cops as well.

You know, we're the good guys, we don't murder people so clearly the action was justifiable.

Exactly... for some reason, too many people are under the impression that police officers can do no wrong. They are human... they do @#$! up... and they should be held accountable for their actions, just like the rest of us. In fact, they chose this profession and should never let rage, revenge, unnecessary violence ever get in the way... but they always do. I grew up with some guys that are now police officers and have no business being there, but now because they wear that badge, they are considered upstanding citizens, when in fact, they are some of the worst people I know. If two of the five cops I know personally are like this, why not RCMP? Or are they different?

[North Shore]

A few years ago four young RCMP officers were shot dead in their tracks because they didn't assess the danger level of a suspect as severe enough.

I'm not up on all of the details about this tragedy, but it was my understanding that the young guys didn't assess the danger level correctly for a couple of reasons - one, they were pretty much fresh out of Depot, and thus may not have had the experience to do so, and two, their superiors (who did know the danger level) didn't properly oversee the operation..

otherwise, carry on...

[rigpiggy]

what other equipment did he have. Pepper spray, extensible baton, extensive handéhand training. I think maybe the touchy feely hiring practices have to go back to the 200+ lbs males.

[Wilbur]

Sorry Cpl ATC, the Complaint Commissioner was created by Parliment and reports to Parliment through the Solicitor General. Both the Chair and deputy are lawyers by trade with no connection to the RCMP. The Chair was a federal prosecutor and the deputy was in private practice.

Read the Commisioner's report. If you do, you'll realize you haven't got a clue what you're ranting about.

Now go put some fresh batteries in you tin foil hat before the RCMP read your brain waves.

[BoostedNihilist]

Hey wilbur... does your back get sore towing that party line?

[Spokes]

A few years ago four young RCMP officers were shot dead in their tracks because they didn't assess the danger level of a suspect as severe enough. If a person is full of booze and trying to obtain some drugs or more drugs by breaking into a mall pharmacy and then advancing toward an officer my guess he is definately a threat to be reckoned with. If you are out of control due to drugs or alcohol and are told to raise your hands, get on the ground or put you hands against a car then do it. There would be no need for the use of tazers or lethal weapons if people would follow the directions of law enforcement to allow them to remove the threat and assess the situation. I wonder how many police officers have gone to the morgue because this wasn't done. Why should police officers be expected to put their lives at risk just because someone thinks he's superman because of substance abuse. I also feel for the parents of this man but I also feel for the families of police officers that are slain by someone that is wacked out of his mind and full of regret the next morning.

+1

[Wilbur]

Sorry. I'm not RCMP, never have been, not a cop, never have been, have never worked with or for any cops.

[BoostedNihilist]

Too bad for them, they are really missing out

[Cat Driver]

Officer cleared of Vanderhoof man's death

Hey, Wilbur I wonder if maybe that cop thought he saw the guy holding a stapler and he feared he was about to be attacked and he didn't have three more RCMP as backup?

In that case he was acting in accordance to the RCMP standard methods was he not?

[Wilbur]

http://www.cpc-cpp.gc.ca/prr/rep/rev/ch ... x-eng.aspx

[Valkyrie_XB70]

I always love hearing someone say "Couldn't they have just shot him in: the leg or the arm". Police and military are trained to shoot for the center of mass, more target and a reduced chance of having the round exit and cause collateral damage. It offers you the best chance to take out your target, and yes if you are discharging your firearm it ceases to be a person and become a target. When it comes to firing more than one shot, that again is normal policy to ensure that your target is taken out of the fight. Most police officers are trained to expend between 3-5 shots per target.

Here is the best way to never get shot by a cop: When the guy with the gun says get on the ground, listen to him....

[Snagmaster E]

Monday Morning Quarterbacks. I can't say, I wasn't there.

[TheRedPages]

Snagmaster E

We all (as citizens) need to question and scrutinize our police force. History has not had good outcomes for people who do not question the actions of those who are supposed to keep them safe. The RCMP also simply need to be investigated by an impartial and educated department. Im not saying that the police should not be investigated by other police, As pilots at Transport Canada investigate us when there is an accident. But the police need to be routinely investigated by someone other than themselves. There has been a call for this for a long time and it needs to happen soon to prevent continued pointless uses of excessive force and deaths both among the civilian and police populations.

TheRedPages

[Wilbur]

Sorry Cpl ATC, YOU ARE THE DUMBASS. You haven't read the report issued by the complaint commissioner, because if you had you would know your version of the event is not the full story and leaves a very incorrect impression about what happened that night.

[LH]

(1) The Mountie involved in the Vanderhoof shooting was NOT an Officer. He was a Peace Officer, but not an RCMP Officer. To be called an RCMP Officer he would have had to have at least the rank of Corporal, making him then a Non-Commissioned Officer. An Officer other than a Non-Commissioned in the RCMP is from the rank of Sub-Inspector upwards. If one still wants to call an RCMP Constable an Officer, then that's fine, but they should then also call an Army Private an Army Officer and an Able Bodied Seaman in the RCN a Naval Officer.

(2) The four Constables killed at the perp's farm in Alberta were put in that position and had that happen to them because of the actions and orders of a Senior NCO who instructed them to attend that farm. The blame for their deaths lays exactly at that NCO's feet. None of those Constables had the experience in police work at that time, to be allowed anywhere near a situation like that. They were still on a steep learning curve, but that made it too steep with only 3 months of Basic training and little experience. I read that they didn't asses the situation or danger to themselves properly. Exactly!!....and because of the foregoing reason. Have some experienced Members attend that same scene and the situation would have been much different. Members might still have been killed, but laying next to those murdered Members would have been another body bag carrying the body of the perp. That's because experienced Members have more knowledge than the Basic lessons learned at Depot Divion in Regina.

(3) RCMP Members are taught that when they unholster their weapon and point it, they are to point it at the perp's torso. No Wyatt Earp crap like aiming for wrists, legs, the perp's weapon or any other such bullshit. You are aiming for the torso with the intention of bringing that perp down quickly and the perp dying of his wound(s) just might happen. You might have been an 'ace' on the gunnery range with that weapon yesterday, but this is the real world now buddy and that pumping adrenalin and not so steady hand now aren't the same thing are they 'big guy'? If you are not willing to do this or you feel that in your jusgment, the incident does not warrant the potential death of the perp., THEN LEAVE YOUR F-CKING WEAPON HOLSTERED. Pull it out and not even fire it and you're ass is grass and some Section NCO or Orderly Room will be the lawnmowers. Put your damn brain in gear and cock it first before grabbing that other piece of headache.

(4) Approaching possible assailants, on or off drugs of any type, can be neutralized and brought-down quickly without the use of either a sidearm or a taser. It may be hard to believe with all the propaganda about, but before the taser was invented, the decision was not "do I shoot/kill this person?", "stand here and possibly get beat to death?" or "run away some place and hide?". Your head was attached to your body for other reasons than a place to hang your bloody hat.

(5) The RCMP's in-the-line-of-duty actions now need to be investigated by an independent agency and not necessarily another police Force. Based on their actions at Vancouver Airport, their lying and arrogant testimony on the Witness Stand it would be enough reason, but it isn't. The fact that one of those members was caught DUI and was still in uniform to attend the Vancouver Airport incident mans the 'wheels have come off the train' at RCMP HQ. A servere 'enema' needs to be given to the RCMP and removing their powers and abilities to investigate themselves is now long part due.

(6) I would like to know who, among all those posting on ths subject, knows ALL 35,000+ Members of the RCMP all across Canada. There must be at least one for sure because I've read at least one who states that ALL RCMP Members, in fact ALL police anywhere across Canada are ALL the same. Let's go with that inane comment then and I'll add to it. Over the last number of years there have been far too many occasions where Captains and/or First Officers have been found drunk on the Flightdecks of major airliners in the process of preparing for T/O. NOT ONE of these pilots lost their licenses to fly permanently and only endured loosing their jobs and having their licenses to operate aircraft suspended for awhile. I therefor submit that ALL pilot are drunks, fly a/c when they are drunk and if they haven't committed any of the forgoing, they soon will do so. Now, continuing on, there must be some other person who knows every single Chartered Accountant across Canada also.

[Wilbur]

Robinson was involved in his MVA after the YVR incident. No doubt his lawyer will use undiagnosed PTSD caused by the YVR incident in his defence of the driving and related charges. He hasn't been on duty with an outstanding impaired causing death charge.

[LH]

I stand corrected then. Therefore, based on his Witness Stand testimony, he should be facing RCMP Service Court charges concerning the way he conducted himself in this incident. The factual lying and evasive anwsers given on the Witness Stand would have been other RCMP Service Court charges. Leaving the scene of an accident in which he was personally involved, while DUI or not, is ANOTHER charge in RCMP Service Court. Consuming ANY amount of alsohol or spirits of ANY type after that accident and before arriving polie questioned him would be another set of charges in RCMP Service Court.

PTSD ain't going to 'cut much grass' in any RCMP Service Court. He ain't dealing there with some naive public jury or other unknowing folks. If he's hoping to be "Invalided to Pension" at said Service Court then he might like to know I know of a bridge still for sale in a borough of NY City. Based on his demonstrated stupid actions to date, I will just naturally assume that everything I've stated from the beginning of this paragraph is totally not agreed with by this 'mentally-challenged' individual.