Instructor Student Communication

[brandonD]

I would be very grateful if the experienced aviators here can shed some light to the situation -

On my second lesson with the instructor we probably both had a long day, and we were pressed for time. Some things that concerned me:
- he would give me control (I have control) and then steer the control column to adjust bank, did not feel safe with the situation
- got a little aggressive when he had to repeat himself in the cockpit (long day for both of us, I was not at my sharpest), a little yelling and yanking here and there
- shows impatience when I fail to recall things (e.g. pre-flight items)

Overall he's a good dude and I think we both had a stressful day before the lesson, how should I talk to him so that future lessons become more productive and safe for both of us?

Thanks!

Brandon

[Tango01]

Tell him the way you learn so he can adjust his style to fit yours. If the yelling continues, or you feel he's agressive, or makes you uncomfortable fire his ass and find an instructor that can do the job better. You are paying for this...don't forget that.

[C-GGGQ]

as you said could just be a bad day. Bring it up with him though. As an instructor i can tell you that 7 flights into the day your threshold for student errors diminishes rapidly. Honestly after a full day of students not grasping proper landing technique, spin recovery, etc. You'd prefer it if ONE student would just smarten up and do it right . If its as you say a bad day and doesn't happen again forget about it everybody gets a bad one every once in a while. If it continues, talk to him, if it still continues. Find another instructor where the teaching technique is more to your liking.

[loopa]

All great advice above, but before finding another instructor consult the CFI.

[brandonD]

Thanks for the insights.
Sure hope the next flight will be better.

[SuperchargedRS]

One thing to keep in mind.

Look at your current job (outside the aviation business).

Ask you self; IF I TREATED / SPOKE TO MY CURRENT BOSS LIKE MY INSTRUCTOR SPEAKS TO ME WHAT WOULD BE THE OUTCOME.

I am sure that if many people outside the aviation industry acted as your instructor did, to there boss they would be looking for a new job in a short while.

[C-GGGQ]

your flaw there is that the student is the customer, not the boss.

[SuperchargedRS]

your flaw is you missed the point entirely.

[square]

Communications about being clear. What should you say? Exactly what your concerns are. And that instead of him having little temper tantrums he should simply explain clearly what should be done differently so that youre able to learn something. I might also remind hes a little xxx hour wonder who should be glad to get any flights in at all and shouldnt waste them biting the hand that feeds him. He should only need to take control to do demos for your benefit or for landings and stuff when youre still under 5 hours or so.

[C-GGGQ]

Communications about being clear. What should you say? Exactly what your concerns are. And that instead of him having little temper tantrums he should simply explain clearly what should be done differently so that youre able to learn something. I might also remind hes a little xxx hour wonder who should be glad to get any flights in at all and shouldnt waste them biting the hand that feeds him. He should only need to take control to do demos for your benefit or for landings and stuff when youre still under 5 hours or so.

HA!! you know how many 20 hour pilots have tried to plow me into the ground?? Only have to touch the controls when the student is under 5 hours. you're joking right?

[canadapilot924]

Agreed GGGQ! As for the student being the boss...students wouldn't learn anything if we sat there blowing smoke up their arse! Not that that's an excuse to be impolite, but sometimes we have to make use of the "intensity" principle to make sure important points are remembered!
You say that the instructor was irritable... a long hot day instructing can take it's toll, but perhaps you're being over-sensitive? Had you come prepared for the flight with your assigned reading done? It can be very frustrating for instructors if students turn up unprepared without any studying done and then expect to go and have a productive flight...this may not have been the case with you but just a thought!

[BibleMonkey]

I would be very grateful if the experienced aviators here can shed some light to the situation - ////


- got a little aggressive when he had to repeat himself in the cockpit/////
- shows impatience when I fail to recall things (e.g. pre-flight items)

/// how should I talk to him so that future lessons become more productive and safe for both of us?

Thanks!

Brandon

Well, I'm not an experienced aviator, but I do have over 10,000 hours on farm tractors, which is the same thing as an airplane. Well, except a farm tractor is heavier , don't have wings, and will get your barley planted way evener than an aeroplane-but they're more or less just as noisy...

Where was I ? Oh yeah-the best thing to do is what my instructor done...you know behind the seat there is that little stick to measure fuel? Well there's room for a two-by four in that pouch.

When I screwed up...didn't listen...didn't read up ahead like I was supposed to-the instructor would smack me right between the eyes with the two by four, ask "Okay, I have yer attention now? I said cut throttle, carb heat, set attitude, and SIXTY FIVE mph glide, you $#@!retarded f&**%$! mule!

worked like a charm. Hope this helps. ( try to get him to use a sanded two-by four, not rough lumber, those splinters are a bitch).

[C-GGGQ]

It can be very frustrating for instructors if students turn up unprepared without any studying done and then expect to go and have a productive flight...this may not have been the case with you but just a thought!

Student turns up unprepared I don't take him flying plain and simple. My instructor wouldn't have stood for it and neither will I. If you want me to teach you you better be ready to be taught

[canadapilot924]

Same as when i was training GGGQ! unfortunately some of don't get paid for ground briefs and so can't afford to be too selective in refusing flights! Gotta pay those bills still! Sorry to hijack this thread Brandon...

[C-GOYR]

At cykz I happened to have one of if not the best instructor in my opinion…Doug Powell. He’s honest, straight up and doesn’t sugar coat anything. On the slow flight lesson I wasn’t prepared…we went up he noticed and tried his best but I wasn’t grasping it. Totally my fault and on the walk back to dispatch I apologize profusely because I knew I disappointed him and more importantly I disappointed myself. He took me aside and in true fashion he said….hey don’t kick yourself in the ass…you’ll have bad days…don’t dwell on it..correct it. My instructor has high expectations and I’m sure your instructor does of you too.

Regardless of whose fault it is or if he was a little ticked…remember he’s only trying to make you grasp the lesson. I’m not saying to go and apologize, that’s your call but keep in mind if you don’t get it chances are you’ll have to pay again to fly the lesson. Maybe he's trying to save you some money...who knows.

Sorry, but I might have hijacked your thread.
I apologize

[square]

HA!! you know how many 20 hour pilots have tried to plow me into the ground?? Only have to touch the controls when the student is under 5 hours. you're joking right?

If you couldn't talk your grandmother through flying a 172, well, you might want to improve your communication skills. I guided a preacher lady a whole leg all the way down to the ground once when I chartered 172s, on her first time in the aircraft and we had a pleasant flight.

[C-GGGQ]

Most of my students couldn't speak english

[visual approach]

If you couldn't talk your grandmother through flying a 172, well, you might want to improve your communication skills. I guided a preacher lady a whole leg all the way down to the ground once when I chartered 172s, on her first time in the aircraft and we had a pleasant flight.

Don't forget everyone has different capabilities. Some students just get it and become proficient quite quickly while others learn slower or just don't have the hand eye co-ordination.

Not every student learns at the same pace.

[hairdo]

HA!! you know how many 20 hour pilots have tried to plow me into the ground?? Only have to touch the controls when the student is under 5 hours. you're joking right?

If you couldn't talk your grandmother through flying a 172, well, you might want to improve your communication skills. I guided a preacher lady a whole leg all the way down to the ground once when I chartered 172s, on her first time in the aircraft and we had a pleasant flight.

Yes you talked her down. But after 20hours of flying you shouldn't be still talking your students down, and they will still try to plow it into the ground every once in a while.

And it is extremely annoying when a student shows up unprepared. They may as well just give you the finger and tell you they don't give a sh*t. Although that's not always the case if they are busy, but it still feels that way. I just can the flight when they do that. It's a waste of my time and their's if we go flying.

Communications about being clear. What should you say? Exactly what your concerns are. And that instead of him having little temper tantrums he should simply explain clearly what should be done differently so that youre able to learn something. I might also remind hes a little xxx hour wonder who should be glad to get any flights in at all and shouldnt waste them biting the hand that feeds him. He should only need to take control to do demos for your benefit or for landings and stuff when youre still under 5 hours or so.

From this comment, I'm going to take the jump and say you've never instructed before. You weren't in the instructor's shoes, you don't know what was happening during (or before) the flight, or how long of a day it was, and you sure as heck don't know if he was a 200hr wonder or not. And like the original poster said, they had had a long day, so they're probably both tired. In case you haven't noticed before, most people get cranky and are very easily agitated when they are tired/hungry. Ease up a bit and give the instructor a bit of slack.

If it continues, then there's something wrong, but talk to him/her. It's hard for an instructor to fix a problem if they don't realize that there is one in the first place.

[C-GGGQ]

In case you haven't noticed before, most people get cranky and are very easily agitated when they are tired/hungry

and those comfortable little plane with all their great air conditioning systems help so much too A diamond in the summer (hell diamond in the spring) is like being cooked alive. at least the 172 can take out windows or doors, makes it a bit more tolerable

[Louis]

A diamond in the summer (hell diamond in the spring) is like being cooked alive.

Is there some canopy latch mod out there to allow a partial opening of the canopy, if only during taxi?
Otherwise, I guess there could be some money to be made for a clever and not too expensive STC...

[C-GGGQ]

A diamond in the summer (hell diamond in the spring) is like being cooked alive.

Is there some canopy latch mod out there to allow a partial opening of the canopy, if only during taxi?
Otherwise, I guess there could be some money to be made for a clever and not too expensive STC...

THe 40 does that, as it opens forward, the 20 (katana/ eclipse) however opens to the rear and has no intermediate step, just very small windows

[canadapilot924]

have been doing some noisy circuits today in the 150 with the window open!

[square]

In case you haven't noticed before, most people get cranky and are very easily agitated when they are tired/hungry.

Fatigue and hypoglycemia are both serious safety issues that you're awfully cavalier to just take for granted and ignore. Your mental acuity will plummet while customers are counting on your expertise.

Is it that hard to get your 8 hours rest and pack sandwiches? I guess it's easier to make excuses.

[Louis]

THe 40 does that, as it opens forward, the 20 (katana/ eclipse) however opens to the rear and has no intermediate step, just very small windows

I'm very aware of the latter, and fondly remember being number 5 for departure in a crowded circuit with 30°C+ temps. (And starting the Continental IO-240 during the winter, also very fun to do. Those are the two faults I see on an otherwise great plane.)

I'll second square in that a hungry and tired pilot is not going to be at its best, both instruction and safety wise.

Also Brandon, do all that you can to be ready for whatever lesson has been planned. Any instructor worth the name should be telling you what's coming up, and what to study in order to prepare. I used to instruct mostly local clients who had very busy schedules, and while I can sympathize with that somewhat, I was stuck repeating things more than I would have if those students prepped themselves better. And it cost them more overall because of that.