ACPA Signs

[swervin]

http://www.financialpost.com/story.html?id=1697555

[bcflyer]

Three words, "Subject to ratification"

[spaz]

See, unlike ALPA, the ACPA membership actually gets a vote on a contract.

[Rockie]

"Still, the federal aid for the country's largest carrier will likely furrow a few brows, especially after Robert Milton, ACE Aviation chief executive, blamed the airline's current troubles on the cash management mistakes of its previous management.

The airline replaced its former CEO, Montie Brewer, in April with Calin Rovinescu, who has been trying to steer clear of another bankruptcy.

Mr. Milton said the airline losing its $400-million line of credit under Mr. Brewer and the hit it took on its fuel hedges were at least partly to blame for the airline's current cash crunch."



That's pretty rich, Milton blaming Brewer for the cash crunch after ACE bled the airline of over $2 billion in cash. The man hasn't a shred of integrity.

[JazzJetDriver]

Spaz,

Hate to burst your bubble but where do you get the notion that ALPA members do not get to vote on a contract?

Also, from what I read it does not seem that the ACPA group have much to vote on.

[disco]

See, unlike ALPA, the ACPA membership actually gets a vote on a contract.

Spaz, that is very ill-informed. The ALPA and ACPA constitutions allow for membership ratification. In both cases, it is an option for the MEC to ratify something, but in my experience that will only happen in the interest of expediency when roadshows/surveys clearly show overwhelming support.

Yes, I know that some MEC's out there have railroaded their membership in this way...but that is in no way a product of being an ALPA or ACPA member...it comes down to the MEC you have elected...you are only as good as your elected body.

This is NOT an ALPA vs ACPA distinction.

[TyrellCorp]

As such, both management and the employees have agreed to a no-strike-no-lockout mandate and will see a salary freeze with no bonuses to be paid until 2011, under the terms of the deals.

Ummmm, does this mean that the crappy Embraer pay stays? If that's the case the sandbox is starting to sound better and better everyday. Have spent too long in this business being piss poor and getting sick of it. Gonna go throw up now!

[WetJet]

I'm in an ALPA union, we just voted on a subcontact... I'm curious about where this info about us not having a vote is comming from?

At any rate, back on topic:
I think this is fantastic news in the long term for AC, congrats guys and girls.

[Jaques Strappe]

"Still, the federal aid for the country's largest carrier will likely furrow a few brows, especially after Robert Milton, ACE Aviation chief executive, blamed the airline's current troubles on the cash management mistakes of its previous management.

The airline replaced its former CEO, Montie Brewer, in April with Calin Rovinescu, who has been trying to steer clear of another bankruptcy.

Mr. Milton said the airline losing its $400-million line of credit under Mr. Brewer and the hit it took on its fuel hedges were at least partly to blame for the airline's current cash crunch."



That's pretty rich, Milton blaming Brewer for the cash crunch after ACE bled the airline of over $2 billion in cash. The man hasn't a shred of integrity.

Yeah....I find that pretty rich too. Especially since it was Milton who put Brewer in that position in the first place, after selling all the furniture and declaring that Brewer was a "genius". Milton is not one who would ever say something like " perhaps I made a mistake, making Montie the CEO of an empty house " Yet another example of the fact that Milton is not a leader and never will be.

[Airbrake]

Interview of Andy Wilson on BNN

http://watch.bnn.ca/#clip183688

[Jaques Strappe]

Gotta love this quote.........

"why don't you just refuse to fly unprofitable flights? You're the pilot! Just refuse to get on if you can't make money"

This guy is supposed to be a business journalist and in his own words, an "investor trying to make a living"?

[tonysoprano]

This is the same guy that said pilots should get payed the same as city bus drivers. There's a few choice names I could call this guy. Bonehead? Yep. Asshole? Definitely. Moron? Oh yeah. I'm amazed at how pilots are supposed to have the utmost professionalism and yet the media and financial experts can get away with such stupidity.

[countryhick]

I would love to be paid as much as some of those city bus drivers........

[Glen Quagmire]

The guy is a typical Friedmanite union and labour hater, smug and condescending. But he's fat, bald and clearly a douche so who cares. A. Wilson certainly didn't fill me with confidence though, quite unimpressive, as is ACPA by the way.

[spaz]

Did the ALPA membership get to vote on the 2003 CCAA contract?

[Rockie]

Did the ALPA membership get to vote on the 2003 CCAA contract?

Which company are you talking about?

[Rockie]

The guy is a typical Friedmanite union and labour hater, smug and condescending. But he's fat, bald and clearly a douche so who cares. A. Wilson certainly didn't fill me with confidence though, quite unimpressive, as is ACPA by the way.

As of the last few weeks I am very impressed with ACPA. Due solely to their diligence and willingness to do Air Canada managements job for them, there is now a plan (ACPA's plan pretty much to the letter) to carry the airline forward. Air Canada's future is owed to them and the other employee groups who supported them, not the overvalued brain trust actually charged with running this company.

[netty]

No one has seen the details yet, but it doesn't sound like the "plan" ACPA presented. The MEC signed a clause stating they would not speak ill of this TA when presenting it to the membership...Air Canada pilots should read the union forum...

[Rockie]

No one has seen the details yet, but it doesn't sound like the "plan" ACPA presented. The MEC signed a clause stating they would not speak ill of this TA when presenting it to the membership...Air Canada pilots should read the union forum...

From what I've read in the papers and reported by ACPA it sounds exactly like what they've stated in the roadshow. Also, how do you know ACPA signed a clause that they would not speak ill of the TA? Heard it from somebody on the ACPA forum perhaps?

[yyz monkey]

The MEC signed a clause stating they would not speak ill of this TA when presenting it to the membership.

IAM has the same clause. Both them and the Company are to take the TA to the membership and recommend ratification. Wouldn't be surprised if the same clause was in the other four TAs.

[Rockie]

A "tentative agreement" by definition means the union agrees to the terms but it has to be ratified by the membership. It would be very strange indeed if the union agreed to something and then turned around and recommended that the membership turn it down don't you think?

[Rockie]

Netty

Got your PM, but for some reason it won't let me reply. I must be doing something wrong. Anyway, I agree with you.

[Glen Quagmire]

Rockie, seeing as ACPA has apparently achieved it's goals why all the madness and paranoia in the ACPA forum? Our elected members have achieved what was presented in the roadshows and we should finally see major reforms at the airline yet I wouldn't be surprised to see the 9 "yea" members hanging from their respective nutsacks in front of T1, strung up by the people who elected them for doing what they said they would do.

I just don't get the mentality of pilots, we are almost doomed to fail. I get the feeling that a lot of guys want CCAA again just to get some sort of revenge on Milton, never mind what might happen to us as a group in another bankruptcy. This type of nonsense sent Victor Li packing last time on his "slow boat back to China" and we all know how well that worked out for us.

My reference to ACPA being disappointing was in terms of their lack of clear communication throughout this process. They seem to like treating the members like mushrooms.

[Jaques Strappe]

Rockie, seeing as ACPA has apparently achieved it's goals why all the madness and paranoia in the ACPA forum? Our elected members have achieved what was presented in the roadshows and we should finally see major reforms at the airline yet I wouldn't be surprised to see the 9 "yea" members hanging from their respective nutsacks in front of T1, strung up by the people who elected them for doing what they said they would do.

I just don't get the mentality of pilots, we are almost doomed to fail. I get the feeling that a lot of guys want CCAA again just to get some sort of revenge on Milton, never mind what might happen to us as a group in another bankruptcy. This type of nonsense sent Victor Li packing last time on his "slow boat back to China" and we all know how well that worked out for us.

My reference to ACPA being disappointing was in terms of their lack of clear communication throughout this process. They seem to like treating the members like mushrooms.

+1

[Rockie]

Rockie, seeing as ACPA has apparently achieved it's goals why all the madness and paranoia in the ACPA forum? Our elected members have achieved what was presented in the roadshows and we should finally see major reforms at the airline yet I wouldn't be surprised to see the 9 "yea" members hanging from their respective nutsacks in front of T1, strung up by the people who elected them for doing what they said they would do.

I just don't get the mentality of pilots, we are almost doomed to fail. I get the feeling that a lot of guys want CCAA again just to get some sort of revenge on Milton, never mind what might happen to us as a group in another bankruptcy. This type of nonsense sent Victor Li packing last time on his "slow boat back to China" and we all know how well that worked out for us.

My reference to ACPA being disappointing was in terms of their lack of clear communication throughout this process. They seem to like treating the members like mushrooms.

Glen

Your second paragraph answered the questions posed in the first. There is so much anger and mistrust that we will kill ourselves for the opportunity to spit in Milton's eye. Pilots, and Air Canada pilots in particular aren't always the best at understanding the big picture when it comes to things like this. That's why we elect people into our union executive that we feel we can trust to take care of our interests. A lot of times there cannot be clear communication to the membership due to confidentiality conditions, or just a really dynamic situation. In this case I thought the union stated very clearly what they were going to do and then they went out and did it.

If there is one thing you should know if you've been in this industry any length of time, pilots are never happy and love to complain. The whining jokes have a big element of truth to them.