Way up north

[mathewc]

I was thinking for my 300nm XC that I just knock off a whole whack of PIC time and take a trip with one or both parents way up north to say, Cambridge Bay. Realizing that compasses don't really work to well up there, what equipment will I have to have on board to find a bearing. Will a GPS cover it?

Also, what other issues might I expect from flying way up there in a 172? What month of the year would be ideal? Any info would be greatly appreciated. I would really like to expand my experience from flying in southern Ontario. Thanks!!

[Liquid Charlie]

Southern Ontario - to Cam Bay -- ya that's a little more than 300nm -- better have lots of time since you will always be dealing with wx and as far as cam bay -- gps and an a good adf will work well enough to give you a true heading but I would say you need to organize fuel since likely only drums available and be prepared to by the whole drum 405L since partial drums no one wants - not a lot between Yellowknife and Cambridge - if you are serious these are the guys to make arrangements with for information and fuel http://www.adlairaviation.com/

First part of August to middle of August -- once you approach September it could snow --

[Rudy]

I would say you need to organize fuel since likely only drums available and be prepared to by the whole drum 405L since partial drums no one wants

Do they really use drums that large or typo?

[seniorpumpkin]

I remember doing my 300 mile trip to Thompson MB in a cherokee. It was great, I got to see the north (granted YTH isn't actually that far north), got to meet a chief pilot, which eventually led to a job, and got the 300 mile trip out of the way too. I'm glad I did the trip but in retrospect it was a bit riskier than the average XC trip.
If your engine stops in the north and you only have one of them, your life is about to suck. You need to be very well prepared. When I did my trip it was winter time which made the weather more predictable, but the cold does add significant risk in terms of engine care and also it can make survival more challenging. Fortunately I have done tons of winter camping, so I packed as if I would be doing a hiking trip in -40. You need to have a very well stocked survival kit, but most importantly you need to know how to use that kit to survive in the wilderness. Skills like starting a fire, killing small animals, and eating the right kind of berries are pretty helpful. The other thing you want nailed down is a way for someone to find you! A flight plan is helpful but I would also recommend this little unit based on friends who have one: http://www.findmespot.ca/en/
As far as using a compass goes, a good GPS is pretty helpful, but I'm going to deffer navigation issues to someone who actually has experience navigating up north.
If you want some more insight into what happens on a bad day flying up north you should watch a movie called "Snow Walker". It's based on a Farly Mowatt? book the title of which I cannot remember, about a float plane that goes down in the territories. It will open your eyes to some of the realities of flying in the middle of nowhere in Canada.
All that being said I would for sure encourage you to take this trip, it'll be a way more interesting way to get your commercial license!
Isn't a 45 gallon drum only 205 liters of fuel? Boy it's been a while since I've used drums!!

[EastCoaster]

The drums are 45 Gallons... so... typo... but it would be quite the adventure for a inexperienced pilot. Great experience but you'd need to get all your ducks in a row. Good Luck... and take lots of pictures for us.

[Bushav8er]

Keep in mind that those fuel drums are likely filled with Jet these days...AVGAS is getting hard to find.

[black hole]

Definitly: call ahead to make arrangements for the fuel. Make sure you take good survival gear; as when you get above the tree line there is very little to make shelter and even less to eat! Unless you are the meal!!!???

BH

[mathewc]

Thanks for the info. I am now considering less north and more east though. I think that trip might be a bit beyond my comfort level at this point. Definitely a real consideration in the future though!

[Nordo]

Yes...very ambitious!! For the sake of this post, I have to assume you dont have any experience in the northern parts of Canada, and you should know that these places are not very forgiving....not impossible by any stretch just unforgiving. Packing a small plane with the necessary survival gear and equipment (ie. fuel pump for your drums as they don't have attached pumps and are a bit heavy for the free pour funnel idea) would take volume away from allowable fuel and would further increase distance between alternate options. Places to stay and eat are very expensive and usually in demand in the summer months with exploration, mining, and survey crews that take advantage of the day light hours and human like temps. Weather isn't as stable in the summer and GFA's are a best guess type of forecast, making for some unexpected changes in your flight plan (at times). Like mentioned above, Jet fuel is the gas of choice and seeing a piston up there is getting more and more rare.

I'm not saying don't do it, but it would be an expensive outing for 300nm experience. The north isn't just a distance, its a new world that doesn't have the radar coverage or radio coverage that you would like to expect from populated areas. And I would bet your flight instructor hasn't covered much of what you will encounter. I might lose the parents and see if you could find another pilot with some northern time to take their seats.

I would get some busy airport environment experience down in the states, or across Canada first, then once you have your commercial license, find a company that works in remote places and let them teach you from their experience...and with their Visa card!!

[sakism]

I flew from Calgary to Dawson City for my CPL x-country. Most I learned in my whole licence. Spent a week camping around the Yukon at various airports.

While it is not Cambridge Bay, Churchill might be a satisfactory middle level trip. Not quite north of the tree line, but definitely more north than south in everything but latitude. Reasonably populated along the route, Avgas available (although not at this exact moment - see NOTAMs), beluga whales in the summer, polar bears in the fall.

[PanEuropean]

Realizing that compasses don't really work to well up there, what equipment will I have to have on board to find a bearing. Will a GPS cover it?

Hello Mathew:

A GPS can give you accurate track information when you are moving, but it can't take the place of the (unreliable) compass when you are operating in the polar regions.

What you need (and most likely already have) on your aircraft is a directional gyro. If you have a fairly simple aircraft, then the only input to the DG is what you provide via the knob used to set it. If you have a more sophisticated avionics suite in which a magnetometer is used to slave the DG to magnetic heading, then you will need to move the switch from 'slaved' to 'free' mode and manually adjust the DG to display the correct heading.

Be aware that many GPS units (both handheld and panel mount) have a configuration choice that allows you to have the aircraft track (the track made good) displayed in either magnetic or true. Chances are that you would want to have 'true' displayed if you are working in an area of compass unreliability.

I have absolutely zero experience working in areas of compass unreliability, so, the above is about all I can say with any confidence. We have quite a few forum members who live and work in the far north, perhaps they can provide some additional information for you.

Michael

[lilfssister]

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=55556

[sakism]

What you need (and most likely already have) on your aircraft is a directional gyro. If you have a fairly simple aircraft, then the only input to the DG is what you provide via the knob used to set it. If you have a more sophisticated avionics suite in which a magnetometer is used to slave the DG to magnetic heading, then you will need to move the switch from 'slaved' to 'free' mode and manually adjust the DG to display the correct heading.

We never take our HSI out of slave mode. Haven't had a problem doing this yet - simply have to add/subtract variation where required.

A GPS can give you accurate track information when you are moving, but it can't take the place of the (unreliable) compass when you are operating in the polar regions.

Be aware that many GPS units (both handheld and panel mount) have a configuration choice that allows you to have the aircraft track (the track made good) displayed in either magnetic or true. Chances are that you would want to have 'true' displayed if you are working in an area of compass unreliability.

GPS works great. Make sure that your destinations are in the unit before you go. Really makes no difference what the HI/Compass/HSI says (True vs magnetic, reliable vs. unreliable) as long as you have some way of determining that you are going where you want to go. Having said that - GPS units might fail so carry two.

[groundtoflightdeck]

To be honest to get to YCB in a C172 might be a real challenge fuel-wise. These communties are few and far between- coming from ON you would be entering the arctic from Churchill- from there 250NM to Rankin- then 360NM to Gjoa Haven and 207NM to Cambridge from there. And there is nothing in between for en route contingency.

[sakism]

Could throw in Baker Lake between Rankin and Gjoa - but like someone else said - arrange fuel ahead of time.

[Bushav8er]

I am now considering less north and more east though. I think that trip might be a bit beyond my comfort level at this point.

East? For a fun trip that verges on the edge of your original plan (kinda), but should be within your comfort level, maybe try Goose Bay or NW Newfoundland.

Plan well and have fun.

[ahramin]

While personally I think it's nuts to go north rather than south, I do need to address the compass issue.

A GPS and an ADF are the most reliable way to set your DG in the NDA. Astro compasses are great but if it's cloudy, they're useless. With a GPS and ADF all you need to do is tune and identify the NDB on your ADF, get your current bearing to it from your GPS, and set your DG to line up the ADF needle with your current bearing. If you have a fixed card ADF then you turn the card to line up your ADF needle with your current bearing and then set your DG to read the same as your fixed card.

You also need to adjust your DG for convergence.

Lastly, most DGs tend to be consistent about how much they precess. Keep track of how much yours precesses per hour and then once you get into the NDA you will be able to correct for this every fifteen minutes. Just doing the last two you should be able to complete a 2 hour flight with your DG within 5 degrees of your actual heading, without using GPS or astro compass.

[meflypretty]

Go south. That way when you are flying into Cambridge Bay for a living you will at least have a fond memory of somewhere else.

[AntiNakedMan]

While it is not Cambridge Bay, Churchill might be a satisfactory middle level trip. Not quite north of the tree line, but definitely more north than south in everything but latitude. Reasonably populated along the route, Avgas available (although not at this exact moment - see NOTAMs), beluga whales in the summer, polar bears in the fall.

Churchill is a cool spot for sure. I heard a rumour that soon Shell will no longer be selling Avgas at all in Churchill.....

[KAG]

MathewC
All very good points but I have to add if your going to fly north, do NOT do it at night. Infact stay way from sparsely settled areas at night period. Given you don’t have an IFR and if you find yourself in a black hole area you might as well be IMC.
I forbid my students from doing it, and will try to dissuade any PPL/CPL student from trying it.
Day time have at it!!!! Get a hand held GPS, a Costco sized can of bug spray and have fun.

[sheephunter]

Churchill or even Moosonee from out of S. Ont. would give you a lot of "semi-remote" experience and never be that far from "civilization" following Hwy 11 N to Cochrane and then up from there. Fuel is really becoming a problem though, as discussed a bunch already. Make sure it is actually available in any form before you strike out. You will learn what your own comfort levels are at this point in time as well let you know early in your career if bush flying is even an option. Just plan for it to take longer than you think and remember that in the north, time really doesn't mean that much to anyone and that isn't a bad thing, just don't get in a hurry. Hope you enjoy whatever it is you decide to do. Have fun and be safe.