A time to celebrate-Bernie Madoff got 150 years

[Rockie]

Bernie Madoff got 150 years. God bless America.

[Nark]

While pedophiles, rapists and murder's get much less.

I think people can get over losing their life savings a lot faster than losing something much closer to them.

[grimey]

While pedophiles, rapists and murder's get much less.

I think people can get over losing their life savings a lot faster than losing something much closer to them.

Dr. Cameron: Black defendants are ten times more likely to get a death sentence than white.
Dr. Foreman: Doesn’t mean we need to get rid of the death penalty – we just need to kill more white people

I can agree with the 150 years he got. I just wish more people got the same.

[shannon]

Yeah, it seems awfully strange when people compare him to Hitler when all he did was rob from primarily greedy people. If greed wasn't present on behalf of the victims then there would be no victims.

There's a saying in the financial industry:"Pigs get slaughtered. Oink. Oink."

The crime he committed was in making many people look foolish, thats why they hate him so much, so for this he gets more than a murderer or rapist.

[Cat Driver]

Yeah, it seems awfully strange when people compare him to Hitler when all he did was rob from primarily greedy people

.

You don't believe people should invest their money to try and make more?

You probably wouldn't like me then because I'm really greedy and charge as much as I can get for my time in aviation, in fact I won't even leave home for less than $500.00 per day base pay.

[shannon]

Cat, you're a funny little kitten. What Madoff did was prey on the stupid and greedy. The business model he offered them was retarded. If I told you I sent one of those Nigerian Scam artists my money would you think it stupid, of course you would.
Nobody was investing with bernie madoff, they were speculating. There is an enormous difference.

By the way I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.

[b1ngnx33]

http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsN ... 8520090629

Error? Bulls***t. You knew what you were doing.

You accidently stole 65 billion? Wow.

You did it all by yourself? WHAT! All by your lonesome?

Your either an effing genius, who forgot to get out of the country before the trial, or your a liar.

I don't know how one person handles 65 billion dollars. I'm pretty sure you need at least another person with

accounting/law/financial skills to handle that kind of money.

Maybe I'm wrong, since I've never handled 65 billion in the real world.

My totally ignorant opinion about Madoff is simple.

He's a liar, and he wasn't working alone.

Someone, or a group of people, are very very rich.

Watch him get out of jail in 3 years for "good" behaviour.

Heh heh.

[Hotel Tango]

Cat, you're a funny little kitten. What Madoff did was prey on the stupid and greedy. The business model he offered them was retarded. If I told you I sent one of those Nigerian Scam artists my money would you think it stupid, of course you would.
Nobody was investing with bernie madoff, they were speculating. There is an enormous difference.

By the way I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.

I think you're a little quick in calling people names and blaming the victims for all this. I'm sure you're WAY too smart to ever get caught making a mistake.

Bernie Madoff was a very well known and established fixture in the investment world. He'd been around for a long time and was very successful. He was the Chairman of the NASDAQ, he was a well known philanthropist. I don't see how hard it is to believe that people trusted him to invest their money for what was essentially reasonable returns. He never promised anything too far fetched.

It's one thing to not feel too bad for the Kevin Bacon's of the world who, although lost a lot of money, could very easily make it back between him and his famous wife with a few movies or tv shows. But to blame people who lost their retirements and life savings with no real hope of making it back in their lifetimes and then call them names... that's low.

[Rockie]

Cat, you're a funny little kitten. What Madoff did was prey on the stupid and greedy. The business model he offered them was retarded. If I told you I sent one of those Nigerian Scam artists my money would you think it stupid, of course you would.
Nobody was investing with bernie madoff, they were speculating. There is an enormous difference.

By the way I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.

Do you have an RRSP? How about a savings account? GIC? Maybe a company pension plan?

If so, then you can count yourself among the greedy people simply trying to save a little money for when they are too old to work. Those are the people Madoff stole billions of dollars from.

[shannon]

Rockie, to answer your question, I use self directed RRSPs and invest directly in the market using a mixture of technical and fundamental analysis. I research and research some more before I invest, note I said invest not speculate. If somebody tells you they have a "secret trading system" that guarantees double digit returns then you should run for the hills. There's another saying that goes something like " A fool and his money will soon part". Every couple of years this happens in the markets, not on this scale of course, nonetheless it happens. How many people went crazy on Bre-X a few years ago. Do your research or don't invest.

but Stupid is as stupid does.

Forbes Magazine: "It's virtually impossible to have returns like Madoff reported, and it should have been a major warning signal."

Is Bernie Madoff a crook, of course. Is he equivalent to a murderer or rapist, not even close.




http://www.forbes.com/2008/12/12/madoff ... s_inl.html

[Rockie]

Rockie, to answer your question, I use self directed RRSPs and invest directly in the market using a mixture of technical and fundamental analysis. I research and research some more before I invest, note I said invest not speculate. If somebody tells you they have a "secret trading system" that guarantees double digit returns then you should run for the hills. There's another saying that goes something like " A fool and his money will soon part". Every couple of years this happens in the markets, not on this scale of course, nonetheless it happens. How many people went crazy on Bre-X a few years ago. Do your research or don't invest.

but Stupid is as stupid does.

Forbes Magazine: "It's virtually impossible to have returns like Madoff reported, and it should have been a major warning signal."

Is Bernie Madoff a crook, of course. Is he equivalent to a murderer or rapist, not even close.




http://www.forbes.com/2008/12/12/madoff ... s_inl.html

So you're an investment snob who sneers at people who don't have your knowledge? That's what professionals are for I thought, and plenty of professionals were fooled by Madoff and put their own clients money into it. I don't think anyone on here equated him to a rapist or murderer so I'm a little confused why you bring it up. He did however destroy the financial future of many thousands of people who may have to eat dog food in their twilight years. How would you feel if one of them was your mother?

[Cat Driver]

He did however destroy the financial future of many thousands of people who may have to eat dog food in their twilight years. How would you feel if one of them was your mother?

This funny little kitten is waiting for your answer shannon.

[shannon]

Cat I'll answer your question again by saying that I absolutly think that people should invest not speculate.

If he had robbed my mother? First my mother wouldn't be stupid enough to fall for such a scam. She's a very conservative investor. I would still hold the same opinion. He robbed from her, but 150 years when pedophiles, rapists and murderers get far less says a great deal about our society. We value money more than people.

Many of the victims who spoke at the sentencing and in the previous days specifically referred to Madoff as a second Hitler.

Madoff has become a lightening rod for the greed and/or ignorance that overtook a great many people in the last few years. As if sentencing a seventy year old man to 150 years is anything but trying to please the masses. We need someone to blame because if we can't have an individual to blame then we make have to look at ourselves or the system. And we certainly don't want to do that.

[shannon]

The way I look at it is this. Most people on this forum I'm sure at some point have considered purchasing an airplane. If they think seriously about it they will research the very idea first. Then they will research the carrying costs, the overhead, insurances, analyze the risks, then research the type of aircraft. Many times they will have an AME look the plane over, check the logbooks. Do they simply believe what the salesman is saying, I hope not.

But when many people invest how many even take the time to read the full prospectus, have an accountant look at it, research the underlying assets, the economy in general and the individuals selling the investment product. If you don't do the full research your just speculating and thats nothing more than low risk gambling. It would take a few days work but what is that when your talking about your retirement or life savings.

If I bought a plane tomorrow over the phone without doing any research, sight unseen, jumped in flew off and crashed because it was a piece of shit with a nice paint job. I'm pretty sure you would think I was stupid.

[TG]

shannon, reading you it looks like you have never been fooled or robbed of anything during all your life.

The way I look at it is this. Most people on this forum I'm sure at some point have considered purchasing an airplane. If they think seriously about it they will research the very idea first. Then they will research the carrying costs, the overhead, insurances, analyze the risks, then research the type of aircraft. Many times they will have an AME look the plane over, check the logbooks. Do they simply believe what the salesman is saying, I hope not.

You are right and that mainly because it is our area of 'expertise'.
We will still have to trust our AME before buying our plane unless we find the time to get an Engineer's license.
Or we will have to trust what people will say about him/her, etc...

In investment I'm truly someone that you would call stupid.
Stupid of relying to 'professionals' (not just the salesman) who are supposed to know what they are doing in their area of expertise.
Hence me leaving all my retirement fund (not that much by the way) to the hand of 'experts' being from the bank or elsewhere. And I'm not calling retirement fund a simple bank account with ING.
Never mind their expertise and my trust toward them, everything shrieked by 35% or so!
Still peanuts compared to those who lost all they have.

What I mean is sometime you cannot do everything all by yourself and will have to rely to something else to get things going. I'm sure that what a lot of people/companies did.
They relied to professionals investor for their investments.
Professionals which in turn went to what you call this retarded Madoff business model.

As hard to say or to believe, this man did a lot more damage to our society in general than what a single pedophile, rapist or murderer would do.
If someone would go after my family that would be me and people around me that would be greatly affected.
Put a couple of more subtle Madoff and things as we know and take for granted could collapse pretty quickly.

And we would need a lot of Narks around with loaded guns to stop the anarchy

[Rockie]

The way I look at it is this. Most people on this forum I'm sure at some point have considered purchasing an airplane. If they think seriously about it they will research the very idea first. Then they will research the carrying costs, the overhead, insurances, analyze the risks, then research the type of aircraft. Many times they will have an AME look the plane over, check the logbooks. Do they simply believe what the salesman is saying, I hope not.

But when many people invest how many even take the time to read the full prospectus, have an accountant look at it, research the underlying assets, the economy in general and the individuals selling the investment product. If you don't do the full research your just speculating and thats nothing more than low risk gambling. It would take a few days work but what is that when your talking about your retirement or life savings.

If I bought a plane tomorrow over the phone without doing any research, sight unseen, jumped in flew off and crashed because it was a piece of shit with a nice paint job. I'm pretty sure you would think I was stupid.

Tell me shannon, do you go to a doctor for health issues or do you read up on the internet and treat yourself? Personally I go to a doctor because they are the professionals who have the training, inherent understanding of the subject, and do that kind of stuff full time so should be much better at it than I would be. It's the same reason I use an investment advisor. Don't you think you're being just a little bit pompous and elitist about this?

[shannon]

Rockie, the problem is that most people don't go to professionals they go to sales people who work on some sort of commission or kickback. A fee only based certified financial planner is the minimum that a person should expect, instead they take advice from salespeople, their friends and co-workers on financial matters. It costs nothing but a little time to do a very small amount of research on financials. If the person isn't capable of doing th research then go see a true professional who specializes in wealth management, one who is educated and experienced.

I have former classmates who work as Financial Planners, they charge between $200 and $300 an hour. Many people come in and are shocked at their price for advice. This advice comes as the result of a four year Commerce Degree, and MBA a CSC, CFP and CIM designation, years of experience and constant training in wealth creation. Instead they go to a salesman working at some chain operation who sells them on some crap because it makes him money.

They were advising last spring to their clients to get out of the equity market, but most stayed in because they knew better. One client actually dropped them as advisors. He rode the market down, then sued because his advisors hadn't pushed him hard enough to get out.

Obviously I have a different opinion than some of you, I believe in personal responsiblity and in taking control of things that are important to my future. If something sounds to good to be true....

[Rockie]

Why is this forum filled with people who won't answer a simple yes or no question? I asked if you see a doctor for health care or do you do it yourself. If your answer is yes then you have just sunk your own argument.

[Hotel Tango]

I have former classmates who work as Financial Planners, they charge between $200 and $300 an hour. Many people come in and are shocked at their price for advice. This advice comes as the result of a four year Commerce Degree, and MBA a CSC, CFP and CIM designation, years of experience and constant training in wealth creation. Instead they go to a salesman working at some chain operation who sells them on some crap because it makes him money...

So I should go with someone who's made a career in finance with a good reputation?
Someone who founded a successful firm that has been operating since 1960?
Someone who has ties with top government regulators?
Someone who was the chairman of one of the worlds major stock exchanges?

Nah, can I have your friends number instead?

[shannon]

Hotel Tango, I give up. You're right you should defiantly go with Bernie Madoff.

[Hotel Tango]

Shannon,

I'm just trying to get you to see the otherside of this. Instead of just calling the victims names and placing the blame on them, I was HOPING you'd be able to see how they could have trusted him.

Can you even admit that he had better credentials and experience than your $200/hour friends? He wasn't some cheap salesman in a cubicle.

HT

[JakeYYZ]

Hotel Tango, I give up. You're right you should defiantly go with Bernie Madoff.

OK this is the last time I am explaining .........it’s a 1% a month, no volatility, split strike strategy. Got it? Let’s go get some hookers and blow.

[2R]

What he done was not speculation or investment, but theft.
Until all the thieves are caught and punished the slide into depression will continue