This is a separate thread so I don't hijack Cat Driver's Nanaimo 1000' displaced threshold thread.
How many of you ALWAYS go to the very end of the runway before taking off?
It is definitely safer to have as much pavement ahead of you when taking off. It may tie up traffic, but it's safer- no doubt of that. The extra 20 or 1000 feet could make the difference between running off the runway or not during an engine failure.
A few times where I've had the choice, I didn't get right to the end of the runway. Was I unsafe? Was I demonstrating good or bad airmanship?
Pretty much always. Having experienced an engine failure on takeoff before, I like to give myself as many options as possible. Also, many airports around here don't give you too many options for a forced landing straight ahead due to the water or mountain hazards.
I am not going to backtrack to use the whole 12,675 feet of 16-34 at YYC in my Cessna; but for shorter runways and a couple minutes of backtrack time--why not?
I can't give you a yes or no answer. I take into account many factors before making the decision, type of airplane, length of rwy, weather, altitude, type of airspace.
Would I taxi a 172 an extra 6000' to get to the end of a 12,000' rwy, heck no. High, hot, and heavy in a twin sure would.
You need to weigh the risks/benefits before making the decision.
Lurch
---------- ADS -----------
Take my love
Take my land
Take me where I cannot stand
I don't care
I'm still free
You cannot take the sky from me
I think it would depend greatly on a) the type of aircraft, b) the length of runway remaining (from where the taxiway enters it) and c) weather and other conditions.
I don't think a pilot flying a 172 from only 8000' of a 10,000' runway needs to backtrack.
But what about from 1500' of a 2000' runway? Is that extra 500' important enough in the event of an emergency to warrant back-tracking as a good habit?
Also, on a similar subject ... if your local airport has more than one runway (your typical commonwealth air training plan layout, for example), should the active runway be the one that's most into the wind; or is it better to have a wicked crosswind on the longest runway because some get scared by flying off anything under 4000'?
Edit: add to the first paragraph d) nature of the airport surroundings.
Anyone ever see an aircraft that's done a forced landing into a vineyard, for example? Aircraft aluminum doesn't stand up too well to wooden posts and tensioned wires.
They say you can't put a price on someone’s life. Apparently some on here feel it's worth saving an extra .1 taxi time.
Can a single engine piston take off in less then 8000 – yes. Are you going to miss that runway behind you if/when you lose that one, very used engine? oh yes.
I'm glad both times I lost mine I had a mile ahead of me, the third time I had aititude to turn around.
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The feet you step on today might be attached to the ass you're kissing tomorrow.
Chase lifestyle not metal.
KAG wrote:They say you can't put a price on someone’s life. Apparently some on here feel it's worth saving an extra .1 taxi time.
Who said that??
KAG wrote:Can a single engine piston take off in less then 8000 – yes. Are you going to miss that runway behind you if/when you lose that one, very used engine? oh yes.
I'm glad both times I lost mine I had a mile ahead of me, the third time I had aititude to turn around.
Ok say you taxi all the way to the end of the 8000' rwy, you get airborne in 700' , your engine quits at 500' AGL sorry but unless you have a 3 mile long rwy you will not make it back onto the rwy.
Once you get a certain height above the rwy the extra length is useless.
Lurch
---------- ADS -----------
Take my love
Take my land
Take me where I cannot stand
I don't care
I'm still free
You cannot take the sky from me
Home airport is 2100' so I always do full backtrack but when I am either at Collingwood or Lake Simcoe (~5000') I don't usually backtrack the full way. I go around 3000-3500.
Maybe I should?
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She’s built like a Steakhouse, but she handles like a Bistro.
Let's kick the tires, and light the fires.... SHIT! FIRE! EMERGENCY CHECKLIST!
Use all the runway you are 100% positive will allow you the best options in the event your engine quits based on all circumstances for that airport and conditions..
---------- ADS -----------
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
Lurch wrote:Ok say you taxi all the way to the end of the 8000' rwy, you get airborne in 700' , your engine quits at 500' AGL sorry but unless you have a 3 mile long rwy you will not make it back onto the rwy.
It will help for that engine failure at 100 feet and that alone makes it worth it. At 500ft, you have other options, which might include turning around to land back on the runway or at least make the infield if there are no options ahead.
Someone else said...
It is better to go through the fence at 30 mph than impact the ground at 100.
Cat Driver wrote:Use all the runway you are 100% positive will allow you the best options in the event your engine quits based on all circumstances for that airport and conditions..
I've done intersection departures in both GA and transport category aircraft. I'm a firm believer in knowing what your aircraft is capable of doing for you. That often means getting into the performance charts.
x-wind wrote:Can a 172 turn around on a calm day at 500agl
To return to the runway, yes it can provided you make the initial turn as tight as possible without losing control of the aircraft. This reduces the number of degrees to turn from the 270+90 found in the ASL to around 225+45 and makes the lower turn (to line up with the runway) less demanding. Under extreme calm conditions you might wind up a bit short of the runway and with a strong wind howling down the pipe you might wind up overshooting.
The best thing to do is take an EMT course and you will see how these scenarios can play out...
x-wind wrote:Can a 172 turn around on a calm day at 500agl
To return to the runway, yes it can provided you make the initial turn as tight as possible without losing control of the aircraft.
Key words there. Lots of accidents from people trying to turn back to a runway and then stalling as they tighten their turn or try to stretch the glide to the runway instead of picking another landing area that doesn't require as much manoeuvering. Little room to recover from a stall below 500 agl!
If take-off field length requirements and net take off flight path requirements are met Im happy.Not gonna back track. In anything without certified take-off and climb performance, Im backtracking all the way...usually.
How about if you were departing from Harare in Zimbabwe in a Super Cub where the runway is fifteen thousand feet long how many of you would taxi to the end to take off?
---------- ADS -----------
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
Cat Driver wrote:How about if you were departing from Harare in Zimbabwe in a Super Cub where the runway is fifteen thousand feet long how many of you would taxi to the end to take off?
is it +60, barometer bottemed out, with full fuel, 2 goat carcasses and a 255 lb national geographic photographer in the back seat?...lol
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"I had a pilot's breakfast ... A coffee and a piss followed by a donut and a dump." -D. Elegant
