F-22's worst enemy : rain

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b1ngnx33
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F-22's worst enemy : rain

Post by b1ngnx33 »

http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/ ... ietta.html

Yes. It is the most abundant substance on earth, besides human ego.

Fire up your super soaker 5000 guns on that plane and that F-22 has to fly home for "maintenance".

Oh come on. MILLIONS of dollars, maybe even billions, and "rain" is the biggest problem?

I'm so glad the world has its priorities straight.

Spend millions of dollars on a plane that has water problems.

Kind of reminds me of that stupid movie with Gibson in it.

Kill the superior "aliens" with water.

:P
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Hotel Tango
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Re: F-22's worst enemy : rain

Post by Hotel Tango »

I always hated that movie.

They have the technology for intergalactic travel but they could stop by a surf shop and pick up a wetsuit?
Stupid story.
M. Night Shyamalan definately peaked at The Sixth Sense.

oh yeah... the F22 thing is a problem too.
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bmc
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Re: F-22's worst enemy : rain

Post by bmc »

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bmc
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Re: F-22's worst enemy : rain

Post by HS-748 2A »

more than 30 hours of maintenance for every hour in the skies, pushing its hourly cost of flying to more than $44,000
Reminds me of the DC-4. - or the DHC-4.


:lol:
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Rockie
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Re: F-22's worst enemy : rain

Post by Rockie »

Every airplane has unforeseen problems when they enter operational use, especially ones that push the technological envelope as far ahead as this one does. The F-22 will be around for a long time and they'll have plenty of time to fix whatever crops up.
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Hedley
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Re: F-22's worst enemy : rain

Post by Hedley »

Speaking of rain ... wasn't there a B-2 crash in Guam
a year or two ago, caused by an uncontrolled pitchup
because the static system was full of water, causing
the computer to re-calibrate incorrectly?

There's a billion (or two) down the drain. IIRC there
are some pretty spectacular photos of the pilots
ejecting at just the last moment.

http://www.acc.af.mil/media/archives/st ... =123101589
Moisture in the aircraft's Port Transducer Units during air data calibration distorted the information in the bomber's air data system, causing the flight control computers to calculate an inaccurate airspeed and a negative angle of attack upon takeoff. According to the report, this caused an, "uncommanded 30 degree nose-high pitch-up on takeoff, causing the aircraft to stall and its subsequent crash."

Moisture in the PTUs, inaccurate airspeed, a negative AOA calculation and low altitude/low airspeed are substantially contributing factors in this mishap. Another substantially contributing factor was the ineffective communication of critical information regarding a suggested technique of turning on pitot heat in order to remove moisture from the PTUs prior to performing an air data calibration.
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ahramin
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Re: F-22's worst enemy : rain

Post by ahramin »

Even with all the skin problems, the F-22 is only 50% more expensive to fly that the F-15. Considering the capabilities, this doesn't look too bad. Obviously with all the advancements in aircraft design, it should be lower, not higher, but it's still affordable to operate.

It's the acquisition cost for a huge fleet of aircraft no longer relevant to today's conflicts which are the problem.
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Hedley
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Re: F-22's worst enemy : rain

Post by Hedley »

Another accounting nit which the media loves to manipulate:

Let's say the plan is to build 500 units. So, from an accounting
standpoint, you spread the cost of development and manufacturing
over 500 units, with a cost of X dollars per unit.

But then the policitians renege on the deal (surprise, surprise)
and cancel the order for the last 400 units. All of a sudden,
the units are FIVE TIMES as expensive to produce, with respect
to the costs of development and manufacturing tooling.

The press goes bananas. The price has gone through the
roof :roll: Well, it's a self-inflicted wound as far as I'm
concerned - if they had kept their word, the cost per unit
wouldn't have skyrocketed from an accounting standpoint.
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Rockie
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Re: F-22's worst enemy : rain

Post by Rockie »

ahramin wrote:Even with all the skin problems, the F-22 is only 50% more expensive to fly that the F-15. Considering the capabilities, this doesn't look too bad. Obviously with all the advancements in aircraft design, it should be lower, not higher, but it's still affordable to operate.

It's the acquisition cost for a huge fleet of aircraft no longer relevant to today's conflicts which are the problem.
What is today's conflicts, and how is the F-22 not relevant? The very presence of overwhelming air superiority kept Iraq's airforce grounded except when they flew the aircraft into Iran to protect them. Iraq did not use them to attack American ground forced, provide intelligence or provide any threat whatsoever. With the exception of a very few cases there was nothing for the Americans to shoot down, and that is the best use of force I can imagine.

The other thing to remember is that by the time tomorrow's conflict arrives, it is way too late to develop and build aircraft tailor made to fight in it.
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grimey
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Re: F-22's worst enemy : rain

Post by grimey »

What is today's conflicts, and how is the F-22 not relevant?
What conflicts today involve 2 powers with state of the art air forces on both sides? The F-15 is still capable of mopping the floor with any aircraft from any airforce the US is likely to tangle with. The Eurofighter is better, and some of the Russian aircraft likely are too, but no state that the US is likely to go to war with can field those aircraft, and certainly not in large enough numbers to pose a significant threat to the USAF.

The F-22 was designed based on requirements issued late in the cold war. The F-22 was selected for production over the YF-23 in 1991, just before Gorbachev finally ceded power. It's a fantastic aircraft, but it's useful role is much smaller than it was 15 years ago, given the changing threats faced by the US.
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Re: F-22's worst enemy : rain

Post by Topspin »

grimey wrote: What conflicts today involve 2 powers with state of the art air forces on both sides? The F-15 is still capable of mopping the floor with any aircraft from any airforce the US is likely to tangle with. The Eurofighter is better, and some of the Russian aircraft likely are too, but no state that the US is likely to go to war with can field those aircraft, and certainly not in large enough numbers to pose a significant threat to the USAF.

The F-22 was designed based on requirements issued late in the cold war. The F-22 was selected for production over the YF-23 in 1991, just before Gorbachev finally ceded power. It's a fantastic aircraft, but it's useful role is much smaller than it was 15 years ago, given the changing threats faced by the US.
In terms of keeping pilots alive, I would say all of the expensive ones have proven their worth. The F-117 & B-2 have both been used extensively.

The ability to attack a location anywhere in hostile territory with a greatly reduced threat of loosing your own life is certainly worth something.

They say you can't put a price on human life, if the F-22 is a shield protecting it how can one put a price on that?
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Rockie
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Re: F-22's worst enemy : rain

Post by Rockie »

grimey wrote:The F-15 is still capable of mopping the floor with any aircraft from any airforce the US is likely to tangle with. The Eurofighter is better, and some of the Russian aircraft likely are too, but no state that the US is likely to go to war with can field those aircraft, and certainly not in large enough numbers to pose a significant threat to the USAF.
You've made at least two assumptions here that military planners are not permitted to, and you use the word "likely" as if it equates to a certainty. Well, three years ago the United States wasn't "likely" to have a black president. In April 1990 Iraq wasn't "likely" to invade Kuwait. Some might say North Korea isn't "likely" to launch an invasion of South Korea or that Iran isn't "likely" to take a run at Israel either. But if they do that isn't the time to start looking around for a fighter capable of dominating their airforce is it?

And while you are correct in saying the F-15 is a capable aircraft that can still beat anything a third rate banana republic can throw at them, they are 30+ years old and cannot beat the newest air or surface to air threats that are out there. The F-22 is at the beginning of its life, can beat them all, and will continue to be the benchmark for some time to come. That is until Russia builds something better.
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Hedley
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Re: F-22's worst enemy : rain

Post by Hedley »

I must be misunderstanding something.

Apparently most people believe that absolutely no country in the
future would ever consider arming itself with economical and
quite capable MiG-29 or SU-27, both of which were specifically
designed to counter the F-14/15/16/18 :roll:

Going up against an air force of MiG-29 and/or SU-27, I would
really like to be equipped with the F-22.

Of course, what everyone here ignores is the most important
part of a fighter plane: the pilot. You can buy yourself a squadron
of MiG-29 for very little money, but generating a squadron's worth
of aggressive, well-trained, experienced fighter pilots who know and
can fully exploit the strengths of their aircraft and the weaknesses of
the enemy's aircraft (and pilots!), and won't cut and run with
"engine trouble" when the rubber hits the road isn't quite so easy.

It isn't all about the tin, guys.
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