Looking for opinions...
Just purchased a Garmin 196. Originally, I had a hard time deciding between the 196, a Lowrance 1000 & the Garmin ColorMap 295. I eventually went with the 196 based on the fact that the unit was a good Multi-Purpose unit. (Air/Land/Sea) All reviews indicated that it would function as an Aviation unit to get me through different Airspace and to the Airport and then be able to switch to Land Mode and I would be on my way to the local Motel. Wrong!
Accuracy with regards to actual position - Yes, awesome!
Base Map accuracy - Only if you call 5 Kilometers close!
I am thinking of sending the 196 back and purchasing the 295 as I only really want the unit to function well in the Cockpit.
I would like some opinions from folks here that have used one or the other or better yet, both.
The only real concern I have heard with regards to the 295 would be the redraw speed, but I wonder if that would really be an issue in my 172? I have also read that the Color Screen more than makes up for the slower redraw speeds?
Looking forward to hearing different opinions on these two units.
Best Regards,
Crispy
Garmin 196 Vs. Garmin 295
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Cat Driver
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I've been using a couple of Lorance Airmaps for years.
You can put map cartriges in them and they are accurate enough to tell which side of a multi lane highway you are on..I also have Europe and the med in them and never seen any problems with the mapping accuracy.
The cartriges are expensive though...and I never run them on batteries, they will accept 6 to 36 volts DC.
You can put map cartriges in them and they are accurate enough to tell which side of a multi lane highway you are on..I also have Europe and the med in them and never seen any problems with the mapping accuracy.
The cartriges are expensive though...and I never run them on batteries, they will accept 6 to 36 volts DC.
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
doesn't any one read maps any more? All you need in a gps is a garmin 95 or the likes. Something that shows track, bearing and ground speed. I think people are starting to rely in gps too much. Saying that I do have to priviledge of useing a garmin 530 for ifr purposes, but relying on a hand held gps for VFR nav makes me nervous.
This is not ment to knock the accuracy or inaccuracy of gps but there will be a day someone forgets new batteries and is left stranded.
This is not ment to knock the accuracy or inaccuracy of gps but there will be a day someone forgets new batteries and is left stranded.
I agree that people are becoming dependant on GPS. Awsome SA as long as the batteries don't die or you don't have an electrical problem. Its like coming down off the high after using heroin (no experience here but I've learned a bit from watching COPS). After that, you've set yourself up to become lost like a smelly homeless person. I've used the Garmin 295 and it is great as long as it doesn't get stolen. It seems there are a lot of other people that want them and will stop at nothing to get into your aircraft. I've found that its everything a panel mount can offer (besides being a nav/com) with all the portability. The colour screen has good resolution and detailed maps and i've never had a problem with the redraw. I've also never flown anything fast enough for that to be a problem. If you can afford the $2000 sticker price then I'd say go for it.
We used to have a 196 but there was no comparison. Everything is better on the 295
We used to have a 196 but there was no comparison. Everything is better on the 295
Perfect...
Thanks Youngback,
This is exactly the feedback I was hoping for. Info from someone who had used both!
Regards,
Crispy3M
This is exactly the feedback I was hoping for. Info from someone who had used both!
Regards,
Crispy3M
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Cat Driver
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And it never ceases to amaze me the cave man mentality so evident in aviation.
Hand helds are superior to panel mounts for many reasons, price being the most signifigant.
I can not imagine going back to trans oceanic or trans remote area flying such as the Sahara desert without GPS.
It is insulting for me to read anyone suggesting that we would rely on GPS without other nav info for back up.....
We run our hand helds off the airplane power, and have several quick hook up systems, if the airplane electrical power were for some reason quit that is where handhelds are worth their weight in gold...you just switch to battery power.
By the way I also use two Anywheremap Aviation software packages on two Ipac PDA's an Ipac 3650 and an Ipac 2210 using a bluetooth enabled GPS antenna.
I like that system better than the A320 presentation.
And last but not least after over forty countries and using GPS since it first became availiable I have never had them lose info for more than a few minutes.....
If it does fail I would just revert to all the other nav methods we use...from a definate known position.
Navigation information when flying is like fuel, you can never have to much.
Cat
Hand helds are superior to panel mounts for many reasons, price being the most signifigant.
I can not imagine going back to trans oceanic or trans remote area flying such as the Sahara desert without GPS.
It is insulting for me to read anyone suggesting that we would rely on GPS without other nav info for back up.....
We run our hand helds off the airplane power, and have several quick hook up systems, if the airplane electrical power were for some reason quit that is where handhelds are worth their weight in gold...you just switch to battery power.
By the way I also use two Anywheremap Aviation software packages on two Ipac PDA's an Ipac 3650 and an Ipac 2210 using a bluetooth enabled GPS antenna.
I like that system better than the A320 presentation.
And last but not least after over forty countries and using GPS since it first became availiable I have never had them lose info for more than a few minutes.....
If it does fail I would just revert to all the other nav methods we use...from a definate known position.
Navigation information when flying is like fuel, you can never have to much.
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
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Cat Driver
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Rebel:
Good God, don't tell me I finally made some sense.
Hey Reb.. the Anywheremap software actually is in some ways better than the Airbus GPS / Nav displays..... at a real bargain price wise.
By the way one of our crew took a sextant with us on the South Atlantic trip in the Cat and we had so many problems trying to thread our way through the ITCZ weather without radar and our strike finder wouldn't work that we completly forgot to use the sextant for fun, that and the fact that we did not see much sky at our altitude anyhow.
Cat
Good God, don't tell me I finally made some sense.
Hey Reb.. the Anywheremap software actually is in some ways better than the Airbus GPS / Nav displays..... at a real bargain price wise.
By the way one of our crew took a sextant with us on the South Atlantic trip in the Cat and we had so many problems trying to thread our way through the ITCZ weather without radar and our strike finder wouldn't work that we completly forgot to use the sextant for fun, that and the fact that we did not see much sky at our altitude anyhow.
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
Cat Driver,
In no way would I think that someone of your experience would be reliant or dependant on GPS. It has only been around for a fraction of your flying career. What does concern me is new pilots who don't put the time or effort beyond their initial training to learn the other ways of navigating. For you, years of using radio aids, sextants, and dead reckoning have made it automatic to use them. Just 2 days ago I overheard a conversation where one of the pilots was flying in southern BC and his GPS batteries had died. He didn't know where any navaids were but he was lucky (yes lucky) in that he had a spare set of batteries. I'm assuming he didn't even have a map out.
GPS is a great tool. I have a handheld myself. But GPS is just that, a tool. They can fail, however rarely.
Putting this another way, if you really don't want kids, you are going to make sure that there is more than one contraceptive being used. Those who don't risk the chance of a surprise in 9 months.
In no way would I think that someone of your experience would be reliant or dependant on GPS. It has only been around for a fraction of your flying career. What does concern me is new pilots who don't put the time or effort beyond their initial training to learn the other ways of navigating. For you, years of using radio aids, sextants, and dead reckoning have made it automatic to use them. Just 2 days ago I overheard a conversation where one of the pilots was flying in southern BC and his GPS batteries had died. He didn't know where any navaids were but he was lucky (yes lucky) in that he had a spare set of batteries. I'm assuming he didn't even have a map out.
GPS is a great tool. I have a handheld myself. But GPS is just that, a tool. They can fail, however rarely.
Putting this another way, if you really don't want kids, you are going to make sure that there is more than one contraceptive being used. Those who don't risk the chance of a surprise in 9 months.
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Cat Driver
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Youngback:
Yup, I was aware that you knew the proper thought process with GPS, however I try and be quite forceful and make all the low time guys "think"
The changes in navigating that we went through make us appreciate the modern technology...when I started my IFR training navigation was done by flying the low frequency airways with the A and N sectors and the actual airway was the intersection of the two signals creating a steady hum...actually it really worked quite well and the last radio range was in the Yukon and they decommissioned it around 1971 or so. I did my last range Nav. in a DC3 flying out of Whitehorse. Also the ADF had a manual loop that we turned by hand to find the aural null..then we got automatic ADF finders with a BFO setting for finding the null in the Arctic when flying in ice crystals that set up st Elmos fire and fu..ed the ADF sensing. The Aurora does the same....
Then came VOR - Doppler - Decca - GNS - INS - Loran - and now GPS.
Oh we also used the astro compass in the arctic and some of the guys still do.
But I'll take GPS any day.
Ever seen St Elmos fire in an airplane? It is really neat you can draw lines in blue flames with your fingers, one night I was playing with the blue flame on the windshield and we called the flight attendant up and took her blouse and bra off and drew blue lines around her nipples, she was a good crew member. ..
You see guys like me were into CRM long before TC ever heard about it.
Cat
Yup, I was aware that you knew the proper thought process with GPS, however I try and be quite forceful and make all the low time guys "think"
The changes in navigating that we went through make us appreciate the modern technology...when I started my IFR training navigation was done by flying the low frequency airways with the A and N sectors and the actual airway was the intersection of the two signals creating a steady hum...actually it really worked quite well and the last radio range was in the Yukon and they decommissioned it around 1971 or so. I did my last range Nav. in a DC3 flying out of Whitehorse. Also the ADF had a manual loop that we turned by hand to find the aural null..then we got automatic ADF finders with a BFO setting for finding the null in the Arctic when flying in ice crystals that set up st Elmos fire and fu..ed the ADF sensing. The Aurora does the same....
Then came VOR - Doppler - Decca - GNS - INS - Loran - and now GPS.
Oh we also used the astro compass in the arctic and some of the guys still do.
But I'll take GPS any day.
Ever seen St Elmos fire in an airplane? It is really neat you can draw lines in blue flames with your fingers, one night I was playing with the blue flame on the windshield and we called the flight attendant up and took her blouse and bra off and drew blue lines around her nipples, she was a good crew member. ..
You see guys like me were into CRM long before TC ever heard about it.
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
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Cat Driver
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- Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:31 pm
Yeh before we had automatic sensing you had to manually turn the antenna to get the null... There was a big handle in the roof and you turned the antenna until you got the null then of course you had to figure out the ambiguity.................
How come you didn't comment on my being on the leading edge of CRM?
Cat
How come you didn't comment on my being on the leading edge of CRM?
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
Yes i have actually used an old loop sensing antenna. I was commenting on the automatic ADF finder. As in ADF stands for Automatic Direction Finder. Which gives automatic Automatic Direction Finder finders.
Oh just never mind. Even i don't find it funny anymore.
Cat i suspect that CRM has been around since the first aircraft with more than one seat. They just didn't have a fancy name for it back then because no one needed a fancy name to think "Gee, I could get bob in the right seat there to do this for me."
And yes, i am very jealous you bastard. I suspect i will never have the opportunity to play with St. Elmo's Fire and le beau sexe at the same time. The likes of those days are gone ... but i can dream.
ahramin
Oh just never mind. Even i don't find it funny anymore.
Cat i suspect that CRM has been around since the first aircraft with more than one seat. They just didn't have a fancy name for it back then because no one needed a fancy name to think "Gee, I could get bob in the right seat there to do this for me."
And yes, i am very jealous you bastard. I suspect i will never have the opportunity to play with St. Elmo's Fire and le beau sexe at the same time. The likes of those days are gone ... but i can dream.
ahramin
Back on Topic?
Thanks for the great replies folks but can we get back to the topic at hand.
We all know, or should know that our Nav Aids are just that.
As is sometimes the norm here, It didn't take long for someone to hijack my innocent thread and try to turn it into something it's not!
Beer can start his own thread on how he/she feels about GPS and all other Nav Aids somewhere else and leave us to discuss the merits of the Garmin line.
Once again, I'm very interested in hearing from those with experience using the Garmin 196 and or the 295.
Best Regards,
Crispy3M
We all know, or should know that our Nav Aids are just that.
As is sometimes the norm here, It didn't take long for someone to hijack my innocent thread and try to turn it into something it's not!
Beer can start his own thread on how he/she feels about GPS and all other Nav Aids somewhere else and leave us to discuss the merits of the Garmin line.
Once again, I'm very interested in hearing from those with experience using the Garmin 196 and or the 295.
Best Regards,
Crispy3M
Yes Sir. Sorry Sir. 
We do tend to digress here.
The 295 is a very powerful unit. Lots of extremely useful stuff. For your money i just do not think that you can buy a better unit. Basically if you just want heading and groundspeed i would go with the cheapest thing i can find but if you really intend to use it as your primary source of navigation and can use all the neat stuff i could not think of a better unit without going to an IFR GPS.
We do tend to digress here.
The 295 is a very powerful unit. Lots of extremely useful stuff. For your money i just do not think that you can buy a better unit. Basically if you just want heading and groundspeed i would go with the cheapest thing i can find but if you really intend to use it as your primary source of navigation and can use all the neat stuff i could not think of a better unit without going to an IFR GPS.
Opinions
Ahramin,
I hope I didn't sound like I was issuing orders. I was only trying to get the train back on the track.
It's nice to get the opinions of fellow Pilots who have used these units in the Cockpit rather than Sales People who have only used them in their automobiles.
Best Regards,
Crispy3M
I hope I didn't sound like I was issuing orders. I was only trying to get the train back on the track.
It's nice to get the opinions of fellow Pilots who have used these units in the Cockpit rather than Sales People who have only used them in their automobiles.
Best Regards,
Crispy3M
I've used GPS since before it was a novelty and have used both the 196 and 295 in addition to many, many others. I've recently been using the 196 for SAR purposes relating to CASARA.
For my money, I would definately go with the 196. It is a much faster machine. The "instrument" display gives you all the primary instruments and primary info (including HSI, ASI, VSI and T&B) on one screen. I wouldnt necessarily rely on them for anything approaching IFR but they might save your life in a pinch.
As far as the map detail goes, you can buy a blank map cartridge and download whatever maps you like for the US and Canada. At the moment you can get street level detail for Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto (and vicinity) and Vancouver plus much enhanced data for everywhere else in Canada. In addition you can get bluechart or any other map product that is downloadable to the carteridges.The price of cartridge and CD is about $200 or so.
The 295 is a development of the Street pilot series of GPS's, but the 196 was designed from the ground up as an aviation GPS that can be used for other applications.
I haven't priced them in awhile, but the 196 (because the screen isn't colour) is also about 6-700 CHEAPER than the 295 and comes with all the hardware you need to mount to your yoke.
If you're looking for a cheaper alternative, I'd look for a 195 or even a Pilot III. Both are capable in their oen right, although I find the III's screen too small, and the screen of the 195 (although bigger) also has readability issues.
For my money, DEFINATELY the 196.
PM for more info.
Cheers!!
For my money, I would definately go with the 196. It is a much faster machine. The "instrument" display gives you all the primary instruments and primary info (including HSI, ASI, VSI and T&B) on one screen. I wouldnt necessarily rely on them for anything approaching IFR but they might save your life in a pinch.
As far as the map detail goes, you can buy a blank map cartridge and download whatever maps you like for the US and Canada. At the moment you can get street level detail for Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto (and vicinity) and Vancouver plus much enhanced data for everywhere else in Canada. In addition you can get bluechart or any other map product that is downloadable to the carteridges.The price of cartridge and CD is about $200 or so.
The 295 is a development of the Street pilot series of GPS's, but the 196 was designed from the ground up as an aviation GPS that can be used for other applications.
I haven't priced them in awhile, but the 196 (because the screen isn't colour) is also about 6-700 CHEAPER than the 295 and comes with all the hardware you need to mount to your yoke.
If you're looking for a cheaper alternative, I'd look for a 195 or even a Pilot III. Both are capable in their oen right, although I find the III's screen too small, and the screen of the 195 (although bigger) also has readability issues.
For my money, DEFINATELY the 196.
PM for more info.
Cheers!!
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Intentional Left Bank
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I've never used the 196, so I can't give you a comparison analysis. I like the 295 out of the box, but it really shines now that I got a blank data card and uploaded some MapSource maps into it. It shows every lake you can find on a VNC (complete with names) and logging roads too. Without the MapSource maps, it has a 3 nm resolution, with it goes to 0.2.
I haven't noticed the refresh rate so I guess it must be alright. I do notice that when you change the scale of the map, it can take a while to redraw the first time.
You can complete customize the various pages to display whatever info you want. I like having a continously updated display of the required VSI rate to get down to your destination elevation on the main nav page.
One feature which is good for bragging rights and little else is it's ability to keep track of your best groud speed. Record last summer was 207 kts with 2 canoes strapped on. (DHC-2 Mk III)
I haven't noticed the refresh rate so I guess it must be alright. I do notice that when you change the scale of the map, it can take a while to redraw the first time.
You can complete customize the various pages to display whatever info you want. I like having a continously updated display of the required VSI rate to get down to your destination elevation on the main nav page.
One feature which is good for bragging rights and little else is it's ability to keep track of your best groud speed. Record last summer was 207 kts with 2 canoes strapped on. (DHC-2 Mk III)
