-Kelowna Flightcraft Minimum-

[flygirl123]

What is the minimum requirement for a s/o job at kelowna flightcraft????????

[Jastapilot]

now why would you go and stunt your career like that? The minimum requirements is a commercial licence and a pulse for an SO job.
Anyways, what I meant to say was I have no idea about Flightcraft specifically, but you don't typically need any hours to get an SO job.

[flygirl123]

Thanks for the post.
Well, dont u start of as a s/o and then upgrade to f/o???????

[BEE3]

One should be careful about tossing comments about how lousy a job is if you haven't held that position or worked for that company. The S/O seat is a great, great way to get into the seat of a big multi-crew jet. I have intimate knowledge of a large number of drivers who launched their careers ahead of many many others by learning about airline SOP's, systems, shutting up and watching how it's done. It is a gamble to spend a few years sitting back and watching others fly as you run a panel, in particular if movement into the seat is slow as is the case now, but if it's with a company like KFW or CJT it's a great route. You will get more than a fair share of opportunity to have the right seat spot. I'm dumb as a stump and I made it into the right seat of a 727 with a few hundred hours while lots of buddies chose to get the PIC time and fly floats, props etc. It all depends whether you wish to stay with one operator for a while and aren't dying for the PIC time or if you want to get your time in and then park yourself for a F/O spot etc. This topic has been posted and bitched over lots of times. I've seen some who hated every second of it and bailed, and others who looked big picture and sat back and made the best of it.
Simple... smile, don't whine that you aren't flying the airplane yet, keep the fuel balanced, don't keep it too warm, have your set-up done before the guys get out to the airplane, and bring snacks and porn for the crew and you'll be golden.
Cheers.

[Jastapilot]

Bee3 I'm curious; how long have you been an FO now?

[Donald]

Then again, there are those guys who put in lots of back-seat time at CJT only to be laid off.

When you are low-time, and your most recent experience is a bunch of back-seat 727 time, how well do you think your resume stands out?

[flygirl123]

Bee3 thx for the reply:)
Which company do u work for?
Does Flightcraft hire based on how much multi time you have for the s/o spot?
Like, what r they really looking for?
ATPL?

[flygirl123]

Donald: How long does it take to upgrade to f/o position????

[Donald]

I know people at and from both companies, but I have not worked at either, so I don't know the real answer. I have heard though, that a typical wait time is around 1.5 years. Obviously that varies with general movement in the industry.

[flygirl123]

oh thx:)

Does anyone know the starting pay for s/o?

[Jastapilot]

I'm gonna put this gently to you flygirl, so you have the facts. If you are taking a job as an SO to upgrade to FO on a large jet, you had better have your multi PIC in order so that you have the ability years down the road to upgrade to captain. I have seen people think they're getting ahead of their peers by taking a job like this only to rot in the right seat while their buddies who went captain on something small bypass them for captain on a large jet later. Something to think about.

[flygirl123]

Jastapilot: hmmm, i haven't thought about that....thx:)
But, if your a s/o don't you get flight time?
Also when your a f/o!
To upgrade is like you need ...hrs to become captain..is that right?

[Jastapilot]

I'm gonna put this gently to you flygirl, so you have the facts. If you are taking a job as an SO to upgrade to FO on a large jet, you had better have your multi PIC in order so that you have the ability years down the road to upgrade to captain. I have seen people think they're getting ahead of their peers by taking a job like this only to rot in the right seat while their buddies who went captain on something small bypass them for captain on a large jet later. Something to think about.

from the westjet website: minimums for FO:

-1,500 hours total time (Please note that if you have Second Officer time, only half of the Second Officer hours will be applied to total time).
-500 hours fixed wing Pilot-In-Command experience.
-500 hours fixed wing multi-engine experience.

much lower than it used to be but I guarantee there are very few in the training classes who are so inexperienced.

[flygirl123]

okay, but how do you get the PIC multi? If your working as a F/O flying small king air planes, does the hours you log in your book count half or doesn't even count????

[Jastapilot]

Oh dear. PIC means pilot in command, which is the captain. Other than that BS captain under supervision program, you can't log PIC unless you're the captain. There is no fast and easy slingshot to an airliner's left seat. Simply 'doing' your time as an SO then sitting as FO won't cut it, at least in Canada. You will learn more, you will experience more, and you'll have better hands and feet if you fly a smaller plane yourself, FIRST, before you get that fancy heavy job. You'll also make your resume look better too.

[flygirl123]

Hahahaha, i know what PIC means. Isn't it that, if your a f/o you log in half of the time as PIC?

[AuxBatOn]

Hahahaha, i know what PIC means. Isn't it that, if your a f/o you log in half of the time as PIC?

No. PIC is PIC. Period.

How far along your training are you?

[flygirl123]

Just starting. Why?

[AuxBatOn]

Just starting. Why?

These are questions that you'll be able to get answer as you progress along in your training. You'll be exposed to these things and you'll have to read about them. If you can do yourself a BIG favor, you should start SEARCHING for stuff yourself. It'll come handy during most of your training, as you'll be expected to find answers for yourself, especially at the commercial level. Reading through regulations (which have these answers for you) will only help you in the long run.

Also, asking this kind of question (ie: minimum time required for a company) right now is pretty my useless because by the time you finish your training, it will have changed.

I understand your excitement, but if I was you, I'd use my energy learning about things by myself, rather than asking 1000 questions that do not apply to me right now.

[flygirl123]

AuxBatOn: Okay, thx:)
Ya, i searched about the Co-pilot time and this is what it said:
"Another way to credit co-pilot time is Pilot-in-command Under Supervision (PIC U/S). This program can be instituted by large and small air carriers, allowing co-pilots to credit up to 200 hours co-pilot time as 100 hours PIC U/S. This means that 50% of up to 200 hours co-pilot time can be credited as PIC experience if approved.

[AuxBatOn]

AuxBatOn: Okay, thx:)
Ya, i searched about the Co-pilot time and this is what it said:

An other thing that will greatly help you (especially when reading regulation) is reading properly, and understanding the meaning of a sentence. It is not a joke or an attack to your intelligence, but that's something lots of people have problem with. All it takes is a little bit of logic and sentence structure knowledge.

Another way to credit co-pilot time is Pilot-in-command Under Supervision (PIC U/S).

Straight forward, it says that you can credit co-pilot time towards Pilot-In-Command Under Supervision

This program can be instituted by large and small air carriers, allowing co-pilots to credit up to 200 hours co-pilot time as 100 hours PIC U/S.

The PIC U/S Program cane be instuted by large and small air carriers (basically all carriers). The programs allows co-pilots (ie: the people that do not log PIC normally) to credit 200 hours of their co-pilot time as 100 hours PIC.

This means that 50% of up to 200 hours co-pilot time can be credited as PIC experience if approved.

So, 50% of UP TO (that means NO MORE) 200 hours of your co-pilot time can be credited as PIC experience (but not logged as PIC), if approved (it means, the program has to be approved by transport canada).

So, all you can milk is 100 hours PIC, which is short of the ATPL requirement for PIC, by 50 hours if you have the bare 100 hours PIC minimum required by the CPL.

This only applies towards licenses, and not companies, as this time is still logged as co-pilot, just credited as PIC when you apply for a license.

Obviously, a bit of background is also required. That background, you'll build it in due time, as you progress in your training and career.

[flygirl123]

Thank you for your help.

[BEE3]

Hey all;

Didn't wanna start a big "who knows more about what" thread. Just noting that if you get into a stable operator such as CJT or KFC who are most likely not going anywhere soon, spending some some in the back seat to get a right seat is a great move. As noted, it is wise to plan for the future command spots with PIC time in mind. Guess it all depends on how fast you want that command seat, or if you are patient enough to sit in the right seat while guys with less time than you are skippers because they have the command time out of the way. All of the obvious stuff comes to mind, the stability/longevity of operator, and will the 27 be used for the time you need to get to fly it etc. Definitely some cautions to looks at, but again, I can't help but think of the large number of guys I know who are now skippers on the 727 or right seat 757/767 after starting in the back seat with very little TT and some with only brand new commercial tickets.
PIC may be an issue at some point, but I know scads of high time PIC jet guys who are not working and others who have only ever known the i.e. 727 aircraft from flight school and make 110k yearly as skippers.
Not fair at all, just an observation.

[C-MNOP]

Flygirl,

Dont be afraid to ask questions. Ask as many as you need to understand what you need to know. Always be learning and good luck in your career.

KFC is a good place to find a career. If you get on, and stay on youll be working for one of the most stable companies in Canada and in 5-10 years be a captain earning a respectable wage. If required go and fly a navajo for a thousand hours then try to get on there. Best of luck.

[flygirl123]

c-mnop thx:)

Some companies post their upgrade hours from F/O to Captain.
Do you know how many hours you need to upgrade or does it depend on years you'v been worked for the company.
I have noticed that a lot of people are saying PIC time is golden. Is that how the aviation pilot industry work?
-start and work as a f/o for a small charter for around 3years and then upgrade to captain to earn PIC time. Stay there 5years before getting enough PIC.
-Apply at a major/cargo for a f/o or s/o position and wait 10-15years to upgrade?

This discussing forum isn't only for myself...it's for new starters to know about the company and what r there options not only for KFC...but for any other airlines. The basics are the same.