KFC DC10

[tonysoprano]

Hauling Canada Post since AC won't be doing it any longer..

Don't be so sure. The only thing AC did was end the DC10 contract. Cargo is still being hauled on the 777 and other planes as required.

[yyz monkey]

Hauling Canada Post since AC won't be doing it any longer..

Don't be so sure. The only thing AC did was end the DC10 contract. Cargo is still being hauled on the 777 and other planes as required.

Contract will be terminated as of September 13 due to CPs refusal to pay fuel surcharges. Company & CP are in ongoing negotiations to find a middle ground, but that's how it stands as of now.

[tonysoprano]

Hauling Canada Post since AC won't be doing it any longer..

Don't be so sure. The only thing AC did was end the DC10 contract. Cargo is still being hauled on the 777 and other planes as required.

Contract will be terminated as of September 13 due to CPs refusal to pay fuel surcharges. Company & CP are in ongoing negotiations to find a middle ground, but that's how it stands as of now.

I think what you're saying is AC hasn't lost the contract yet. But hey, it's all doom and gloom from here on in.

[WJ700]

Is it true KF pilots actually took a two year pay scale roll back to get the DC-10's on line? Two years from the 727 rates? They then return 2 years later to regular pay and then 5% on to the 727 rate?? Seems like pretty cheap labor just to get a wide body.

[mighty mouse]

Is it true KF pilots actually took a two year pay scale roll back to get the DC-10's on line? Two years from the 727 rates? They then return 2 years later to regular pay and then 5% on to the 727 rate?? Seems like pretty cheap labor just to get a wide body.

Not true. A 12th year 727 capt would start at 10th year DC10 rates. No pay decrease. Also KFC pilots are very well paid but very overworked.

[WJ700]

Ahhh... well... I guess that's why rumors are called rumors. Thanks for clearing that up. How much is a DC-10 Captain going to make at 10 and 12 year then?

[daveg]

What will an FO going on the machine make as well?

[mighty mouse]

C= 141904.98
FO= 76307.98

Based on working 14 days, full credit for stat holidays. 1.5 for days over 14.

[hamstandard]

And how many days actually worked per month. Is it several in a row or just scattered about. All night stuff I assume.

[mighty mouse]

Well it depends, if you're senior you get what you want, when you want. If you're junior you get whats left AND have to do all the work. Since the contract is based on 14 days, the senior guys will take the trips and do maybe 3 hours of flying in a a day with a 5 to six hour duty day. The junior guys will fly their bags off and never be home. Its a VERY lopsided system. the top 10% get 90% of everything. Its not like AC or WJ where everyone pulls their own weight and work 70 - 90 hours each.

I'm very fond of westjets system where it rotates and everyone is senior and junior at different times and always rotating. I also like ACs system where everyone works their 80 hours a month some just do it in less days but work harder during those days.

Then theirs cargojet of course, work hard all the time but get paid well. Not a job I'd want long term though. (and I did say "I", if you want it long term good for you:)

[Coast-dog]

mighty mouse: sounds to me like your cup is half empty...

hamstandard: the work hasn't started yet, need to see how things play out...

[hamstandard]

So aside from the top guys, does the average KFC pilot have the opportunity to work a bunch of nights in a row or are you constantly tired with a night or two of flying then shifting back to a couple of days off and then a night of flying etc.

[WJ700]

I worked there ten years ago and found it was as MM says... but the sked was quite easy compared to WestJet's in my opinion. I hate flipping nights to days where at KF... it was at least mostly nights and I didn't feel nearly as fatigued. I wasn't a Captain so the schedule moved faster... progressing to easier skeds all the time. Once you make Captain... you sit... and wait... and wait... and dream about the day a number will move so you can get off of hot standby in the YHM crew lounge. (sorry if you're reading this DP and BW )

It was a good gig with some great guys (and gals) but I hated the management (or lack of) because they all had a touch of a hate on for pilots.

[mighty mouse]

I worked there ten years ago and found it was as MM says... but the sked was quite easy compared to WestJet's in my opinion. I hate flipping nights to days where at KF... it was at least mostly nights and I didn't feel nearly as fatigued. I wasn't a Captain so the schedule moved faster... progressing to easier skeds all the time. Once you make Captain... you sit... and wait... and wait... and dream about the day a number will move so you can get off of hot standby in the YHM crew lounge. (sorry if you're reading this DP and BW )

It was a good gig with some great guys (and gals) but I hated the management (or lack of) because they all had a touch of a hate on for pilots.

Things have changed quite a bit since you were at KFC. The biggest change was the start of Flair which brought about the end of any extra ( fun )work for the guys (Greyhound Air, Air Columbus, Sunwing, various passenger charters).
A few years ago management went for productivity from the pilot group. What was once the hell run (272/273) is now the senior run, that should sum up how hard the KFC pilots work. For pay it doesn’t matter if a KFC pilot works 6 hours or 14 the pay is still the same, it’s by the day.

But your right, lots of great guys, same for CG, AC WJ. It’s not the pilots ruining this industry.

I’m all for a national Pilot association setting minimum pay and working conditions as well as a lobby group to make Canadians aware of how barbaric our Canadian duty day limitations are.

[skydrolboy]

The first DC-10 is scheduled to arrive in YHM today. It will be parked on the heritage museum's ramp.

[buss]

Congrats boys.

Have fun.

If I'd stayed I'd be senior and 100+ is better than 40+ any day.

[flygirl123]

I dont get one thing.
Doesn't the DC10 fleets have a bad history?
Then why would KFC purchase them?

[rudder]

I’m all for a national Pilot association setting minimum pay and working conditions as well as a lobby group to make Canadians aware of how barbaric our Canadian duty day limitations are.

Lobby group? It's called a union.

Nobody deserves a union more than Barry Lapointe.

[palebird]

The Dc10 fleet has a bad record of what?? The 10 has been around for more than 30 years and has had it's fair share of incidents/accidents...what is your point? Fundamentally this is another Douglas workhorse, it is just a first gen widebody that is showing it's age like 747 classics..

[c170b53]

I got my CP endorsement on the 10 in 1982 and worked on them until they left Canadian (93 ish?)(I was not always employed there during that period). During the last years like many experienced 10 guys I was pigeon-holed on it because unlike the new planes, there's little T/S assistance and much must be done between the ears. Learned quite a few good lessons from the men that maintained it and also learned lessons from the machine. Now I'm just completing a 3 month EASA MD-11 course and the new model if you can call it that is quite the sled. The basic difference is the missing crew member, fuel efficient plus power and the longer fuselage. The DC-10 is a mechanical marvel, the MD-11 added an electronic S/O to oversee the mechanical marvel and installed him/her in the overhead panel. Just like a S/O it's behavior can be predictable almost all of the time. In terms of design and maintenance, excluding the A/P its plain overkill on every level. The fun part is, it now takes even more thinking between the ears to fix it. The Dutch (KLM) are one crazy bunch of guys but I must say they know their machines inside and out, their machines are spotless. I just wonder how long they and the 11 can survive in the new era where maintenance cost cutting comes first.

[aileron]

I dont get one thing.
Doesn't the DC10 fleets have a bad history?
Then why would KFC purchase them?

You must be a spring chicken!

The DC10 had anything but a bad history; sure it had it's high profile accidents, but you also have to remember there were a ton of them out there, doing lots and lots of flying for many years. It also got a bit of a bad rap, at the beginning of it's service, in the 70's with the Turkish Airlines crash. You have to wonder how much of the media machine was behind that and the L1011 entrance as well as Boeing aircraft. Of course there were other high profile examples of crashes: Chicago, Sioux City & Peggy's Cove (MD11).

Wonderful aircraft to fly on, only wished I had the opportunity to fly on an MD11. Many trips on the DC10, and really enjoyed flying on it. I have to say, though, for a three holer, the L1011's lines have my heart.

[ScudRunner]

I got my CP endorsement on the 10 in 1982 and worked on them until they left Canadian (93 ish?)(I was not always employed there during that period). During the last years like many experienced 10 guys I was pigeon-holed on it because unlike the new planes, there's little T/S assistance and much must be done between the ears. Learned quite a few good lessons from the men that maintained it and also learned lessons from the machine. Now I'm just completing a 3 month EASA MD-11 course and the new model if you can call it that is quite the sled. The basic difference is the missing crew member, fuel efficient plus power and the longer fuselage. The DC-10 is a mechanical marvel, the MD-11 added an electronic S/O to oversee the mechanical marvel and installed him/her in the overhead panel. Just like a S/O it's behavior can be predictable almost all of the time. In terms of design and maintenance, excluding the A/P its plain overkill on every level. The fun part is, it now takes even more thinking between the ears to fix it. The Dutch (KLM) are one crazy bunch of guys but I must say they know their machines inside and out, their machines are spotless. I just wonder how long they and the 11 can survive in the new era where maintenance cost cutting comes first.

The last of the old Greasy 10's actually left Canadian in 2000 2001, I remember back when I was a lowly ramp rat at YVR they where sitting near the south terminal awaiting a trip to the desert.
http://www.planespotters.net/Airline/Ca ... ernational

[c170b53]

If they were there then I would have worked on them up until I switched departments in 2000. I couldn't remember when they stopped flying but I would have thought that they had been out of action before then.