FORMATION FLYING IN CANADA

[fleet16b]

We all know that in the US one must have a F.A.S.T. card to be eligible to fly formation during airshows.
However, I am told that in Canada there is no such rule and that all that is needed is log book entries stating that you have c/out 10 hrs practice within a certain time frame.
Apparently this "proves proficiency".
I find this hard to believe.
Does anyone here know the steps that actually have to be taken ?

Thanks

[Hedley]

You could always try reading the regulations

CAR 623.06 applies:

http://www.tc.gc.ca/civilaviation/regse ... m#623d1_06

d) to conduct formation non-aerobatic manoeuvres:

(i) as pilot-in-command of the aircraft, be experienced in flying in formation in the aircraft intended for the flight,

(ii) in a formation flight of four aircraft or less, have practiced the non-aerobatic manoeuvres with the other members of the formation within the previous 30 days prior to the air show,

Do keep in mind that if Transport personally dislikes you,
they will find a reason to keep you out, regardless of what
the regulations are, and how well qualified and experienced
you are - "not in the public interest" is their current favorite
rhetoric

[fleet16b]

You could always try reading the regulations

CAR 623.06 applies:

http://www.tc.gc.ca/civilaviation/regse ... m#623d1_06

d) to conduct formation non-aerobatic manoeuvres:

(i) as pilot-in-command of the aircraft, be experienced in flying in formation in the aircraft intended for the flight,

(ii) in a formation flight of four aircraft or less, have practiced the non-aerobatic manoeuvres with the other members of the formation within the previous 30 days prior to the air show,

Do keep in mind that if Transport personally dislikes you,
they will find a reason to keep you out, regardless of what
the regulations are, and how well qualified and experienced
you are - "not in the public interest" is their current favorite
rhetoric

Thanks Hedley, I have read the regs and they are quite simple .
However, I agree somewhat about the popularity contest that goes on.
I have encountered some US Air Bosses that refuse to let a Canadian Flight fly formation at a Canadian Show unless they have this F.A.S.T. card .
It's quite maddening because the local Transport Rep usually just walks away saying it's the call of the Air Boss

[Hedley]

some US Air Bosses that refuse to let a Canadian Flight fly formation at a Canadian Show unless they have this F.A.S.T. card

Hold on a sec - in the USA, CAR 623.06 does not apply
because you're in a different country - the FAA regulations
and orders apply!

Start reading here:

http://www.faa.gov/about/initiatives/airshow/waiver/

Bottom line: if you want to fly in an airshow in the USA,
you'd better be qualified as the FAA requires. I'm not
sure why you'd think that you shouldn't have to be.

Every country has different rules. They're allowed to,
because it's their country. What's disappointing
is that in Canada, if you comply with the regulations,
you can be "qualified" but not "eligible" because Transport
applies the regulations differently for different people.

This is clear violation of the Charter of Rights by Transport -
imagine if they came out and said that they weren't going
to allow women, natives or blacks to fly in airshows - but
no one cares. The government breaks the law all the time,
and they're allowed to, because no one can hold them
accountable.

[fleet16b]

some US Air Bosses that refuse to let a Canadian Flight fly formation at a Canadian Show unless they have this F.A.S.T. card

Bottom line: if you want to fly in an airshow in the USA,
you'd better be qualified as the FAA requires. I'm not
sure why you'd think that you shouldn't have to be.

Every country has different rules. They're allowed to,
because it's their country. What's disappointing
is that in Canada, if you comply with the regulations,
you can be "qualified" but not "eligible" because Transport
applies the regulations differently for different people.

This is clear violation of the Charter of Rights by Transport -
imagine if they came out and said that they weren't going
to allow women, natives or blacks to fly in airshows - but
no one cares. The government breaks the law all the time,
and they're allowed to, because no one can hold them
accountable.

I know , I know .....it is particularily maddening when a US Air Boss has been hired to run a Canadian based show and starts spouting F.A.S.T. card rules etc. And even more of a piss off when you tell them that the week before at a show , you flew formation.
All the quoting of CARS didn't penetrate at all........brutal
And ofcourse the fear is that if one makes too much of the issue ....well ! here comes black ball time....

[Old Dog Flying]

This is an interesting thread! A few years ago Nav Canada came out with the idea that there would be NO civilian formation flying in controlled airspace. I was part of a 3-plane which departed ZBB, made a pass at YPK and YNJ before "visiting" YXX where the formation broke up and we headed for our respective home bases. While transitting Langley's CZ the controller informed me of the new "Rule" at which time I informed the controller that it was TC who issues the Air Regs and until the time comes when NC makes the Air Regs I will continue flying formation..end of conversation!

The NCan rule disapeared shortly thereafter. Can you imagine a little Grumman Yankee flying close formation with an HU-16? Or an AN-2? It was great fun.

[fleet16b]

Well everyone , the reason for starting this thread was to pose a question.
It has been very well asnswered and for that I thank all involved.
As for where the thread seems to be heading???..........
Maybe a new " lets kick the crap out of each other" thread should be started so that the forum members can either not be exposed to all the whining or can go to that thread, sit back with a beer a bag of chips and be entertained by the repeatitious mud slinging that goes on here all the time

[Mitch Cronin]

[Optimus Prime]

Well everyone , the reason for starting this thread was to pose a question.
It has been very well asnswered and for that I thank all involved.
As for where the thread seems to be heading???..........
Maybe a new " lets kick the crap out of each other" thread should be started so that the forum members can either not be exposed to all the whining or can go to that thread, sit back with a beer a bag of chips and be entertained by the repeatitious mud slinging that goes on here all the time

That's what people do when they're hiding behind a username and avitar. I've been in a comma for 4 years. I woke up, logged on, and it's the same @#$%. Just different airplane parts as usernames.