Cariboo Gear UP?

[Doc]

I'm gonna stake a stab and say it was an oops. They were coming in high and hot, and the fire department wasn't waiting for them like they would if they had declared a gear malfunction. But you never know, the 3 green lights could have been lit up, but no physical hardware hanging from the belly.

If the lights are green, somethings hanging out the bottom. Or there would be no "green".

[Sidebar]

If you FORGET the gear, you are a moron!

That's a pretty harsh judgement. Do you consider yourself 100% immune to becoming a "moron"?

[raven54]

I agree with Doc here. This is one of the fundamentals of flying. The basics really. If you need to takeoff with flaps and you forget=moron, if you run out of gas=moron, if you land with your gear up=moron. I make my share of mistakes, but this is like forgetting to breath.

[Sidebar]

This is one of the fundamentals of flying. The basics really. If you need to takeoff with flaps and you forget=moron, if you run out of gas=moron, if you land with your gear up=moron. I make my share of mistakes, but this is like forgetting to breath.

And you too will never be a "moron"? How can you be so sure?

All those "morons" out there. Some of them with years and years of experience and training, and they still manage to takeoff with their flaps up. Remember Spanair last year? Think those guys were "morons"?

I agree that these are fundamentals of flying, but they are not involuntary behaviours like breathing is. As you might surmise, I don't think people in these situations are "morons". I think they're living, breathing, humans who fell into traps any human can fall into.

Sidney Dekker explains this phenomon very well. Give him a read. Here's hoping you never join the "moron" club.

[Doc]

If you FORGET the gear, you are a moron!

That's a pretty harsh judgement. Do you consider yourself 100% immune to becoming a "moron"?

I don't consider it "harsh" judgment, at all. You've got a trained crew "forgetting" to lower the gear. Come on. In your book, that's somehow acceptable? It ain't in mine. There are a few simple things a pilot is expected to do correctly EVERY time. Putting the gear down is one of them.
Many (not just you there, Sidebar) subscribe to the horse shit line that "it could happen to anybody...". I don't buy into that line of crap. There are many of us that it will never happen to. Because, we don't think it's Okay....on ANY level.

[Sidebar]

In your book, that's somehow acceptable? It ain't in mine..

Not mine either.

Many (not just you there, Sidebar) subscribe to the horse shit line that "it could happen to anybody...". I don't buy into that line of crap. There are many of us that it will never happen to. Because, we don't think it's Okay....on ANY level.

Imagine... Doc the "moron." Never happen, he says. NEVER! Let's hope not.

I accept that humans will make mistakes. Calling them morons gets us nowhere in understanding why these things occur or in reducing the risk of mistakes resulting in accidents.

[Cat Driver]

We all make mistakes.

However " TWO " pilots in a commercial twin engine airplane landing with the gear up goes beyond a simple mistake.

[Puddle Jumper]

Just a thought, but I wonder if one or both the crew flew NC's Otter recently. Flying two aircraft types could cause confusion or environmental capture, which may have led to the wrong memory items being called without running a check list for confirmation! Either way, something has gone very wrong here, and I’m sure the sound of a King Air 100 landing wheels-up is going to be etched in the memory of these poor guys forever!

I also subscribe to the philosophy of “Let He Who Has Not Sinned Cast the First Stone”. It’s just down to whether we make a big f**k up, or a little f**k up that determines our future eh!

[pika]

As I understand it... First revenue flight for the Captain in question. New seat and new responsibilities. I think most of us have been there. I'm not excusing the incident but an understanding of how the situation occured is usually more complicated than a simple gear up.

[raven54]

Hey I'm not saying I'm immune to screw ups. I do it a lot, little things mind you, and learn from them. If I ever make one of these major screw ups, and live to talk about, I'll be the first to call me a moron jack ass retard. I don't think I'll find myself there though. Yeah, I said it.

[Tubthumper]

Initial information from TSB is that the crew neglected to lower the gear and when they pulled the power back in the flare, the gear warning horn sounded, followed quickly by the props striking the runway.

Looking closely at the photo taken on the ground, I could tell the nose gear doors were never opened. The CADORS just confirmed what I thought.

[yycflyguy]

My next question would be why was so much power required to get them to the flare? If I remember correctly, 500ft/lbs of power nicely held the glideslope with full flap and gear down. Sounds like they were probably cutting a base to final leg to tight/too low and needed the extra power so the gear horn sounded in the flare... no excuse though as it was a severe clear day.

[ahramin]

I have not flown the B100 but I have flown Garretts, and you just don't pull the power back on the Garrett the way you do on a PT-6 or the props NTS (continuously going towards feather and back to fine again). Less likely to get the gear horn. Also early serial number straight 100s turn the gear handle warning light off when you silence the horn, not sure if any of the B100s fall into this category.

Just goes to show that with some of the crews out there, GPWS will pay for itself many times over.

[chipmunk]

I have not flown the B100 but I have flown Garretts, and you just don't pull the power back on the Garrett the way you do on a PT-6 or the props NTS (continuously going towards feather and back to fine again).

Seriously? If one of my Garretts ever does that, it gets snagged, and it's a super quick fix.

[ditar]

This one is a straight 100, isn't it?

[SeptRepair]

Well it was before they landed gear up.

[Flybaby]

I'm a little confused with the B100 talk, if this was a B100 the exhaust stacks would be lower and farther back. The cadors backs that up saying a straight 100 with PT6A-28. Another clue for the straight 100 is that the Pitot tubes are on the wing's where the A100's have them on the nose.

[Flying Nutcracker]

We all make mistakes.

However " TWO " pilots in a commercial twin engine airplane landing with the gear up goes beyond a simple mistake.

=2 morons

And might I add... was there not one single moron on the ground who saw this unfold??? Tower, ops vehicle... anyone holding short??? Nobody saw this happen until it touched down and went off...??? Must be a busy controlled airport...

[ozone]

On November 12, 2008, a Beech King Air 100 made an unintentional gear-up landing at Stony Rapids, Sask. Both crew members were uninjured. However, the aircraft sustained substantial damage to the flaps, propellers, and aircraft underside. TSB File A08C0234.

looks like this kind of thing happens way too often. A person would think with so many clues that this kind of thing should never happen-- 2 pilots, throttle warning system, flap warning system, a checklist, the three bright green lights and a big gear handle with an up and down.

[Pratt X 3]

Looking at the pictures, it looks like a serious investigation... they even laid out a grid on the runway and taxiway!



Unless that's the way it normally is, of course. (I've flown into the International plenty of times but only at night.)

[iflyforpie]

I'm a little confused with the B100 talk, if this was a B100 the exhaust stacks would be lower and farther back. The cadors backs that up saying a straight 100 with PT6A-28. Another clue for the straight 100 is that the Pitot tubes are on the wing's where the A100's have them on the nose.

Also the big stacks sticking out of the sides of the nacelles.

Definitely a 100 or A100.

[mag check]

I wonder if the rate of gear up landings has increased since ATC stopped saying "check gear down" about 15 years ago.

[ahramin]

Whoops, sorry, definitely PT-6s. Looks like a straight 100 to me.

[Doc]

What kind of engines mounted on the aircraft are of no relevance. They are PT6's, BTW. What has me totally burned is the reaction/excuses put forward by some of you. It seems that some feel, it's totally alright to bend metal as long as nobody gets hurt. That it's just human nature to @#$! up. If you really feel that way, you have NO business putting passenger's lives in your uncaring, hands. You have NO business being a pilot. None.

[Flying Nutcracker]

Okay, Doc!

Let's not forget to take our anger management pills again... you remember what happened the last time we went down this threadtype???

They screwed up! We all know, they know, you know, I know! It is not okay. Some may say it's okay, and that's just being empathetic to those poor ( I quote) "morons" out of pure human compassion.

From a professional point of view, it is inexcuseable and a lesson to remember for all of us.

That is what you want from this isn't it??? Newsflash-analyze-point fingers and give blame-learn from it and then... a week from now... all forgotten! Several cases of this the last couple of weeks!

At least this one has pictures and a CADOR to prove our speculation right...

Off to beer-land
FN