Water Bomber Crash in Kelowna

[culver10]

I just heard the news on the radio and there was an eyewitness report who said that he saw the plane land with the gear down. It is also easy to see the gear down in the video. This Air Tractor pilot gets my “Moron of the Day” vote.

[canwhitewolf]

Witnesses to water bomber crash say the plane's landing gear was down
(CP) –
http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadi ... lxTe7BmvQA

[Jastapilot]

There's a couple of frames in that video as he turns final where you can clearly see the nose gear extended. The approach and touchdown look like a normal landing, and probably would have been close to a greaser, yet he immediately flips over. The gear was down IMO. I'm glad he survived... could have happened to anyone, eh Doc?

[VRC9170]

This Air Tractor pilot gets my “Moron of the Day” vote.

Not really, Culver10
Do you fly amphibious floats?
Can happen to anybody given then right circumstances.

[W0X0F]

This Air Tractor pilot gets my “Moron of the Day” vote.

Not really, Culver10
Do you fly amphibious floats?
Can happen to anybody given then right circumstances.

Yeah but some seem more prone than others. I think TC gave up on their amphibian Beaver 'cause those who regulate, can't.

[crazy_aviator]

Just another case where a gear warning system COULD have saved the day " Gear up for water landing " "Gear down for runway landing" Its that easy folks ,,,,,,, Forgetfulness is an integral part of human nature ,,,,, NOT having the systems to ASSIST the forgetful pilot ( everyone) in putting the gear up/down is just plain STUPID !!!

[Cat Driver]

Like I have previously said, I always ask myself where am I landing and where is my gear as I turn final be it single pilot or two pilot operations.

It has saved me landing with the gear in the wrong position twice during my career.

[North Shore]

Just another case where a gear warning system COULD have saved the day " Gear up for water landing " "Gear down for runway landing" Its that easy folks ,,,,,,, Forgetfulness is an integral part of human nature ,,,,, NOT having the systems to ASSIST the forgetful pilot ( everyone) in putting the gear up/down is just plain STUPID !!!

Talking to a friend who works at Conair - there is a warning system - predicated on the airspeed dropping below 85 kts....

[MUSICMAAN]

Shitty deal.... but to all those who think this could never, or would never happen to you.... not to mention any names "clulver10".... you're the morons.... This pilot is just another guy who made a mistake... and I'm glad he walked away from it!

MM

[Cat Driver]

I think there is a better way of learning from these accidents than labeling these pilots with descriptions such as morons.

What would be better is a clear description of what exactly caused them to land with an incorrect gear position.

That is unlikely to happen because the culture of " Lets all wait for the final report " by the authorities over rides every other channel of communication.

By the time the final report is out no one can remember the accident as there have been so many more that grab the attention of the industry for a few brief moments.

I know that none of us are totally immune to making the same mistake, however some of us are far less likely to do so due to focused discipline while driving aircraft and knowing what are the most important actions to take and double check while flying....the landing gear is right up there near the most important.

What is really puzzling is how does a two crew operation manage to do it.

I really do not understand comments like " shit happens " and " No one was hurt, it was only bent metal "

Have any of you ever considered some of that bent metal costs more than you are likely to make in many decades?

[AuxBatOn]

I think there is a better way of learning from these accidents than labeling these pilots with descriptions such as morons.

What would be better is a clear description of what exactly caused them to land with an incorrect gear position.

[...]

I know that none of us are totally immune to making the same mistake, however some of us are far less likely to do so due to focused discipline while driving aircraft and knowing what are the most important actions to take and double check while flying....the landing gear is right up there near the most important.

I never tought I'd say that Cat, but I totally agree with you.

[Puddle Jumper]

I really really hope this wasn't a gear issue.

Hey! Doesn't Doc fly a fireboss?

Where is Doc!!!???

[crazy_aviator]

Talking to a friend who works at Conair - there is a warning system - predicated on the airspeed dropping below 85 kts....

Great !! #1 , Does it work, #2 Does the pilot wear headsets and listens to the prompts #3 is the volume turned up enough to jar the pilot into thinking of what is being said etc etc ,,,,,

[Widow]

I'd like to know how tired the pilot may have been - out there fighting fires, which has to be extremely stressful, etc.

Shit happens, sure, but why? Would be nice to get a prelim from the TSB, rather than waiting for the final report (always assuming a Class 3 investigation).

[snoopy]

North Shore wrote: "Talking to a friend who works at Conair - there is a warning system - predicated on the airspeed dropping below 85 kts...."

Crazy Aviator wrote: "Great !! #1 , Does it work, #2 Does the pilot wear headsets and listens to the prompts #3 is the volume turned up enough to jar the pilot into thinking of what is being said etc etc ,,,,,"

Yes it works, although if it is the same system installed on the Whiplines on the DHC2-T, it can be cancelled at the push of a button. If the airspeed doesn't come up above the benchmark speed again, the warning will not re-arm. This can be useful when doing low level survey, but deadly if you forget to re-arm the system (ie you land from the lower airspeed). Also, a mechanic can adjust the speed at which the system arms, and deploys.

Personally, I thought the addition of the verbal warning system a major improvement over not having one, although a bit of refining could make it better.

Don't know about headsets or individual pilots' radio practices, but the warning is reasonably loud (although some are quite distorted) unless a person is being inundated with external communication/noise/distraction.

Kirsten B.

[beaverbob]

Here is how it works.
All Wipline amphibious floats have and audible gear warning system. It is connected to the audio panel and the volume is not adjustable by the pilot. The volume may be adjusted by maintenance on the unit which is behind the panel and not accessible in flight.
The warning is designed to provide an audible statement of gear position whenever the airspeed is reduced to a predetermined setting, according to the aircraft requirements.
On a Beaver at about 80 MPH the gear indicator states:
"Gear is up for a runway landing" or "Gear is down for a water landing"

It is very repetitive will not quit on its own until the pilot pushes a red button to stop it.


Question to be answered is. How slow does one pick up the water on the fireboss water bomber?

Bob

[Flybaby]

On a Beaver at about 80 MPH the gear indicator states:
"Gear is up for a runway landing" or "Gear is down for a water landing"
Bob

Sorry to nitpick but isn't that the other way around:
"Gear is up for a water landing" or "Gear is down for a runway landing"

[beaverbob]

On a Beaver at about 80 MPH the gear indicator states:
"Gear is up for a runway landing" or "Gear is down for a water landing"
Bob

Sorry to nitpick but isn't that the other way around:
"Gear is up for a water landing" or "Gear is down for a runway landing"

O my God, I guess I forgot to proof read!
Bob

[NWONT]

Culver10, I think we would all like to know the extent of your flying and water-bombing experience to post an idiotic comment like that based on the amount of information thats been disclosed so far. This accident happened about noon. When I worked large fires for the BC Forest Service they like to get in the air at daybreak. This could have been his third flight of the day. Obviously it was his first scoop of this flight. How close was the lake to the departure airport? How many items on his after take-off and before scoop check list? How many radio freqs is he monitoring? How many days has he been flying long hours in thirty degree temps or higher? In a single pilot aircraft all these things create a very stressful and dangerous situation. I've never flown a Fireboss but a Twin Otter can keep you busy. If you have never worked fires in the mountains you can't possibly imagine how wild the turbulence can become. We are listening Culver, tell us how you consider yourself qualified to make that statement.

[NWONT]

Another point of interest. There is a land-sea switch. If you lift off an airport and go for a scoop and got distracted and didn't select the switch to sea, you will not get a warning when going into the water. If the pickup area can be right beside the airport. So you're talking to ATC, the bird-dog and possibly the fire center while completing your check lists. You are also watching for other bombers, helicopters, ground troops and weekend warriors.

[iflyforpie]

Wonder if any of the people who say 'moron' have landed with the water rudders down?

[double doors]

every single member of this board would be excessively priviliged to share the career, cockpit, and/or friendship of the pilot in question.


this culver obviously does not have 1 ounce professional experience

[fire flyer]

This guy you are all talking about, and obviously know so little about, is a stand up fellow above all else. He has more time reversing Twin Otters than most people have total time. Aside from being an extremely competent and considerate pilot, he is a true gentleman and has the admiration of all his co-workers bar none. Even considering this event I wish I had half the talent and a tenth of the respect from my peers as this man. We are privileged to call him friend.

FF

[AuxBatOn]

Apparently, it has nothing to do. According to people like culver and Doc, he's a moron. Period.

[Cat Driver]

I often wonder why I keep posting on this forum, it can't be because the quality of some of the members here is improving.

This pilot has just had a life altering experience happen to him and came very close to losing his life because he made a mistake.

Who ever you are you have my deepest sympathy because I have been there and almost made the same mistake twice due to multiple distractions during a critical phase of flight.

What we need is to be able to understand what led to this mistake and maybe find one or more issues that led to it so as to learn from it.

The accident has happened and nothing will change that fact.

Even though it is traumatic for the pilot involved maybe with time he will be able to look at it in a different mindset after the shock has worn off and share what he can remember with us so we can possibly learn something from this.

Anyhow who ever you are I understand and can only feel compassion for you at this point in time. Remember these things are not the end of everything even though they seem to be at the time.

. E.