Air Transat Incident

Bede · Post by **Bede** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 8:59 pm

I have a great amount of respect for Air Transat. They have been around longer than most airlines in Canada, a stayed under the radar.

This is odd though:

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national ... 50306.html

Part of the rudder fell off???

Tango01 · Post by **Tango01** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 11:08 pm

"Airbus and shit rudders go together like horse & carriage" I should make a song on this...

T01

marquisman · Post by **marquisman** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 6:54 am

We were in Varadero yesterday and the plane was sitting on the ramp. Almost the entire rudder was missing and the small piece that was still there looked like it had been ripped off.

peeelot · Post by **peeelot** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 7:05 am

Can you say AA out of New York. I guess it was a good idea to get rid of the 757 and use the airbus. There is a reason why airbus is less expensive then boeing.

Canus Chinookus · Post by **Canus Chinookus** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 8:58 am

30 minutes into the flight would put them over florida wouldn't it? Why didn't they land there?

Donald · Post by **Donald** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 9:17 am

Take a look at jetthrust.com in the general aviation discussion section there are photos. Yikes!

C-150Pilot · Post by **C-150Pilot** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 9:33 am

Direct link?

Cargodog · Post by **Cargodog** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 9:33 am

I have the photos, but can't find them on Jetthrust... Went to the forum and only a question on the issue.

CD · Post by CD » Mon Mar 07, 2005 9:34 am

JT.com - Air Transat Rudder Failure Photos

C-150Pilot · Post by **C-150Pilot** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 9:36 am

I cant see the pics for some reason

Donald · Post by **Donald** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 9:37 am

You must be logged in to the site to view photos.

C-150Pilot · Post by **C-150Pilot** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 9:40 am

Can u post them here plz

Cargodog · Post by **Cargodog** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 9:46 am

Ah, thx.

Same shots that I have, except there are 10 (all basically the same, just different angles/magnification).

J31 · Post by **J31** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 10:55 am

A small piece missing ?????? The whole rudder is gone! TC better get serious about this one!

Canus Chinookus · Post by **Canus Chinookus** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 11:45 am

OMFG! Good job on the crew getting it back on the ground in one piece. Thank GAWD the vertical stab stayed on, or it would have been another new york

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 12:02 pm

Looks like a flutter episode, I wonder what started it?

The Dude · Post by **The Dude** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 1:00 pm

sherlock · Post by **sherlock** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 2:24 pm

to answer your question canus chinookus...
It is against american law to fly to or from cuba directly.
regardless of the nationality of the aircraft registration an aircraft flying directly from cuba and landing in the u.s. is subject to siezure and the pilots/crew detained on immigration violations. Emergencies not withstanding. That's why they returned to cuba rather then landing in Florida.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 4:20 pm

True, we landed in San Juan Puerto Rico with an engine problem in 1999 and even though we had declared an emergency and were under ATC control as soon as we were parked we were taken into the Customs , immigration and whd a devil of a time getting our airplane released. Also my two other crew members were British and were detained for being on U.S. soil without a Visa...

..big problems and cost mucho dollars to fix....so declaring an emergency means nothing to U.S. customs, immigration.

Cat

EI-EIO · Post by **EI-EIO** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 6:44 pm

Any US citizens on board would have been screwed regardless of what happened to the plane - I doubt if the US would have been able to get away with doing more than slapping the wrist of a C-reg in the current climate?

As for the rudder - Concorde used to lose 'em all the time

Vickers vanguard · Post by **Vickers vanguard** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 7:45 pm

peeelot wrote:Can you say AA out of New York. I guess it was a good idea to get rid of the 757 and use the airbus. There is a reason why airbus is less expensive then boeing.

.....that's a stupid comment ! no hard feelings peelot ! what the AA accident has to do with this ?????.........nothing ! zero ! nada !!!!

Cat has a point when he mentioned flutter !!!!

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 8:09 pm

Normally I am hesitant to comment on aviation incidents before the investigations are complete.

However in this case there was no loss of life and the airplane is safe back on the ground.

I have worked at Airbus and flew with one of their top test pilots for many hours. We discussed many of the problems that are part of test flying.

As soon as I saw the delamination pattern in the few scraps of rudder that is left my first thought was flutter would be the most likely cause for such total failure of a control surface....what caused it of course is the question...loose rudder hinge attachment?..I don't relly know. I wonder what the CVR has on it ?

Anyhow I am only speculating and could be way off base here.

Good job of getting the thing back on the runway guys!!!

Cat

oldncold · Post by **oldncold** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 9:46 pm

Shortly after 911 an airbus 310 crashed in newjersey not a good scene.
In 2003 an interim report hypothsized that the rudder due to input from the crew exceeded its design tolerances in a wake turbulence encounter
(a 747 ahad departed 2 min earlier)causing the aircraft in question to break apart. The report also made some interesting notes that suggested
that the certification processes needed to be updated for composite flight controls.Also the aircraft had had a tail strike that was repaired in accordance with airbus. Training manuals needed to be improved.

Of course the report sent the lawyers into a feeding frenzy. For the families this was bad as it gets and for the crew as well.

Somehow it appears lost in all of this that the old adage of avaition having inherent risks. It also brings to mind the slogan that we get every quarter in the mail on the safety letter "LEARN FROM THE MISTAKES OF OTHERS YOU WILL NOT LIVE LONG ENOUGH TO MAKE THEM ALL YOURSELF"

With every advance in technology there are unknowns that even the brightest could not have seen. this seems to be one of those issues.
fatigue in composites and life cycle will be come more important as aircraft continue to age and more exotic materials are used.
GOOD JOB

to the crew and hope they give you people a raise and the credit you folks deserve and not the cover the ass routine.

EI-EIO · Post by **EI-EIO** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 7:02 am

oldncold

that would be the AA A300-600R? Not a 310.

Jim la Jungle · Post by **Jim la Jungle** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 8:24 am

Hi all,

This just in...

FAA officials said that the pilots didn't declare an emergency altough Miami was ready to accept the plane (if they had declared an emergency). The crew requested Fort Lauderdale, but was refused this destination because there is no custom offcials there.
So, if they had declared an emergency they could have landed anywhere in the US.

But the crew decided to return to Cuba. This was a company decision said an AT public relation person.

I guess AT didn't want bad advertising so they returned to the land of no free speech. Save the company's image and save a few bucks. I just love this industry.

Air Transat Incident

Air Transat Incident

why no loand in florida...

air transat/food for thought