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10wYQK
PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 2:12 am 
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Same shit as last year? Been a few days straight now.Still no staff eh? WTF.

http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=44367


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IFRATC
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 4:39 pm 
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CAN'T YOU PEOPLE (PILOTS) COME UP WITH A NEW AND ORIGINAL RATIONALE FOR RESTRICTIONS. "No staff" is becoming boring. Its not even worth a rebuttal because its moronic and juvenile.... :rolleyes:

IFRATC


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. . .
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 5:03 pm 
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I don't understand your post. How is it the pilots coming up with this?

It was an interesting experiment but it's time to put the government back in charge and put the Service back in ATS.


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IFRATC
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 12:55 am 
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You are missing the point my friend. Everytime you "pilots"see notams for ACCs issued with restrictions YOU automatically think its staffing.
In YYZ there is almost ALWAYS some time of restriction in place. Its not staffing my friend its volume/capacity. One aircraft can occupy one runway at any given time.
Changing the airspace structure might alleviate some of the problem. This is not as easy as it sounds. Lots of players involved. CLE BOS MSP etc....
I am not suggesting that staffing is never a problem BUT it is NOT always the problem. Get informed before you rant like a moron thats all.

IFRATC


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IFRATC
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 12:58 am 
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Oh yeah, an interesting experiment!?! Put the government back in charge? Exactly what problem(s) would this solve? Now that is truly a moronic statement!!!

IFRATC


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sakism
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 3:45 am 
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IFRATC wrote:
You are missing the point my friend. Everytime you "pilots"see notams for ACCs issued with restrictions YOU automatically think its staffing.
In YYZ there is almost ALWAYS some time of restriction in place. Its not staffing my friend its volume/capacity. One aircraft can occupy one runway at any given time.
Changing the airspace structure might alleviate some of the problem. This is not as easy as it sounds. Lots of players involved. CLE BOS MSP etc....
I am not suggesting that staffing is never a problem BUT it is NOT always the problem. Get informed before you rant like a moron thats all.

IFRATC


Actually:

A - The one ranting seems to be you,
B - The YWG ATIS reads (more or less): "Due staff shortages, VFR not available in YWG Terminal control area. VFR traffic are to remain clear of the area. Training flights require prior approval.",
C - This happened last summer as well.

It is amazing to me that VFR traffic are not able to operate within 40 miles of Winnipeg. This is truly a lack of service and should be corrected.


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Rod
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 6:25 pm 
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I'm sure there's a lot of pilots that would love to get on the intercom and tell the passengers about his working conditions but they don't. The ATIS really isn't the place for it either. Professionalism.


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roger.roger
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 10:29 pm 
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some pilots do "What I could really use now is a coffee and a blowjob"


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adampenner
PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 3:35 am 
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This has been happening for years.
The issue is not the controllers. The sense I get is that they are doing the best they can with what they have.
Maybe NavCanada management doesn't give a rip about VFR operations, or NavCanada management is incompetent at training and retaining, or there is incentive in keeping the number of controllers limited. Or more. I don't really care why, but the issue needs to be fixed for real. Seeing that NOTAM for weeks on end is awful. We find it very frustrating and insulting to receive such poor service from NavCan.


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Jerricho
PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 6:54 pm 
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.......


Last edited by Jerricho on Thu Mar 11, 2010 1:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Easy Flyer
PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 7:31 pm 
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Jerricho wrote:
"Ok, we want IFR!"


Good idea. I wouldn't take it personally. They worked the system to get where they needed to go.
If it's unsafe to have smaller VFR traffic there and you don't want them coming in IFR either than restrict them based on MTOW.
I think the mirth you heard in their voice wasn't a "f*ck you". It was a bit of pride. Pride of getting the job done despite the obstacles they needed to overcome.
Good luck with yours.


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Braun
PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 10:33 pm 
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lol, I can just see it...

ABC requesting IFR clearance to winnipeg

ABC,roger, cleared to YWG VOR for a hold maintain 5000`thousand

Anyways, if you know about the restrictions for VFR aircraft and are planning to fly into places with restrictions just file IFR at least that way you don't create even more work for the controllers that have to create an ad-hoc flight plan for you and we know you are coming from miles out. My .2 cents.


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Jerricho
PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 10:53 pm 
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......


Last edited by Jerricho on Thu Mar 11, 2010 1:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Old Dog Flying
PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 11:02 pm 
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This same scenario happens all summer and then some at YVR for all of the same reasons. VFR is to remain clear of terminal C;ass "C" airspace which means if you want a "safe" altitude crossing the straights to Vancouver Island you are tp fly a long way out of the way and generally over a longer stretch of water.

Nav Can will not pay for overtime to fill these positions when a controller calls in sick...and maybe someone should take a look at the sick call rate on weekends; it just might be enough to prompt a MinQuire.


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Braun
PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 1:19 pm 
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NAV Canada will not pay for someone to come in if a controller calls in sick? Where did you hear this it is totally absurd! At least it is where I work, if someone calls in sick the shift manager will call everyone available on the OT list and if no one comes so be it, but they won't just let it be. Our sick days are there to be used, the company gave them to us so they need to anticipate people will use them.


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kevenv
PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 1:28 pm 
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Old Dog Flying wrote:
Nav Can will not pay for overtime to fill these positions when a controller calls in sick...


What are you basing this little gem on? Generally speaking NavCan tries to staff units/specialties to the level that is needed on any given day. If the number of bodies falls below that level (it is a hard number in each specialty), they try to hire overtime to bring it up to the minimum staffing levels. The shortages occur if no one wants to work O/T, if people are on vacation, if they are on maternity leave, if they are on care and nurturing leave and the list goes on. You can't manufacture bodies that dont exist.


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Old Dog Flying
PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 2:14 pm 
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Braun wrote:
Our sick days are there to be used, the company gave them to us so they need to anticipate people will use them.


But not abused...I've seen it all: Super Bowl Party...Call in sick. Sailing race...Call in sick. Ball game...Call in sick.

I used to defend the system as well but not when it got to the level where service was going down the drain. Safe, Orderly and Expeditious? The first two yes but the last is a joke.


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Easy Flyer
PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:32 pm 
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Jerricho wrote:
=
Respectfully Easy Flyer it's not a good idea. It's trying to play games. Why not file IFR in the first place?


Oh, sorry. Yes, file IFR for your whole trip if you got the rating and want to go to the Peg. Anyone call in sick today?


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Braun
PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 5:47 pm 
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None of your business if people call in sick or not. There is no difference in between being short staffed due to vacations or lack of employees and being short because of sick leave. It is what it is people do get sick and if you think that controllers don't do their best with what they have maybe you should apply and come see what it takes. So stop trolling


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Jerricho
PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 10:43 pm 
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......


Last edited by Jerricho on Thu Mar 11, 2010 1:50 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Easy Flyer
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 2:57 am 
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Yikes.


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SAR_YQQ
PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 2:52 am 
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I've had nothing but stellar service from the Winnipeg ACC.

We consistently pop up on their screens - make our request and always get what we want. I transited from YPG to YQT and back again today and had no issues whatsoever.

My thanks to you guys - MSTG91


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Jerricho
PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 4:34 am 
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At least somebody appreciates us.

(Thanks SAR_YYQ)


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ywgflyboy
PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 12:48 pm 
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Most of the restrictions for Winnipeg are for VFR but at some times it can be anything that isn't scheduled. If you plan on doing work in the WInnipeg TCA, it is always worth a call to the shift manager to see if their is any time available to get in. When I do my IFR work we always pre-arrange with them so that we are not interfering with the rush hour traffic coming into the area.

If you read the actual NOTAM carefully it will say without prior permission. Pick up the phone and ask, hey does any time work for you.

Exceptions to this of are course the long weekend :P I am not speculating or anything but last weekend we got a call and 3 controllers just happened to not be at work.

If all else fails, red line the plane out 30 miles then do what you want.


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Jerricho
PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 3:49 pm 
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The PPR for training slots is certainly working, and a big thank you to those folk who have moved their slots to smooth things out during the day. Unfortunately, there have been occasions where slots have been book for holds/approaches where the aircraft doesn't turn up, and we've received no notification to cancel. That's a slot somebody else could have used, or freed up a time that was more beneficial to somebody who was asked to move to another time.

Can I also give a friendly reminder that simply calling/faxing the CSM at the ACC IS NOT the same as filing a flight plan. Confusion has occurred a few times where a trainer has pitched up telling us they have approval, yet hasn't filed a flight plan and expecting IFR service and alerting.


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