So let it be said....handout! Don't get me wrong you need it now and alot of brothers and sisters are going to keep flying which is great but......you shouldn't have needed it in the first place...f***** Milton and his leeching. How much did ACE LEND you again? What a f***** joke and now all the taxpayers in Canada are paying for it and they don't even know the whole truth.
rant over
AT
How about that 250
Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore, I WAS Birddog
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Amateur Turbines
- Rank 2
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tonysoprano
- Rank 10
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Re: How about that 250
So why don't you take your beef up with Milton? What's AC got to do with it?
Re: How about that 250
On the upside...If Robert Milton didn't split the other companies off, they wouldn't have been around to lend AC some of the cash.
Dare I say it, maybe there was method to the madness.
Dare I say it, maybe there was method to the madness.
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Brick Head
- Rank 8
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Re: How about that 250
The cash would be on hand wouldn't it.Smitty wrote:On the upside...If Robert Milton didn't split the other companies off, they wouldn't have been around to lend AC some of the cash.
Dare I say it, maybe there was method to the madness.
But you are right. There is a method to the madness. It is about transforming a bloated company formed before deregulation into something that can survive post deregulation. Canadian labor laws make changes difficult even with the use of CCAA or even liquidation that still provide followership rights.
The method?
1.)Strip it. So it can't fall back on a cushion during tough times.
2.)Make it stand on its own stripped. Force the operation to cut costs to profitability or fail.
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Amateur Turbines
- Rank 2
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- Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:41 pm
Re: How about that 250
Or take 250 mil from all the taxpayers 
Of course my beef is with Milton who at the time was the Chairman of the BOD. Disgraceful. I have never written to an MP before but he received an email from me yesterday regarding the gruesome truth that is now AC, a stripped down corporation worth less than a quarter of it's former self.
These changes in culture at AC that I read on the other post are encouraging however did it really have to require a life or death situation for your corporation in order to facilitate? I don't think so. There have needed to to be changes at AC for a very long time and hopefully CR can pull these off for the long term. I'm just pissed off that you have to use my money to do it.
Of course my beef is with Milton who at the time was the Chairman of the BOD. Disgraceful. I have never written to an MP before but he received an email from me yesterday regarding the gruesome truth that is now AC, a stripped down corporation worth less than a quarter of it's former self.
These changes in culture at AC that I read on the other post are encouraging however did it really have to require a life or death situation for your corporation in order to facilitate? I don't think so. There have needed to to be changes at AC for a very long time and hopefully CR can pull these off for the long term. I'm just pissed off that you have to use my money to do it.
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tonysoprano
- Rank 10
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- Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2005 7:01 pm
Re: How about that 250
....if it makes you feel any better, it's my money too. If and when AC cannot repay the LOAN, then you will have a legitimate argument. Until then, slurp back some of that famous koolaid and relax!!
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Brick Head
- Rank 8
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- Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 4:37 pm
Re: How about that 250
Amateur Turbines,
Your not going to find an argument here about what ACE did to AC. But I think you will also find, as we have, no one in gov't who really cares. Or if they do it is only because it is back on their lap. To my knowledge I haven't seen anything in the way of legislation to prevent it from happening again.
If the wrong people get a hold of a public company, it can't be stopped. That is just the way it is. Lets say a company doesn't have any stock appreciation for a long time. Good company, profitable but the stock is stagnant. Lets say the investors become impatient because they have been getting nothing. Along comes someone who says he has a way to make investors money by breaking up the company. Guess what shareholders will vote to do. Remember they own it. They can do anything they please with it.
As for the LOAN, as tony points out, unless the loan goes into default the gov't makes money.
Your not going to find an argument here about what ACE did to AC. But I think you will also find, as we have, no one in gov't who really cares. Or if they do it is only because it is back on their lap. To my knowledge I haven't seen anything in the way of legislation to prevent it from happening again.
If the wrong people get a hold of a public company, it can't be stopped. That is just the way it is. Lets say a company doesn't have any stock appreciation for a long time. Good company, profitable but the stock is stagnant. Lets say the investors become impatient because they have been getting nothing. Along comes someone who says he has a way to make investors money by breaking up the company. Guess what shareholders will vote to do. Remember they own it. They can do anything they please with it.
As for the LOAN, as tony points out, unless the loan goes into default the gov't makes money.
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the original tony
- Rank 4
- Posts: 236
- Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 8:18 pm
Re: How about that 250
Let me get this straight, AC gets a loan that for all purposes IS repayable in theory and actuality. Nothing but f%^ing complaining.
GM and Chrysler get BILLIONS with workers who have the skills of..............let's see, my uncle worked there, grandfather worked there so geez i must work there too and make a lot of f'ing money and do nothing.
Get off your high horse and get a life. 250m is what compared to the billions now and past this auto sector has been given?
Let it die, or fend for itself. Who needs a new car every week? But u can bet your last buck that if you need to travel from Nfld to BC by tomorrow you wont be taking that relaible billion dollar GM car when you can fly that useless money sucking airline for a couple of hundred dollars.
Tony
GM and Chrysler get BILLIONS with workers who have the skills of..............let's see, my uncle worked there, grandfather worked there so geez i must work there too and make a lot of f'ing money and do nothing.
Get off your high horse and get a life. 250m is what compared to the billions now and past this auto sector has been given?
Let it die, or fend for itself. Who needs a new car every week? But u can bet your last buck that if you need to travel from Nfld to BC by tomorrow you wont be taking that relaible billion dollar GM car when you can fly that useless money sucking airline for a couple of hundred dollars.
Tony
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Jaques Strappe
- Rank (9)
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Re: How about that 250
AT......thanks for writing to your MP. I for one, appreciate that you took the time and wish each and every taxpayer would do the same. Maybe then, the government will realize what a blood sucking thief Milton really is. Maybe they already know this, it was after all, the Liberal government who tried to help their buddy Gerry at Onex. So you can thank the previous Liberal government for starting this whole thing by using Air Canada as a bailout vehicle for Canadian, all the while trying to line the pockets of a prominent Liberal supporter. Unfortunately, their takeover plan failed and they lined the pockets of Milton instead.Amateur Turbines wrote:Or take 250 mil from all the taxpayers
Of course my beef is with Milton who at the time was the Chairman of the BOD. Disgraceful. I have never written to an MP before but he received an email from me yesterday regarding the gruesome truth that is now AC, a stripped down corporation worth less than a quarter of it's former self.
These changes in culture at AC that I read on the other post are encouraging however did it really have to require a life or death situation for your corporation in order to facilitate? I don't think so. There have needed to to be changes at AC for a very long time and hopefully CR can pull these off for the long term. I'm just pissed off that you have to use my money to do it.
Joe Q Taxpayer conveniently seems to forget that.
Standby for new atis message
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wallypilot
- Rank (9)
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- Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2004 9:59 pm
- Location: The Best Coast
Re: How about that 250
There is often a difference between what is legal and what is "right". Just because the law can't stop something from happening doesn't mean it should happen. It's legalized theft, and regulations should be developed to prevent this kind of thing from happening in the future. I am an avid investor myself, but I still think there are some serious flaws in the model that represents shareholder wealth as the most important component to managing a corporation. For decades "maximizing shareholder value" has been the driving force in governing corporations. IMHO, this philosophy is misguided.Brick Head wrote:Amateur Turbines,
If the wrong people get a hold of a public company, it can't be stopped. That is just the way it is. Lets say a company doesn't have any stock appreciation for a long time. Good company, profitable but the stock is stagnant. Lets say the investors become impatient because they have been getting nothing. Along comes someone who says he has a way to make investors money by breaking up the company. Guess what shareholders will vote to do. Remember they own it. They can do anything they please with it.
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ScudRunner
- Rank 11
- Posts: 3239
- Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:58 am
Re: How about that 250
So the people of Canada give AC back 250 million, if the government allowed AC to go tits up yes in due time a new airline would emerge but best to let the cash cow for Ottawa and other governments stick around to milk, just think of it as a tax refund to Air Canada.
