North Cariboo Update

[Be20Captain]

Just wondering how North Cariboo is doing these days in light of the Edmonton incident.
Has there been a decrease in business? How is the morale of staff?

[Mad Flying Ace]

heard through the grapevine that they lost their Contrail "certification" because of the gear up.

Best of luck to all there.

MFA

[Doc]

Is it not time YET, for all you pussy, ass kissing super WIMP companies to get together, stand on your hind feet, and tell the folks at CONTRAIL to go @#$! themselves????
Tell your customers, as a group, you no longer subscribe to the dictatorship that is CONTRAIL! If they don't like it....they can bloody well WALK!!
BUT.......there's always a "but"....you all have to be together on this!
Can you do this? Yes.
Will you? No.
Why? Because you have no guts! None. Nil. Nada. Zilch.
Truth

[SeptRepair]

Ok I will bite, can someone explain what this CONTRAIL thing is all about?

[Tuk U]

Is it not time YET, for all you pussy, ass kissing super WIMP companies to get together, stand on your hind feet, and tell the folks at CONTRAIL to go @#$! themselves????
Tell your customers, as a group, you no longer subscribe to the dictatorship that is CONTRAIL! If they don't like it....they can bloody well WALK!!
BUT.......there's always a "but"....you all have to be together on this!
Can you do this? Yes.
Will you? No.
Why? Because you have no guts! None. Nil. Nada. Zilch.
Truth

Now that is the very most sensible statement I have ever read on any forum yet, I sure would love to see that waayyyy overdue task. someone from the operators group should take this serious, I stood up to that little slimeball years ago and it never hurt me. For the most part the companies that he audits for are well aware of this shitheads attitude.

[Ogee]

Is it not time YET, for all you pussy, ass kissing super WIMP companies to get together, stand on your hind feet, and tell the folks at CONTRAIL to go @#$! themselves????
Tell your customers, as a group, you no longer subscribe to the dictatorship that is CONTRAIL! If they don't like it....they can bloody well WALK!!
BUT.......there's always a "but"....you all have to be together on this!
Can you do this? Yes.
Will you? No.
Why? Because you have no guts! None. Nil. Nada. Zilch.
Truth

How did that guy ever convince the oil companies that he was someone to advise them on aviation safety. That baffles me.

Excellent post, Doc.

[Strega]

Why not just put the spinny things down?

[KISS_MY_TCAS]

Why not just put the spinny things down?

You want to kill your sister?

[Ray-Ban]

I have been witness to a CP forge a contrail questionnaire about pilots ever been involved in an accident. Two pilots were involved in accidents but were put down as accident free. It doesn't seem like contrail follows up on the received information from companies.

100% Doc!!!!!!

[swordfish]

Is it not time YET, for all you pussy, ass kissing super WIMP companies to get together, stand on your hind feet, and tell the folks at CONTRAIL to go @#$! themselves????
Tell your customers, as a group, you no longer subscribe to the dictatorship that is CONTRAIL! If they don't like it....they can bloody well WALK!!
BUT.......there's always a "but"....you all have to be together on this!
Can you do this? Yes.
Will you? No.
Why? Because you have no guts! None. Nil. Nada. Zilch.
Truth

How did that guy ever convince the oil companies that he was someone to advise them on aviation safety. That baffles me.

Excellent post, Doc.

I agree totally with you Doc. The way 1 or 2 guys can pretty well run the 703/704 industry in Alberta is mind-boggling. Not to mention the absurd time, experience, & training requirements they impose on operators. AND the operators put up with their bullshit.

[Conquest Driver]

This thread is going to vanish in 5...4...3...2...1...

[Doc]

This thread is going to vanish in 5...4...3...2...1...

No, it's a subject that's long over due to be discussed. I've never understood how these companies even answer their phones when this CONTRAIL dude calls.
These companies are puppets on a string. Nothing more.

[privateer]

Actually DOC there are lots of oil companies that have there own requirements. Believe it or not they are higher than Contrail. There are even some that are lower than Contrail.

[ScudRunner]

Actually DOC there are lots of oil companies that have there own requirements. Believe it or not they are higher than Contrail. There are even some that are lower than Contrail.

You are correct.

The other thing I always find interesting is Oil Company XYZ subscribes to Contrails and then ABC Air Charters is unable to do a charter because they do not have a crews available, XYZ Oil then get a hold of CMA and Charter them with a crew that doesn't even come close to Contrails.

[Doc]

Actually DOC there are lots of oil companies that have there own requirements. Believe it or not they are higher than Contrail. There are even some that are lower than Contrail.

You are correct.

The other thing I always find interesting is Oil Company XYZ subscribes to Contrails and then ABC Air Charters is unable to do a charter because they do not have a crews available, XYZ Oil then get a hold of CMA and Charter them with a crew that doesn't even come close to Contrails.

And they will all fly on Jazz, I'm thinking.....some pretty low time chaps in the right seats at Jazz? But that's Okay. Double/triple standard? Methinks so.

[Ogee]

Actually DOC there are lots of oil companies that have there own requirements. Believe it or not they are higher than Contrail. There are even some that are lower than Contrail.

You are correct.

The other thing I always find interesting is Oil Company XYZ subscribes to Contrails and then ABC Air Charters is unable to do a charter because they do not have a crews available, XYZ Oil then get a hold of CMA and Charter them with a crew that doesn't even come close to Contrails.

And they will all fly on Jazz, I'm thinking.....some pretty low time chaps in the right seats at Jazz? But that's Okay. Double/triple standard? Methinks so.

I find it hard to accept that the future of at least Alberta's energy reserves is dependent on senior executives of oil companies who fail to see through this Contrail guy's schtick. It basically sums up to the guy saying the government of Canada is incompetent in terms of ensuring aviation safety and therefore you need me to tell you what safe aviation is. And his idea is, wait for it, set absurd and meaningless experience requirements and then put in place an audit system which guarantees him a job for life. We depend on people stupid enought to fall for that to find our future oil reserves?

I guess the lingering question is...why doesn't the federal government replace Transport Canada with the Contrail guy?

It must be a full time job for him to keep this farce going.

[Doc]

The "contrail guy" and TC have nothing to do with each other. Never have had. And, it's not all the oil company's fault. The fault is with the operators. Stand together and "fire" the "contrail guy" and the oil companies will have no choice than to fly with these companies, sans "contrail guy".......pretty easy fix, really.

[ScudRunner]

But this does not consider the fact that this is aviation and capitalism, there will always be one company that will break from the pack and say "we will do it".

[sky's the limit]

Stand together and "fire" the "contrail guy" and the oil companies will have no choice than to fly with these companies, sans "contrail guy".......pretty easy fix, really.

I knew you were a closet Socialist.....



I would however submit that this is not just a one sided, Contrail is all wrong situation - there is some rhyme to the reason. As discussed many times here, there is a scary lack of standards in aviation these days, and many of the traditional ladder climbing jobs that weeded out the incompetent are gone leaving the much talked about Instructor, Co-joe, Capt progression sometimes with alarmingly little depth or breadth in experience or development of decision making skills. Mandating often inflated hour requirements is simply the easy way around much of this, hence Contrail.

If we are going to oust Contrail and the other companies springing up all over the place in its image, we need to have a discussion on the quality of the pilots we produce these days who fly these applications. From initial training to continuing development of skills, we are sorely lacking in many departments in Canada.

Just a thought.

stl

[Be20Captain]

Well this is off topic pretty quickly. Does this mean that North Cariboo has lost it's Contrail approval?

On a side note. Contrail is there to give large (Canadian) oil & gas companies the idea of heightened safety - Whether many of you agree or not. While Contrail always seems to take a fair bit of criticism on this board, companies like Shell & Conoco Phillips set their own standards far beyond the "Contrail standard." It not only includes pilot experience, but other aircraft and operational requirements as well. The desire for higher standards comes from other places as well - Take a look at some of the aviation publications and recommendations drafted by the International Association of Oil and Gas Producers.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but this site sometimes seems to be one sided and narrow minded often in one's self interest.

[turbo-prop]

Doc maybe you should find more info before you go flapping your gums. Unless your a low timer contrail is good, it gets the guys with experience more money and a pretty decent schedule ( depending on company) as well as no pressure to do stupid thing like go when you probably shouldn't.

[Ogee]

Doc maybe you should find more info before you go flapping your gums. Unless your a low timer contrail is good, it gets the guys with experience more money and a pretty decent schedule ( depending on company) as well as no pressure to do stupid thing like go when you probably shouldn't.

Contrail did that? It's kind of like a pilots' union? I thought it was a guy masquerading as a safety expert.

[Optimus Prime]

Doc maybe you should find more info before you go flapping your gums. Unless your a low timer contrail is good, it gets the guys with experience more money and a pretty decent schedule ( depending on company) as well as no pressure to do stupid thing like go when you probably shouldn't.

Contrail is NOT good! With the requirements he's imposed it's impossible to become a high timer, or at least a high timer with any captain time. Nobody can make the move to left seat because you need 1000hrs pic before you're qualified as a "Contrail Captain". So you have guys sitting in the right seat with 2500hrs, all sic.

P.S. Why so defensive? You wouldn't happen to be the "one" we're talking about would you?

[Doc]

Doc maybe you should find more info before you go flapping your gums. Unless your a low timer contrail is good, it gets the guys with experience more money and a pretty decent schedule ( depending on company) as well as no pressure to do stupid thing like go when you probably shouldn't.

So, you want a third party telling your company who they can and can't hire/use as crew? You feel you need that so you won't feel "pressure" to do something "stupid"? We really are "dumbing down" this industry, aren't we? I think you should know enough NOT to do something stupid all by yourself.....???

[Chuck Ellsworth]

I think you should know enough NOT to do something stupid all by yourself.....???